Oklahoma fans ... this won't work in the SEC

WhosYourDawggy said:
Here's the problem ... who cares if they take visits elsewhere? If they want OU, they will be there. Smart tells his recruits to take their OVs ... it's 4 other free visits for the recruits' families ... flights, hotels, whined, and dined. You can see why they do it. And I get the "don't commit until after that" argument, but that's dumb ... go ahead a commit, and we are confident we will hold you. Flipping seems to happen a lot, but if you are a good school, with good coaches, you will keep more than you don't. In the meantime, UGA continues to recruit for that position.

Also, it allows the coaches to process players in good faith. We don't require that you maintain your commitment, we may call and tell you to look elsewhere. If Venables ever processes anyone or ever recruits a player committed elsewhere, he's a POS hypocrite.
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Then don't commit until you're done being whined and dined. It's that simple
 
TaikoTiger said:
Then don't commit until you're done being whined and dined. It's that simple
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It's not that simple, at all.

In a perfect world that is what a 17, 18 year old should do. We don't live in a perfect world, so they don't do that. You can recognize reality or try to bend it to your wants and desires. Bending it to your desires doesn't work for many.

It's worked for Clemson and Dabo, but he coaches in the ACC and can afford to not have top 3 classes every year. But when OU has to play Bama, ATM, LSU, and UGA who are going to be recruiting the in top 3/5 every year, you better get generational QBs or be one hell of a coach because you are going to be behind in the talent.

Here's Clemson since 2017 with National Rank, ACC rank, and then what their rank would be in the new SEC:

Year - OV - ACC - SEC
2017 - 16 - 3rd - 8th
2018 - 7 - 1st - 4th
2019 - 10 - 1st - 8th
2020 - 3 - 1st - 3rd
2021 - 5 - 1st - 4th
2022 - 10 - 1st - 5th

Pretty much the most talent in the ACC year in and year out, but the best in the SEC would have been 3rd with some 8ths.

So, it's not simple at all. You can play the game, or not play the game. Good luck in the SEC if you don't.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Here's the problem ... who cares if they take visits elsewhere? If they want OU, they will be there. Smart tells his recruits to take their OVs ... it's 4 other free visits for the recruits' families ... flights, hotels, whined, and dined. You can see why they do it. And I get the "don't commit until after that" argument, but that's dumb ... go ahead a commit, and we are confident we will hold you. Flipping seems to happen a lot, but if you are a good school, with good coaches, you will keep more than you don't. In the meantime, UGA continues to recruit for that position.

Also, it allows the coaches to process players in good faith. We don't require that you maintain your commitment, we may call and tell you to look elsewhere. If Venables ever processes anyone or ever recruits a player committed elsewhere, he's a POS hypocrite.
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If Venables ever processes anyone or ever recruits a player committed elsewhere, he's a POS hypocrite.

Did you flunk your Logic course in college? Of course he'd talk to someone who approached OU if they were already "committed" to someone else. Or playing there. What he's not doing is initiating those contacts. And if he did talk to them he would not want them to sign at Oklahoma until they were sure about their decision. There's no hypocrisy in there anywhere. You SEC guys are all up in arms about how Venables/OU is going to get a train run on them in the mighty, mighty SEC if we try to run a tight ship. Talk about provincial attitudes! Anyone expecting OU to be a miserable failure in the SEC is destined to be disappointed. We will do fine. OU will recruit in the top rankings every year same as always. That won't change, much to a lot of peoples' surprise. The biggest question is will we get enough elite players and be able to build depth.
 
Goldbug said:
If Venables ever processes anyone or ever recruits a player committed elsewhere, he's a POS hypocrite.

Did you flunk your Logic course in college? Of course he'd talk to someone who approached OU if they were already "committed" to someone else. Or playing there. What he's not doing is initiating those contacts. And if he did talk to them he would not want them to sign at Oklahoma until they were sure about their decision. There's no hypocrisy in there anywhere. You SEC guys are all up in arms about how Venables/OU is going to get a train run on them in the mighty, mighty SEC if we try to run a tight ship. Talk about provincial attitudes! Anyone expecting OU to be a miserable failure in the SEC is destined to be disappointed. We will do fine. OU will recruit in the top rankings every year same as always. That won't change, much to a lot of peoples' surprise. The biggest question is will we get enough elite players and be able to build depth.
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Computer Science major, math minor at Vandy. Logic is fine. I did make a D in Discreet Mathematics, but my logic here is sound.

LOL at me worrying or being all up in arms about Venables. We are on a sports board where we talk about, checks notes, sports! We can point out issues with coaches in our league without the "you're skeered" posts. I think OU is going to be a great addition to the SEC, and they will be very competitive. I've been very positive about OU here in on this board. But I can also express my thoughts on what I think is a stupid position for a coach to take, yes?

You going full retard on me thinking you are going to be a miserable failure when I've never come close to saying anything like that makes me wonder who is freaking out here. Hint, it isn't me.

Back to that logic ... if you tell players that once they commit they aren't supposed to reach out to anyone else, then it is 100% logical that you wouldn't recruit players who have committed elsewhere. That would be the definition of hypocrisy to do otherwise. It would mean you want your players to commit and then stick, but you don't expect other players to do the same thing.
 
It will be interesting, in a couple of years, to analyze what the best ways were, going into 2022 with all the changes.

There are going to be all kinds of models, some will work better than others. Everyone will change something.

I like his enthusiasm
 
Peter Gozintite said:
Translation; " My job ams hard. Dont have high expectations of me, or my team"
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Bullshit. People arent used to seeing a guy that is this secure in his beliefs. He’s a winner.
 
outofyourmind said:
It will be interesting, in a couple of years, to analyze what the best ways were, going into 2022 with all the changes.

There are going to be all kinds of models, some will work better than others. Everyone will change something.

I like his enthusiasm
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I have exactly one thing that I’m worried about and that’s it. He might be too good of a person for this job.
 
SoonerC said:
Bullshit. People arent used to seeing a guy that is this secure in his beliefs. He’s a winner.
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"How can I be expected to do my job?" He said that, or something pretty fucking close. He is building in excuses before the season starts. This dude is going to have a mental meltdown pretty soon. He aint stable, and already seems to be flailing to me.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
It's not that simple, at all.

In a perfect world that is what a 17, 18 year old should do. We don't live in a perfect world, so they don't do that. You can recognize reality or try to bend it to your wants and desires. Bending it to your desires doesn't work for many.

It's worked for Clemson and Dabo, but he coaches in the ACC and can afford to not have top 3 classes every year. But when OU has to play Bama, ATM, LSU, and UGA who are going to be recruiting the in top 3/5 every year, you better get generational QBs or be one hell of a coach because you are going to be behind in the talent.

Here's Clemson since 2017 with National Rank, ACC rank, and then what their rank would be in the new SEC:

Year - OV - ACC - SEC
2017 - 16 - 3rd - 8th
2018 - 7 - 1st - 4th
2019 - 10 - 1st - 8th
2020 - 3 - 1st - 3rd
2021 - 5 - 1st - 4th
2022 - 10 - 1st - 5th

Pretty much the most talent in the ACC year in and year out, but the best in the SEC would have been 3rd with some 8ths.

So, it's not simple at all. You can play the game, or not play the game. Good luck in the SEC if you don't.
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The reality is that a 17/18 year old "commitment" to a school in July is meaningless. Also meaningless is worrying if a coach is asking HS players to think twice before committing vs a coach who allows commits to seek else where and take visits. Really I don't see the difference, if a kid wants to flip then they're flipping no matter what approach a coach might take. By the end of recruiting cycle, your recruiting class won't look too much different either way
 
Peter Gozintite said:
"How can I be expected to do my job?" He said that, or something pretty fucking close. He is building in excuses before the season starts. This dude is going to have a mental meltdown pretty soon. He aint stable, and already seems to be flailing to me.
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Nah he is fine, excuses are a word he doesn’t allow. No doubt he is going to appeal to a certain type kid, the no excuses type that will work their asses off. Going to be fine.
 
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SoonerC said:
Nah he is fine, excuses are a word he doesn’t allow. No doubt he is going to appeal to a certain type kid, the no excuses type that will work their asses off. Going to be fine.
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Sounds like Charlie Strong. Bet this clown doesn't last any longer than Strong did at Jexas.
 
fordman84 said:
Sounds like Charlie Strong. Bet this clown doesn't last any longer than Strong did at Jexas.
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Well you can hope, but he’s going to succeed, which no coach at Texas has done in a very long time.
 
TaikoTiger said:
The reality is that a 17/18 year old "commitment" to a school in July is meaningless. Also meaningless is worrying if a coach is asking HS players to think twice before committing vs a coach who allows commits to seek else where and take visits. Really I don't see the difference, if a kid wants to flip then they're flipping no matter what approach a coach might take. By the end of recruiting cycle, your recruiting class won't look too much different either way
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For most it's not meaningless. I don't know the exact percentage, but historically a large number of commits in July stick. I'd bet at least 85% with the 15% being those that get processed or flipped.

I say historically because who knows what is going to happen this year. If you are bidding on eBay, you don't make your highest bid in the first day or few hours. You wait until the last minute and you make your final bids to limit what others can respond with. My guess is that teams that are willing to pay-for-play will wait until right before signing day and let loose with their cash. Could be an interesting ESD, and based on last year I hate seeing ATM lurking way in the back, but listed on "in" on a lot of the guys we are in on.

What is it with you guys ... I am not "worrying" about Venables and Dalbo. I am discussing their recruiting approach which is obviously out of the mainstream. I actually think it will hurt them, and helps us - once a player commits to Clemson, our staff doesn't have to waste as many resources and can move on. So I surely am not "worrying," I am happy to see this as I think it is a sub-optimal approach. Perhaps I am wrong, but the very top recruiters for the past decade haven't done that. Watch half of UGA's class get bought out from under them at the last minute, I might agree it's time for a change.
 
SEC fanboys gonna SEC fanboy
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Computer Science major, math minor at Vandy. Logic is fine. I did make a D in Discreet Mathematics, but my logic here is sound.

LOL at me worrying or being all up in arms about Venables. We are on a sports board where we talk about, checks notes, sports! We can point out issues with coaches in our league without the "you're skeered" posts. I think OU is going to be a great addition to the SEC, and they will be very competitive. I've been very positive about OU here in on this board. But I can also express my thoughts on what I think is a stupid position for a coach to take, yes?

You going full retard on me thinking you are going to be a miserable failure when I've never come close to saying anything like that makes me wonder who is freaking out here. Hint, it isn't me.

Back to that logic ... if you tell players that once they commit they aren't supposed to reach out to anyone else, then it is 100% logical that you wouldn't recruit players who have committed elsewhere. That would be the definition of hypocrisy to do otherwise. It would mean you want your players to commit and then stick, but you don't expect other players to do the same thing.
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You don’t seem to understand the difference between initiating a contact and reacting to one. He says he won’t go try to poach a player. If you think that’s stupid or whatever then you’re entitled to your own opinion. But that’s how he intends to recruit. He most certainly will respond if someone reaches out to him. But even then he will insist the player will have all the rabbit out of his blood before Venables would sign him. I would wager a lot of coaches respect his intentions but they hesitate to take the same approach. They want to see how it works and how players inside the OU program might benefit from his philosophy. Time will tell.
 
Goldbug said:
You don’t seem to understand the difference between initiating a contact and reacting to one. He says he won’t go try to poach a player. If you think that’s stupid or whatever then you’re entitled to your own opinion. But that’s how he intends to recruit. He most certainly will respond if someone reaches out to him. But even then he will insist the player will have all the rabbit out of his blood before Venables would sign him. I would wager a lot of coaches respect his intentions but they hesitate to take the same approach. They want to see how it works and how players inside the OU program might benefit from his philosophy. Time will tell.
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I totally understand the difference ... I mean this isn't hard. A player is committed or not. If he is committed, Venables should not in any way contact him - directly or indirectly ... no wink, wink BS. If a player wants to approach OU, and he is committed, they should tell him they don't talk to committed players. None of this, well they approached us first - BS, either you respect commitments or you don't. If the player wants to decommit first, then they are no longer a commit and then OU could reach out or respond. This is as logically consistent as one could be. Anything else is hypocritical.

FWIW, we know exactly how this will play out. This is something Dabo and Venables have been doing for a decade at Clemson. That's kind of the whole point of my post - "this won't work in the SEC." If Venables is a man of his word:

- He will not talk to or recruit players who have committed elsewhere ... which will limit their ability to flip.
- Their players will stick with them ... the number of decommits that Clemson had was way lower than everyone else. (Last year was an exception and you lost 3 top 100 guys at the very end - we got 1, Bama 1, UM 1).
- They will have some players commit early who they might have processed but they can't ... this means that roster management will be sub-optimal.
- It appears that it helps develop a great culture, not that UGA or Bama dont' have great cultures either. But no denying that Clemson has good culture and this contributes to it.
- I do believe that you end up with more dead weight on your roster and that's part of the problem in the SEC ... you can't afford to have that dead weight.

Like you said, time will tell.
 
Goldbug said:
You have absolutely no clue about Washington if you think that is why Petersen left as HC. It was not his recruiting style that led him to resign. You probably already know that too. Yeah, and OU is going to drop to Vanderbilt's level. That's why OU's recruiting class is currently ranked #5/#6. Poor bastard doesn't stand a chance with his approach to getting kids to come to Oklahoma. We're doomed.
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lol

That recruiting style didn't work and it's not going to.

Especially in the SEC.
 
RubinRock said:
SEC fanboys gonna SEC fanboy
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Fax are fax:

Year - OV - ACC - SEC
2017 - 16 - 3rd - 8th
2018 - 7 - 1st - 4th
2019 - 10 - 1st - 8th
2020 - 3 - 1st - 3rd
2021 - 5 - 1st - 4th
2022 - 10 - 1st - 5th
 
@WhosYourDawggy, what was Missouri's recruiting classes in 2013 and 2014 when they beat your Georgia Bulldogs and won the SEC East?

According to Rivals:
2010 - 21
2011 - 48
2012 - 31
2013 - 41
2014 - 34

So a team with an average recruiting ranking of ~35 won the SEC East twice. Kind of defeats your argument of not being able to compete in SEC without having top recruiting class.
 
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