Big Week in SEC Next Week

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Nope, I am just pointing out that it isn't a good matchup. Everyone on here is assuming Georgia wins by 14 points or more based on the posts.

I won't lie, I have heard this shit all year and it gets old after a while.

No way Tennessee can score on Pittsburgh's great defense.

No way Tennessee gets by Florida.

No way Tennessee wins at LSU.

No way Tennessee beats Alabama if Bryce Young starts.

No way Tennessee throws on Kentucky, they have best secondary Tennessee has faced to date.

At some point, it becomes a broken record.

That sounds like a 'you' problem. The only team people really wanted to see if Tennessee was real thus far was the Bama game. As soon as you said Pittsburgh and "great defense" tells me -- you've been looking for reasons every game. No one is calling Pitt's defense great.

Just enjoy the ride instead of trying to justify it. This isn't going to be an every year thing for Tennessee -- they don't recruit like the teams who are at the top year in and year out. You are going to have years where you struggle and where Bama, Georgia and the such will hammer you. That's college football.

That being said -- Georgia will be the best offense you will face and the best defense you will face this year. I've seen you talk about Stetson Bennett, so I'm guessing you don't realize, the #2 offense in the nation right now is........Georgia. Stetson Bennett and Georgia only throw for 17 yards less per game than Tennessee. Georgia runs for 200 a game also.

So Georgia has just as much fire power as Tennessee offensively, but I think everyone in the world will agree, Georgia has way more firepower defensively. I don't think there is a worse match up for Tennessee than Georgia, as they have a defense that will get a few stops and an offense that can score with Tennessee.

Personally -- I'd love to see Tennessee go into Athens and win the game. I'd love to see someone different in the CFP. We shall see this upcoming weekend. I think it is an ENORMOUS ask for Tennessee to go on the road to beat Georgia. I hope Tennessee/Georgia is a good game, because I think Tennessee would still get into the CFP if they lose to Georgia and Georgia goes on to win the SECCG.

 

[outofyourmind]

I think Georgia has the best Defense in the Country.
I don't see Tennessee winning this game, but at the same time, Heupel is like a 'QB Whisperer', and I'd never count him out, especially seeing this years team.

Having a special QB can make the difference.

Heupel is why we won the 2000 NC.

Don't know what the spread is on this game, but it feels like Georgia 8.5

 

[Volbound1700]

That sounds like a 'you' problem. The only team people really wanted to see if Tennessee was real thus far was the Bama game. As soon as you said Pittsburgh and "great defense" tells me -- you've been looking for reasons every game. No one is calling Pitt's defense great.

Just enjoy the ride instead of trying to justify it. This isn't going to be an every year thing for Tennessee -- they don't recruit like the teams who are at the top year in and year out. You are going to have years where you struggle and where Bama, Georgia and the such will hammer you. That's college football.

That being said -- Georgia will be the best offense you will face and the best defense you will face this year. I've seen you talk about Stetson Bennett, so I'm guessing you don't realize, the #2 offense in the nation right now is........Georgia. Stetson Bennett and Georgia only throw for 17 yards less per game than Tennessee. Georgia runs for 200 a game also.

So Georgia has just as much fire power as Tennessee offensively, but I think everyone in the world will agree, Georgia has way more firepower defensively. I don't think there is a worse match up for Tennessee than Georgia, as they have a defense that will get a few stops and an offense that can score with Tennessee.

Personally -- I'd love to see Tennessee go into Athens and win the game. I'd love to see someone different in the CFP. We shall see this upcoming weekend. I think it is an ENORMOUS ask for Tennessee to go on the road to beat Georgia. I hope Tennessee/Georgia is a good game, because I think Tennessee would still get into the CFP if they lose to Georgia and Georgia goes on to win the SECCG.

? - One, we haven't seen enough evidence to say Tennessee cannot recruit.

Two, how has out-recruiting everyone helped Texas A&M?

 

[Mistaken4193]

Not to take away from your point, but our secondary is better this year than it was last year. And I am going to have to disagree that Hooker and WRs are better than what you had last year. Both are quite good, but your O last year going into the SECCG was one of the best.

Bama last year had Bill O Brien calling plays. The only thing better in last years Bama was Bryce Young is barely better than Hooker. Their overall receiving core is better and their play calling is a LOT better. I hope y’all prove me wrong and beat the shit out of them tho. They could use being humbled

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

? - One, we haven't seen enough evidence to say Tennessee cannot recruit.

Two, how has out-recruiting everyone helped Texas A&M?

I didn't say Tennessee can't recruit, I said they can't recruit like the teams who simply reload, instead of rebuild. There are only a select few in that category and as much as you'd like to think Tennessee is one of them. They aren't.

And it isn't rocket science -- you have to have the recruiting AND the coaching to be elite on a yearly basis. When I say elite -- regular CFP appearances, like Bama, like OSU, like Clemson, like Georgia. Or are you insinuating, you will lose Hooker, Hyatt, Tillman, Keyton -- hell, Bru McCoy can leave too -- you think Tennessee's offense won't skip a beat and will be just as dominate next year?

That's what I mean by the rebuild, instead of reload. Ohio State can lose Olave and Wilson to the 1st round of the draft, then lose the best WR in football to injury in week 1 and still have 2 WR's as All-Americans at the halfway point. Georgia can lose 15 players to the NFL draft and still be the #1 team in the Nation. I think you get the point.

 

[Volbound1700]

I didn't say Tennessee can't recruit, I said they can't recruit like the teams who simply reload, instead of rebuild. There are only a select few in that category and as much as you'd like to think Tennessee is one of them. They aren't.

And it isn't rocket science -- you have to have the recruiting AND the coaching to be elite on a yearly basis. When I say elite -- regular CFP appearances, like Bama, like OSU, like Clemson, like Georgia. Or are you insinuating, you will lose Hooker, Hyatt, Tillman, Keyton -- hell, Bru McCoy can leave too -- you think Tennessee's offense won't skip a beat and will be just as dominate next year?

That's what I mean by the rebuild, instead of reload. Ohio State can lose Olave and Wilson to the 1st round of the draft, then lose the best WR in football to injury in week 1 and still have 2 WR's as All-Americans at the halfway point. Georgia can lose 15 players to the NFL draft and still be the #1 team in the Nation. I think you get the point.

I will say, I agree with most of what you are saying in relation to Tennessee although we are trying to get there in recruiting. I am expending a down year next year without Hooker (Hyatt is a sophomore so he will still be around). Sure we got good QBs coming in but Hooker is not easy to replace.

However, you act like Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, and Ohio State are just a fixture that won't change or go away. Clemson has been slipping a little in recent history and Georgia is really just a recent power. Prior to Smart, it was more about Auburn or LSU.

I also think you put too much stock in recruiting. Recruiting rankings are not always accurate and sometimes the high level recruits get a big head and give your program grief (this is what is going on about Texas A&M). To me, one of the most remarkable things about Saban is that he has managed to keep the drama out of his program with big-time recruits because they can cause drama and mess your program up eventually. Tennessee had a hard time with this in Fulmer era. Kirby Smart has built Alabama 2.0 in Athens and I don't see the problems there. Seems like they had more off the field drama with Mark Richt.

Recruiting is a big portion but I think you put way too much stock into it and the accuracy of the rankings. (granted, most of the breakthrough teams, IMO, have players on them that probably should have been higher in the ranking services and got missed).

 

[Wild Turkey]

The more likely result of that scenario would be a chance for a third Alabama-Tenn game in the same year...

Hmmmm...that would be delicious if we won, worse than not going if we lost.

The last time Tennessee was good Auburn beat them twice and they never recovered.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

I will say, I agree with most of what you are saying in relation to Tennessee although we are trying to get there in recruiting. I am expending a down year next year without Hooker (Hyatt is a sophomore so he will still be around). Sure we got good QBs coming in but Hooker is not easy to replace.

However, you act like Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, and Ohio State are just a fixture that won't change or go away. Clemson has been slipping a little in recent history and Georgia is really just a recent power. Prior to Smart, it was more about Auburn or LSU.

I also think you put too much stock in recruiting. Recruiting rankings are not always accurate and sometimes the high level recruits get a big head and give your program grief (this is what is going on about Texas A&M). To me, one of the most remarkable things about Saban is that he has managed to keep the drama out of his program with big-time recruits because they can cause drama and mess your program up eventually. Tennessee had a hard time with this in Fulmer era. Kirby Smart has built Alabama 2.0 in Athens and I don't see the problems there. Seems like they had more off the field drama with Mark Richt.

Recruiting is a big portion but I think you put way too much stock into it and the accuracy of the rankings. (granted, most of the breakthrough teams, IMO, have players on them that probably should have been higher in the ranking services and got missed).

I'll respond to this because recruiting is, unfortunately, something I know too much about.

- The main reason, as a rival, I don't like seeing UTjr playing well is what it might do to your recruiting. This is going to be your third gameday, you've played 2 night games that have shown recruits the crazy environment in Knoxville. I'd rather the recruits not know about UTjr and just know it's where Manning went a billion years ago. Schools getting cool is how the recruiting starts to turn - it's why UF couldn't do it under Mullen because he's a dork. So, you guys doing well at actual football will translate to recruiting.

- You can never put too much stock in recruiting. Jimmies and Joes way > than Xs and Os. Now, having great recruits doesn't mean you win, but the opposite is true ... it's really hard to win without great players.

- Forget individual recruiting rankings because they can be off. Elite recruits can be meh players, and 2/3* can become 5* players. But, college football is all about amassing the most really good players and then letting the chips fall where they may. If you get 3-5 five stars per year, and the rest high 4* with a few developmental 3*, you are going to be way better than the school that gets 3-5 four stars and then a bunch of 3* developmental players. Both teams will have some that will work out, some won't. But the first school simply is going to have more better players work out than the second school will find diamonds in the rough. Throw in injuries, which will 100% happen, and one team is replacing injuries with 5*s while the other is with 3*.

- I pointed this out to you the other day - you can be top 10 and think that is great. It's not. The difference between top 3 and top 10 is like the difference between top 10 and top 30. And, top 10 nationally means you are 7th in the SEC, the league you have to win in.

- The problem with ATM is they forgot you have to have a great culture to bind all these great prima donnas together. Day, Saban, Smart have shown they can do that even if they will tell you it's really hard. Dumbo had no idea how to do that at FSU, and he doesn't at ATM.

The good thing for you is that CFB is cyclical and you might be at the start of a cycle ... getting a new coach can do that. And your success on the field should translate to successful recruiting.

 

[Volbound1700]

I'll respond to this because recruiting is, unfortunately, something I know too much about.

- The main reason, as a rival, I don't like seeing UTjr playing well is what it might do to your recruiting. This is going to be your third gameday, you've played 2 night games that have shown recruits the crazy environment in Knoxville. I'd rather the recruits not know about UTjr and just know it's where Manning went a billion years ago. Schools getting cool is how the recruiting starts to turn - it's why UF couldn't do it under Mullen because he's a dork. So, you guys doing well at actual football will translate to recruiting.

- You can never put too much stock in recruiting. Jimmies and Joes way > than Xs and Os. Now, having great recruits doesn't mean you win, but the opposite is true ... it's really hard to win without great players.

- Forget individual recruiting rankings because they can be off. Elite recruits can be meh players, and 2/3* can become 5* players. But, college football is all about amassing the most really good players and then letting the chips fall where they may. If you get 3-5 five stars per year, and the rest high 4* with a few developmental 3*, you are going to be way better than the school that gets 3-5 four stars and then a bunch of 3* developmental players. Both teams will have some that will work out, some won't. But the first school simply is going to have more better players work out than the second school will find diamonds in the rough. Throw in injuries, which will 100% happen, and one team is replacing injuries with 5*s while the other is with 3*.

- I pointed this out to you the other day - you can be top 10 and think that is great. It's not. The difference between top 3 and top 10 is like the difference between top 10 and top 30. And, top 10 nationally means you are 7th in the SEC, the league you have to win in.

- The problem with ATM is they forgot you have to have a great culture to bind all these great prima donnas together. Day, Saban, Smart have shown they can do that even if they will tell you it's really hard. Dumbo had no idea how to do that at FSU, and he doesn't at ATM.

The good thing for you is that CFB is cyclical and you might be at the start of a cycle ... getting a new coach can do that. And your success on the field should translate to successful recruiting.

Yeah, we are recruiting very well going into the season but it isn't a top 5 class (probably best we have had in years though). I haven't seen that push to get us in top 5 yet.

Definitely expecting fall off next year. A fall off could still be 9-3 or 10-2 type season though (frankly what I was expecting for this year).

Saban (and Smart following Saban's example) getting the prima donnas to behave is probably just as remarkable as their ability to pull in the top classes. I think it helps that they can just push players out now that don't behave no matter how good they are.

 

[Volbound1700]

The last time Tennessee was good Auburn beat them twice and they never recovered.

Auburn beat Tennessee in 2001? Or if you define good as decent, than go with 2007.

However, I always felt like 2001 was our last real elite team of the Fulmer era. We were decent from 2002-2008 compared to the 2009-2020 runs but there was a noticeable drop off after 2001.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

I will say, I agree with most of what you are saying in relation to Tennessee although we are trying to get there in recruiting. I am expending a down year next year without Hooker (Hyatt is a sophomore so he will still be around). Sure we got good QBs coming in but Hooker is not easy to replace.

However, you act like Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, and Ohio State are just a fixture that won't change or go away. Clemson has been slipping a little in recent history and Georgia is really just a recent power. Prior to Smart, it was more about Auburn or LSU.

I also think you put too much stock in recruiting. Recruiting rankings are not always accurate and sometimes the high level recruits get a big head and give your program grief (this is what is going on about Texas A&M). To me, one of the most remarkable things about Saban is that he has managed to keep the drama out of his program with big-time recruits because they can cause drama and mess your program up eventually. Tennessee had a hard time with this in Fulmer era. Kirby Smart has built Alabama 2.0 in Athens and I don't see the problems there. Seems like they had more off the field drama with Mark Richt.

Recruiting is a big portion but I think you put way too much stock into it and the accuracy of the rankings. (granted, most of the breakthrough teams, IMO, have players on them that probably should have been higher in the ranking services and got missed).

Everyone wants to get there in recruiting, but unless you are in a state that is LOADED with recruits or in Clemson's case, located on the border of a state loaded with recruits -- it isn't sustainable. It is why you see the same handful of teams in the top 5 every year. You may have a year where you pull some big recruits, but the big boys do it EVERY YEAR.

And recruiting is ranked 1a, with coaching being 1b in college football -- a coach can only do so much if they don't have the elite talent around them. It is why coaches hold out for the select few programs and why coaches jump ship from one program to the next. You are only as good as the recruits you bring in.

Lastly -- never in CFP has the accuracy of the recruiting rankings been more accurate than right now. The high school kids are more college ready than ever before. The national high school camps give recruiting analysts a chance to see these recruits facing off against each other. 7 on 7 gives them a view of these players. National football schedules let coaches see these kids face off against each other in games. The individual specialized position coaches and strength and conditioning programs in high school has these kids more advanced than ever before.

Can you find guys who get to college and grow 3, 4, 5 inches like a Sauce Gardner did and go from a 4.7-4.8 guy and turn into a 4.3-4.4 guy? Sure. It most definitely isn't how you want to build your team though. Are there kids who didn't go to the camps and instead focused playing multiple sports in high school and when they put all their time into football become a much better player? Absolutely. Again -- it isn't what you want to build your team around.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

- I pointed this out to you the other day - you can be top 10 and think that is great. It's not. The difference between top 3 and top 10 is like the difference between top 10 and top 30. And, top 10 nationally means you are 7th in the SEC, the league you have to win in.

I try to explain this to fans but they don't seem to grasp the enormous difference between a top 5 recruiting class and a top 10 recruiting class.

As a Michigan fan, who regularly fall into the top 10 type recruiting class, we fall behind in depth and talent each year to Ohio State, as they are pulling in top 5, top 3, etc. type recruiting classes.

This was the best way I could describe it for people. I think it was 3 years ago -- Michigan finished with the 9th ranked recruiting class nationally. Our #1 recruit was ranked just outside the top 100 nationally. Ohio State finished with the 5th ranked recruiting class nationally, so only 4 spots ahead of Michigan. If you put the #1 recruit Michigan signed into the Ohio State class, he would have been the 11th highest ranked recruit they signed. Think about how crazy that is. The recruiting classes are only separated by 4 spots, but OSU signed TEN GUYS ranked higher than our #1 recruit. As you move up in the rankings to 4, 3, 2 and the #1 classes -- it only gets even more ridiculous the amount of talent they are signing.

Teams in the top 5 recruiting can completely whiff on multiple elite recruits a year and it doesn't even matter because they have so many of them and they just replace them the next year with the next wave of top recruits. The teams with top 10 classes cannot do that. The teams with top 15-25 can't miss on any recruits and even then, it may not matter.

 

[Wild Turkey]

Auburn beat Tennessee in 2001? Or if you define good as decent, than go with 2007.

However, I always felt like 2001 was our last real elite team of the Fulmer era. We were decent from 2002-2008 compared to the 2009-2020 runs but there was a noticeable drop off after 2001.

Look at your record in 2004.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

I try to explain this to fans but they don't seem to grasp the enormous difference between a top 5 recruiting class and a top 10 recruiting class.

As a Michigan fan, who regularly fall into the top 10 type recruiting class, we fall behind in depth and talent each year to Ohio State, as they are pulling in top 5, top 3, etc. type recruiting classes.

This was the best way I could describe it for people. I think it was 3 years ago -- Michigan finished with the 9th ranked recruiting class nationally. Our #1 recruit was ranked just outside the top 100 nationally. Ohio State finished with the 5th ranked recruiting class nationally, so only 4 spots ahead of Michigan. If you put the #1 recruit Michigan signed into the Ohio State class, he would have been the 11th highest ranked recruit they signed. Think about how crazy that is. The recruiting classes are only separated by 4 spots, but OSU signed TEN GUYS ranked higher than our #1 recruit. As you move up in the rankings to 4, 3, 2 and the #1 classes -- it only gets even more ridiculous the amount of talent they are signing.

Teams in the top 5 recruiting can completely whiff on multiple elite recruits a year and it doesn't even matter because they have so many of them and they just replace them the next year with the next wave of top recruits. The teams with top 10 classes cannot do that. The teams with top 15-25 can't miss on any recruits and even then, it may not matter.

I agree with what you typed ... you get it.

I don't want to turn this into a B1G v. SEC (with UT and OU) but if you think you have it bad against tOSU, now take a look at it from UF's perspective - some of their fans are all "hell yeah, we have a top 9 class ... woo hoo." Here's the problem ... they are 6th in the SEC. You have to play UGA and LSU every year ... they are ahead of you. UGA bigly so.

You guys are currently 23rd - just 8 recruits, so you will go up. But you are 3rd in the B1G with only tOSU and PSU in front of you. If you were in the SEC you would 10th.

 

[CoalTrain]

I think it's very possible for Tennessee to score in the 40s but I'm a little hesitant because they're going from playing in Knoxville to playing in Athens

Keeps going through my mind as well, Neyland stadium has become THE most intimidating venue in CFB this year BUT...

aint in play this week.

To win on the road you have to:

1. Run the ball well
2. Play good defense
3. Be great on special teams

Tennessee scares everyone to death with the passing game and rightfully so but these are the weaker areas on the team. UT plays good in these other areas then Georgia will take the loss but its a tall order, Georgia is the best team that UT has seen this year and its at their place.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Keeps going through my mind as well, Neyland stadium has become THE most intimidating venue in CFB this year BUT...

aint in play this week.

To win on the road you have to:

1. Run the ball well
2. Play good defense
3. Be great on special teams

Tennessee scares everyone to death with the passing game and rightfully so but these are the weaker areas on the team. UT plays good in these other areas then Georgia will take the loss but its a tall order, Georgia is the best team that UT has seen this year and its at their place.

When I look at this game, having watched the Bama and UK games, I am very, very glad we are playing in Athens!

 

[Volbound1700]

When I look at this game, having watched the Bama and UK games, I am very, very glad we are playing in Athens!

I am not.

 

[Volbound1700]

I try to explain this to fans but they don't seem to grasp the enormous difference between a top 5 recruiting class and a top 10 recruiting class.

As a Michigan fan, who regularly fall into the top 10 type recruiting class, we fall behind in depth and talent each year to Ohio State, as they are pulling in top 5, top 3, etc. type recruiting classes.

This was the best way I could describe it for people. I think it was 3 years ago -- Michigan finished with the 9th ranked recruiting class nationally. Our #1 recruit was ranked just outside the top 100 nationally. Ohio State finished with the 5th ranked recruiting class nationally, so only 4 spots ahead of Michigan. If you put the #1 recruit Michigan signed into the Ohio State class, he would have been the 11th highest ranked recruit they signed. Think about how crazy that is. The recruiting classes are only separated by 4 spots, but OSU signed TEN GUYS ranked higher than our #1 recruit. As you move up in the rankings to 4, 3, 2 and the #1 classes -- it only gets even more ridiculous the amount of talent they are signing.

Teams in the top 5 recruiting can completely whiff on multiple elite recruits a year and it doesn't even matter because they have so many of them and they just replace them the next year with the next wave of top recruits. The teams with top 10 classes cannot do that. The teams with top 15-25 can't miss on any recruits and even then, it may not matter.

You don't need to go on about it. I agree with you for the most part but I think you also under sell the systems at Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, etc. They don't just recruit elite but they also develop and get talent that fits their team. Getting the right players that fit your program is crucial as well.

 

[Volbound1700]

@NewPhoneWhoDis and @WhosYourDawggy

You guys got me thinking hard about recruiting. Often times, I will bring up topics here on other message boards or real life discussions. In a major discussion about this in VolNation and got a great counter for both of you. I am curious to know what the average Clemson rankings were because this guy is claiming that Clemson didn't even have top 10 classes. BTW, you guys know that you got me intrigued and had good arguments if I am talking about it in other places .

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

@NewPhoneWhoDis and @WhosYourDawggy

You guys got me thinking hard about recruiting. Often times, I will bring up topics here on other message boards or real life discussions. In a major discussion about this in VolNation and got a great counter for both of you. I am curious to know what the average Clemson rankings were because this guy is claiming that Clemson didn't even have top 10 classes. BTW, you guys know that you got me intrigued and had good arguments if I am talking about it in other places .

View attachment 90151

Clemson has been the one outlier in the 1st championship, but they were still at 53% blue chip recruits on their roster. They are also the one outlier of a team who isn't located in a state with a ton of blue chips recruits every year.
What Clemson did have was All-American QB talent, in DeShaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence when they won their titles, both gifts from being located on the border of Georgia.

So is it impossible to win national titles without elite of the elite recruiting classes? Sure. Is it probable that it will happen? No. Is a team going to be a national title contender on a yearly basis bringing in recruiting classes outside the top 10? IMO, no. And I say that as a fan of a school who falls into that category. I think a superior QB can narrow the talent differential in a year like say Cam Newton did at Auburn, or the year Joe Burrow did it for LSU.