Freedom or Order?

Flavortown Tebow said:
Correct. Because they didn't hold up their end of the agreement to try and win the game.

The agreement came before the force.
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And before the agreement came agreeing to the goal, winning the game. Would you agre that the players surrender power to the manager?
 
Kburjr said:
And before the agreement came agreeing to the goal, winning the game. Would you agre that the players surrender power to the manager?
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No, because they dont have to play ball. They can knit blankets by themselves instead.
 
Kburjr said:
I agree that language comes before community. But, language doesn't make the change, force does.
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Not sure I can get on board with that.

If the baseball team talks it out and decides to become the softball team and play by those rules, force isn't necessary.

If you are a baseball player who then doesn't want to play softball, you're free to find another baseball team. No one is making you play softball.
 
Flavortown Tebow said:
Not sure I can get on board with that.

If the baseball team talks it out and decides to become the softball team and play by those rules, force isn't necessary.

If you are a baseball player who then doesn't want to play softball, you're free to find another baseball team. No one is making you play softball.
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Community doesn't give you that option. You are born a baseball player and a baseball player you will be or we will punish you.
 
Kburjr said:
Community doesn't give you that option. You are born a baseball player and a baseball player you will be or we will punish you.
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the problem is that you are arguing semantics....

Societal norms are defined by the society... if you choose to do anything outside of the norm, you will be forced to conform, or a change in the society norm will be forced to happen....

But just because there is a force, that doesn't mean the person will follow it in the future....
 
7 LEGGED OCTOPUS said:
the problem is that you are arguing semantics....

Societal norms are defined by the society... if you choose to do anything outside of the norm, you will be forced to conform, or a change in the society norm will be forced to happen....

But just because there is a force, that doesn't mean the person will follow it in the future....
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Am I? A society can be formed by force or it can be destroyed by force.

Also, are you saying that society either forces you to conform ir place you outside society? That there is no place for non-normative individuals in society?
 
Kburjr said:
Am I? A society can be formed by force or it can be destroyed by force.

Also, are you saying that society either forces you to conform ir place you outside society? That there is no place for non-normative individuals in society?
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No, I am saying that either a society forces conformity or it evolves to accept non-normative behaviour.
But anything not normal will always be labeled that way and it’s human nature to be unaccepting towards anything different.

so in reality society will always ask for conformity. It will force it one way or another. But the more civilized a society is the more accepting it is to differences.

but once labels are made, society can not entirely accept it. And it will push its citizens to be MORE normal. Always.
 
7 LEGGED OCTOPUS said:
the problem is that you are arguing semantics....

Societal norms are defined by the society... if you choose to do anything outside of the norm, you will be forced to conform, or a change in the society norm will be forced to happen....

But just because there is a force, that doesn't mean the person will follow it in the future....
Click to expand...

Actually that is a very coherent argument.
 
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