FSU Leaving the ACC?

[Volbound1700]

Bad part is, Joe Paterno and the PSU brass wanted them to take Penn State as a full member and create an “eastern conference” which at the time would have been a fantastic conference for football , already was a premier conference for basketball along with the ACC but Pitt didn’t want the in competition for recruits and the basketball only schools were short sighted thinking basketball (which buttered all of the bread back then) was all they would ever need so they told PSU to pound sand..

The rest is history, that sealed their fate. Would have been interesting to see what that conference would have done had they made that move. Maybe all the moves happen anyway, maybe not but would have been a lot of fun for awhile anyway.

Penn State (very strong in that era NC caliber teams)
Miami (in their heyday same as PSU)
Pitt
Syracuse (strong program in those days)
WVU (played for 2 national titles in that era)
VT
BC
Rutgers
Temple
Louisville (who was in CUSA at the time iirc)

Yeah, my NCAA Video Game league has the Big East with Penn State and Notre Dame in it. I did keep Miami in ACC.

On the game, the Big East is Boston College, Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Rutgers, Penn State, and Notre Dame. I think that would have been a stable league.

 

[CoalTrain]

Yeah, my NCAA Video Game league has the Big East with Penn State and Notre Dame in it. I did keep Miami in ACC.

On the game, the Big East is Boston College, Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Rutgers, Penn State, and Notre Dame. I think that would have been a stable league.

No question, they add PSU then Miami,VT and BC never leave. You add ND and/or FSU then they pass the Big10 (in that era anyway).

Now , does that have an affect on the moves to the south as far as recruiting ect. Long term…??
Hard to say but as far as stability, that conference wasn’t going anywhere for quite awhile.

 

[Volbound1700]

Never can tell. Had Penn State came aboard, maybe Miami, VT and BC stay and the conference is still going strong today, and would have the inside track to land ND should circumstances force them to join a conference for football

I could even see the opposite with the Big East poaching the ACC. I am not sure the ACC is as stable with its 1990 makeup, especially if B1G had grabbed Maryland.

 

[Thiefery]

I see that being the push by Clemson and FSU is to go back and try to renegotiate the TV contract.

That's not happening.. I mean those schools are linked to the SEC.. is ESPN really going to have them pay that much to get out, make the remaining ACC schools happy and pay them the same rate when they enter the SEC? I don't see why they would do it when they have a deal in place that is very friendly money wise.

ESPN has the ACC network, they aren't trying to blow it up because FSU and Clemson are upset.. if anything the FSU statements are calculated to telling the rest of the ACC that once the new infusion of CFP money comes, they are demanding it

 

[Hu War Yu]

I could even see the opposite with the Big East poaching the ACC. I am not sure the ACC is as stable with its 1990 makeup, especially if B1G had grabbed Maryland.

They've never had much credibility as a football conference. For decades it was FSU and the 8 dwarfs. Now it's Clemson and the 13 dwarfs

 

[Wild Turkey]

That's not happening.. I mean those schools are linked to the SEC.. is ESPN really going to have them pay that much to get out, make the remaining ACC schools happy and pay them the same rate when they enter the SEC? I don't see why they would do it when they have a deal in place that is very friendly money wise.

ESPN has the ACC network, they aren't trying to blow it up because FSU and Clemson are upset.. if anything the FSU statements are calculated to telling the rest of the ACC that once the new infusion of CFP money comes, they are demanding it

Interesting take.

They do seem to be posturing for unequal revenue distribution.

 

[Volbound1700]

That's not happening.. I mean those schools are linked to the SEC.. is ESPN really going to have them pay that much to get out, make the remaining ACC schools happy and pay them the same rate when they enter the SEC? I don't see why they would do it when they have a deal in place that is very friendly money wise.

ESPN has the ACC network, they aren't trying to blow it up because FSU and Clemson are upset.. if anything the FSU statements are calculated to telling the rest of the ACC that once the new infusion of CFP money comes, they are demanding it

I am not sure where you read into my post about blowing up the ACC. I was hinting at Clemson and FSU using this as a chance to push the ACC to renegotiate their contract because it is undervalued.

Whether they can do that or not is up for debate similar to this entire GOR situation. None of this stuff has ever been litigated on. I get the entire "you signed the contract" but contract law isn't that simple, especially with regard to public educational institutes. NIL throws a wrench into things as well because it is a "market change".

 

[Volbound1700]

Regarding the FSU situation. If FSU really wanted out of ACC right now, they would not have gone public with these complaints. It would be sneaking out in the middle of the night type of situation based on how OU, Texas, UCLA, USC, and others have gone. They are doing this because they want to work with the ACC and try to save it.

 

[CorpRebel]

Maybe among Power5 conferences.

I think the new Pac12 can compete with them though. Pac12 just doesn't feel the same without the LA schools and I really am a fan of letting it die now. I wish the B1G would go ahead and just grab up Oregon and Washington. We know it is inevitable.

Nah... Just Washington & Stanford - just for the giggles and meltdown by Knight and Company!!!

 

[Volbound1700]

Nah... Just Washington & Stanford - just for the giggles and meltdown by Knight and Company!!!

I do think Stanford makes some sense just for the perspective of having a team in Northern California and Stanford seems more attractive than Cal.

I do wonder if the B1G is really done expanding. I think things are slow right now with B1G because they are still trying to hire a new Commissioner.

 

[Thiefery]

Regarding the FSU situation. If FSU really wanted out of ACC right now, they would not have gone public with these complaints. It would be sneaking out in the middle of the night type of situation based on how OU, Texas, UCLA, USC, and others have gone. They are doing this because they want to work with the ACC and try to save it.

i think they realize that they shouldn't have signed a 20/25 year agreement. TBH I don't think they care if the ACC falls or not as long as they are getting paid. All they can do at this point is send messages through the media.. probably threats of looking elsewhere..whatever it takes to make the conference pay them more than their current share.

There NO reason why ESPN should re-do the rights package with the ACC other than.. being nice? I mentioned earlier about ESPN basically paying double to facilitate a move for FSU/Clemson to the SEC.. and why it just doesn't make financial sense to do it right now.. But I do believe that if it were for them or anything with ND, they would facilitate it.

It's an interesting thing to follow for sure. ACC is in a rough spot right now but I believe that ESPN wants the conference to survive. It canceled the annual Big12 vs SEC challenge in order to start the ACC vs SEC challenge (CBB). I don't think we see the schools leaving the ACC until (maybe) once the BiG, Big12 contracts are up for negotiations again in 2030/2031.

 

[Volbound1700]

i think they realize that they shouldn't have signed a 20/25 year agreement. TBH I don't think they care if the ACC falls or not as long as they are getting paid. All they can do at this point is send messages through the media.. probably threats of looking elsewhere..whatever it takes to make the conference pay them more than their current share.

There NO reason why ESPN should re-do the rights package with the ACC other than.. being nice? I mentioned earlier about ESPN basically paying double to facilitate a move for FSU/Clemson to the SEC.. and why it just doesn't make financial sense to do it right now.. But I do believe that if it were for them or anything with ND, they would facilitate it.

It's an interesting thing to follow for sure. ACC is in a rough spot right now but I believe that ESPN wants the conference to survive. It canceled the annual Big12 vs SEC challenge in order to start the ACC vs SEC challenge (CBB). I don't think we see the schools leaving the ACC until (maybe) once the BiG, Big12 contracts are up for negotiations again in 2030/2031.

ACC would have to sue ESPN and hope the court buys a theory such as changing market conditions (i.e. NIL agreement) making the contract no longer fair/workable. This could be a stretch but there is an argument that the conditions that drove the original contract have changed dramatically enough that the contract is no longer equitable.

The easiest route for ACC would be to expand. People laugh but West Virginia would be a great candidate as they bring a lot of viewership with their rivalry games with Pitt, Va Tech, etc. and they would move the needle enough to open up the contract. I also think West Virginia would say "yes".

I agree that it would be in best interest for ACC to survive. I think the SEC doesn't want necessarily to take schools right now as well. I think they want to figure out the 16-team schedule situation.

 

[Thiefery]

ACC would have to sue ESPN and hope the court buys a theory such as changing market conditions (i.e. NIL agreement) making the contract no longer fair/workable. This could be a stretch but there is an argument that the conditions that drove the original contract have changed dramatically enough that the contract is no longer equitable.

The easiest route for ACC would be to expand. People laugh but West Virginia would be a great candidate as they bring a lot of viewership with their rivalry games with Pitt, Va Tech, etc. and they would move the needle enough to open up the contract. I also think West Virginia would say "yes".

I agree that it would be in best interest for ACC to survive. I think the SEC doesn't want necessarily to take schools right now as well. I think they want to figure out the 16-team schedule situation.

i think the big12 made a mistake with grabbing schools in the east.. especially if they get the four corner schools and a few years with Oregon/Udub

 

[Volbound1700]

i think the big12 made a mistake with grabbing schools in the east.. especially if they get the four corner schools and a few years with Oregon/Udub

In hindsight, yes. However, at the time, the move by the Big12 made perfect sense and it is why they are in a stable position right now.

It saved the league at the time but definitely it would be nice to trade those schools for some of the more valuable Pac12 leftovers.

 

[SJ76]

They've never had much credibility as a football conference. For decades it was FSU and the 8 dwarfs. Now it's Clemson and the 13 dwarfs

 

[tabascojet]

Pipe down dopey.....

 

[outofyourmind]

In the Big 8, it was Oklahoma and the Seven dwarves.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

It's funny that people just assume that the SEC would take FSU and Clemson. Certainly, they would be likely candidates IF the SEC decided to expand. I just don't see that for a while.

First, they want nothing to do with the ACC GOR, so it's not like they are having discussions.

Second, the SEC has its hands full for the next 4-10 years figuring out OU and TX, 9 IC games with a 3-6-6 format, the expanded CFP, and the new TV rights deal with ESPN and getting rid of CBS. The idea they would suddenly want to add 4 more teams, that likely don't generate the requisite revenue to earn their share is a stretch.

Third, it's not like the B1G is coming after Clemson or FSU ... they don't fit the profile they want, and they have their hands full doing the same thing the SEC is doing.

Both of those conferences will likely wait until 2032-ish to start looking around again. That's when their contracts run, all the other issues have been worked through, and the ACC's GOR is coming to an end.

 

[Volbound1700]

It's funny that people just assume that the SEC would take FSU and Clemson. Certainly, they would be likely candidates IF the SEC decided to expand. I just don't see that for a while.

First, they want nothing to do with the ACC GOR, so it's not like they are having discussions.

Second, the SEC has its hands full for the next 4-10 years figuring out OU and TX, 9 IC games with a 3-6-6 format, the expanded CFP, and the new TV rights deal with ESPN and getting rid of CBS. The idea they would suddenly want to add 4 more teams, that likely don't generate the requisite revenue to earn their share is a stretch.

Third, it's not like the B1G is coming after Clemson or FSU ... they don't fit the profile they want, and they have their hands full doing the same thing the SEC is doing.

Both of those conferences will likely wait until 2032-ish to start looking around again. That's when their contracts run, all the other issues have been worked through, and the ACC's GOR is coming to an end.

Maybe this isn't directed to anyone in this thread but I don't think anyone was saying they felt like Clemson or FSU would realistically leave the ACC in this thread. Perhaps you are referring to other media.

That being said, I do disagree about the B1G. I think FSU would be attractive to them to get into Florida and the recruiting. Probably not Clemson as much though.

However, I think the B1G is probably more concerned about hiring a new commissioner than expanding right now. This is all an attempt by Clemson and FSU to make more $$$.

 

[Deep Creek]

I am not sure where you read into my post about blowing up the ACC. I was hinting at Clemson and FSU using this as a chance to push the ACC to renegotiate their contract because it is undervalued.

Whether they can do that or not is up for debate similar to this entire GOR situation. None of this stuff has ever been litigated on. I get the entire "you signed the contract" but contract law isn't that simple, especially with regard to public educational institutes. NIL throws a wrench into things as well because it is a "market change".

If FSU brings 14% of total ACC value to the table, what do you think Clemson brings? UNC?