Freedom or Order?

[Kburjr]

The natural state of humans is anarchy.
Society is forced order.

Make your argument for either.

 

[batchaps4me]

Why is it an either/or?

 

[Me]

Is the natural state of humans anarchy?

I thought part of what has made us survive and thrive had been being part of a community?

 

[Deep Dish Pizza Goat]

Is the natural state of humans anarchy?

I thought part of what has made us survive and thrive had been being part of a community?

I see you've just met @Kburjr ...

 

[Kburjr]

Is the natural state of humans anarchy?

I thought part of what has made us survive and thrive had been being part of a community?

I was reading some excerpts from Thomas Hobbes Leviathan. The question arises from that. Asked another way, can order only be accomplished by force?

 

[Me]

I was reading some excerpts from Thomas Hobbes Leviathan. The question arises from that. Asked another way, can order only be accomplished by force?

Only? I don't think so. Sometimes (oftentimes, maybe) force is necessary.

 

[Kburjr]

Only? I don't think so. Sometimes (oftentimes, maybe) force is necessary.

Can you give me an example of order without force?

 

[Me]

Can you give me an example of order without force?

On what scale?

 

[Kburjr]

Only? I don't think so. Sometimes (oftentimes, maybe) force is necessary.

Playing the Devil's advocate here. Looking for ideas.

 

[Deep Dish Pizza Goat]

Can you give me an example of order without force?

Words. Be it text or speech.

Those things are usually attempted first before force.

 

[Kburjr]

On what scale?

Any scale you wish. Community comes from forced order. We conform to that order in order to live in the community.

 

[Deep Dish Pizza Goat]

Any scale you wish. Community comes from forced order. We conform to that order in order to live in the community.

Community isn't forced order. It's an understanding/agreement.

 

[Me]

Any scale you wish. Community comes from forced order. We conform to that order in order to live in the community.

Yeah, I looked back, and reread, since I got hung up on "force" being negative. "Forced order" could include positive reinforcement.

 

[Kburjr]

Words. Be it text or speech.

Those things are usually attempted first before force.

Then, all members of the community are forced to use the language that those in power use.

 

[Deep Dish Pizza Goat]

Then, all members of the community are forced to use the language that those in power use.

No they aren't.

They can leave.

 

[Kburjr]

No they aren't.

They can leave.

And thus they are not part of the community.

 

[Kburjr]

No they aren't.

They can leave.

I get your argument.

 

[Deep Dish Pizza Goat]

And thus they are not part of the community.

Yes and it has nothing to do with force. You either agree to the social understanding or you leave and do your own little thing. It's pretty simple.

 

[Deep Dish Pizza Goat]

We're all trying to win the baseball game.
You decide to field a ball and then turn around and toss it over the fence.
You'll be off the team the next day.

Has nothing to do with force.

 

[Kburjr]

Yes and it has nothing to do with force. You either agree to the social understanding or you leave and do your own little thing. It's pretty simple.

Isn't that a definition of anarchy?