Zelenskyy is urging NATO for more support. How much “support” should NATO give?

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The US has refused to enforce a no fly zone in Ukraine despite pleas for one from Zelenskyy. They also refused to be an intermediary in supply some planes from Poland. Were these the right decisions? Should the US be doing more?
 
FYI… @HammerDown and @fordman84 have approved the starting of what I’ll call “current event” threads. If they clutter the locker room page they may get moved to another board but for now they will be here. These threads are different than what is in the PF. Here, there’s no Team Red or Team Blue talk. Rather, it’s a discussion about news topics without a political slant. Those types of discussions will still be in the PF. These are more news based rather than politically based. Ford will monitor the threads and remove posts that get too “spirited”.

So, feel free to start news related topics with the above guidelines in mind.
 
IMO, NATO should not intervene militarily at this time. The world has organized a wide variety of sanctions against Russia. The weakness of employing a sanctions strategy is they need time in in order to be felt. That time unfortunately is coming at the expense of Ukraine having to fight to preserve its country. While military actions offer more “immediate” results they too come at a price… the potential for a world war.

US intelligence is already warning that Russia is planning cyber attacks. Some companies have already detected “probing scans” which precede these types of attacks so this isn’t theory. IMO NATO need to hold the course and continue its strategy of supporting Ukraine with defensive weapons. As difficult as it is, NATO can’t be drawn into this fight. They can continue to ratchet up the sanctions and press the war crimes they are now publicly saying are taking place. It’s certainly not an ideal strategy but IMO it’s the best option from a list of “bad” options.
 
IMO, NATO should not intervene militarily at this time. The world has organized a wide variety of sanctions against Russia. The weakness of employing a sanctions strategy is they need time in in order to be felt. That time unfortunately is coming at the expense of Ukraine having to fight to preserve its country. While military actions offer more “immediate” results they too come at a price… the potential for a world war.

US intelligence is already warning that Russia is planning cyber attacks. Some companies have already detected “probing scans” which precede these types of attacks so this isn’t theory. IMO NATO need to hold the course and continue its strategy of supporting Ukraine with defensive weapons. As difficult as it is, NATO can’t be drawn into this fight. They can continue to ratchet up the sanctions and press the war crimes they are now publicly saying are taking place. It’s certainly not an ideal strategy but IMO it’s the best option from a list of “bad” options.

I’ve been following this one a lot. You are read on that we are all reduced to working off a list of bad options.

In a perfect world NATO should be enforcing a no fly zone at a minimal. I’m never crazy about American troops being committed to danger and taking casualties. But, again, in a perfect world NATO should have assets on the ground there pushing the Russians back.

But, it’s not a perfect world. It’s ugly and filled with danger. Danger of a war that envelops the world, being that this a just the kind of world “flash point” that can create such a disaster. Most importantly….danger of nuclear war.

I grew up under this spectre. Anyone that did remembers the relief as this prospect really started to fade in the early 90s. But now I feel it more strongly as a potential fear and outcome than I have since the 80s.

We learned after the Cold War that the narrative of the Soviet’s always looking for an opening to attack and win wasn’t true. They were honestly as petrified at the idea as the rest of the world. Surely Putin is too. But, who wants to escalate and take that chance that he’s truly the mad man he’s been showing signals as?

So, it’s ugly, but this is the course that has to be taken for now. Sanctions….I don’t have a whole lot of faith in them, especially in the short term. But, we do need to do them and send the weapons that are helping he Ukrainians hold.

One thing I’m not sure I fully agree with was deny Polands request on the planes. On the surface it feels like it’s just too hesitant. But, it could also be other factors. I believe Polands ask was for some kind of pricing break on new planes from us? And maybe the contractors don’t want to do that?
 
If NATO is gonna get involved beyond supplying Ukraine and sanctioning Russia, Russia needs to attack a NATO country. Until then, it’s not worth risking WW3 against a very nuclear capable country. But if Russia gets froggy and goes after a NATO country, it’s time to whip some commie ass.

But with that said, with Russia distracted with Ukraine right now, we should invade the Russian Far East through Alaska. Bet we could take a big ole chunk of resource rich land before Moscow even knew it was happening
 
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PF plz

DIAF
 
Completely out of the loop. Don’t give a shit.

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Hoping there is no WWIII.

Wife's ex husband died last night during open heart surgery. I do not want to worry about our daughter being deployed.
 
IMO, NATO should not intervene militarily at this time. The world has organized a wide variety of sanctions against Russia. The weakness of employing a sanctions strategy is they need time in in order to be felt. That time unfortunately is coming at the expense of Ukraine having to fight to preserve its country. While military actions offer more “immediate” results they too come at a price… the potential for a world war.

US intelligence is already warning that Russia is planning cyber attacks. Some companies have already detected “probing scans” which precede these types of attacks so this isn’t theory. IMO NATO need to hold the course and continue its strategy of supporting Ukraine with defensive weapons. As difficult as it is, NATO can’t be drawn into this fight. They can continue to ratchet up the sanctions and press the war crimes they are now publicly saying are taking place. It’s certainly not an ideal strategy but IMO it’s the best option from a list of “bad” options.
Agree. NATO nations are already openly supplying the Ukrainians, I think we need to stop at that. Putting NATO soldiers into Ukraine would instantly start WWIII. Putin knows the borders at this point, but as soon as NATO breaks in then all bets are off. And we know China and most likely India partner with Russia. If not for nuclear weapons it would be a good war, clean out Iran + DPRK + China + Russia + Syria. A chance to kill all our enemies. But with nukes, nope. Can't do that.
 
Agree. NATO nations are already openly supplying the Ukrainians, I think we need to stop at that. Putting NATO soldiers into Ukraine would instantly start WWIII. Putin knows the borders at this point, but as soon as NATO breaks in then all bets are off. And we know China and most likely India partner with Russia. If not for nuclear weapons it would be a good war, clean out Iran + DPRK + China + Russia + Syria. A chance to kill all our enemies. But with nukes, nope. Can't do that.
Don't forget Germany on Team Russia
 
Agree. NATO nations are already openly supplying the Ukrainians, I think we need to stop at that. Putting NATO soldiers into Ukraine would instantly start WWIII. Putin knows the borders at this point, but as soon as NATO breaks in then all bets are off. And we know China and most likely India partner with Russia. If not for nuclear weapons it would be a good war, clean out Iran + DPRK + China + Russia + Syria. A chance to kill all our enemies. But with nukes, nope. Can't do that.
Putin’s support relies upon propaganda and the narrative that Russia is a heroic underdog. NATO taking a more active role gives him a rallying cause of an enemy that could unite Russians behind him.

I sincerely doubt that the Russians pull back or stop fighting until Ukraine is thoroughly conquered. But funneling weapons and supplies to the Ukrainian people should be a top priority.
 
Can't really involve NATO forces when they're still not a part of NATO. Sucks, but that's that.

And the idea of us shooting down Russian planes in a no-fly zone is basically a declaration of war on our part. I can't go along with that for a non-Nato country, as much as I hate what's happening.
 
Ukraine is not a member of NATO. So none. Not my problem. I shouldn't have to pay for it. Our servicemen shouldn't have to die for it. Gigi needs to get over there and back up his mouth.
 
Can't really involve NATO forces when they're still not a part of NATO. Sucks, but that's that.

And the idea of us shooting down Russian planes in a no-fly zone is basically a declaration of war on our part. I can't go along with that for a non-Nato country, as much as I hate what's happening.
Also, if there is a no-fly zone and Ukrainians shoot down a Russian then they still are going to claim NATO did it. If we aren't there, then they can't claim it was us. Just keep sending the weapons and let the Ukrainian military keep kicking ass.
 
Putin’s support relies upon propaganda and the narrative that Russia is a heroic underdog. NATO taking a more active role gives him a rallying cause of an enemy that could unite Russians behind him.

I sincerely doubt that the Russians pull back or stop fighting until Ukraine is thoroughly conquered. But funneling weapons and supplies to the Ukrainian people should be a top priority.

Really good point on the propaganda win for Putin if NATO gets more involved. It’s gross and disgusting, but this is the right decision.
 
Also, if there is a no-fly zone and Ukrainians shoot down a Russian then they still are going to claim NATO did it. If we aren't there, then they can't claim it was us. Just keep sending the weapons and let the Ukrainian military keep kicking ass.

And let’s face it…..at least at this point they don’t totally need a no fly zone. They have been holding their own so far, and the Russians have been bumbling.

Read yesterday that so many Russian generals have been taken out as they went to the front to try to drum up their stalled army.

It’s all moot if Russia pours more troops in, but the Ukrainians, appropriately supplied, are holding much better than I thought they could.
 
Today the US asked that Russia be expelled from the G20. The president said that while he didn’t think this action in and of itself would change putins behavior today he did say that he believed that coordinated sustained global sanctions would have an effect.

IMO the wildcard in all this remains China. If they throw Putin a lifeline it will water down the effects of these sanctions. If however China fears economic reprisal for helping Russia from the west they may not throw Putin that lifeline. If China doesn’t come to Russia’s aid that will put tremendous pressure on Putin. This is what I’m looking for.
 
Ukraine continues to ask for help from nato. They want weapons especially tanks and fighter jets. If nato does that I’m sure Russia would not see that simply as “aid”. IMO I think NATOs response is tied to China and my post above. Maybe China is saying “if nato stays ours so will we”. If this is the case I think nato has to be careful what “aid” they give ukraine. They clearly want ukraine to be able to fight but they also want China to “stay out of it”.

Ive gotta think that the politics that are playing out here are pretty intense. IMO we as the public aren’t privy to a lot of it.
 
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