ACC on life support, 7 members getting ready to pull the plug

[Volbound1700]

Guess our definitions of "irrelevant" are different.
Big 12 football champions Last 10 years
2013 - Baylor
2014 - Baylor/TCU
2015 - Oklahoma
2016 - Oklahoma
2017 - Oklahoma
2018 - Oklahoma
2019 - Oklahoma
2020 - Oklahoma
2021 - Baylor
2022 - K-State

PAC 12 football champions Last 10 years
2013 - Stanford
2014 - Oregon
2015 - Stanford
2016 - Washington
2017 - USC
2018 - Washington
2019 - Oregon
2020 - Oregon
2021 - Utah
2022 - Utah

Out of 20 chances for conference championships, USC and Texas combined for one, 1, uno. That ain't too swift for big brands IMO.

People watch teams that are ranked. Put AP rankings high and low for each season with USC and Texas and you will see what I am talking about.

Texas played in National Title game in 2009 and USC was preseason #1 as recently in 2009.

 

[Red_Alert]

The big problem with the ACC is that too many schools are not fully committed into investing into football but gladly take in the money.

What better way to motivate schools to spend more on football than to reward in winning in football:
(every school gets a base pay)
* Win vs other P5 conf. - get W more amount
* Win a bowl game - get X more amount
* Win playoff game - get Y more amount
* Win National title - get Z more amount

Meh. The GOR is more than football. The ACC has good basketball and baseball.

What's the viewership on a UNC/Duke basketball game? They play each other twice in the regular season, no?

 

[Red_Alert]

Guess our definitions of "irrelevant" are different.
Big 12 football champions Last 10 years
2013 - Baylor
2014 - Baylor/TCU
2015 - Oklahoma
2016 - Oklahoma
2017 - Oklahoma
2018 - Oklahoma
2019 - Oklahoma
2020 - Oklahoma
2021 - Baylor
2022 - K-State

PAC 12 football champions Last 10 years
2013 - Stanford
2014 - Oregon
2015 - Stanford
2016 - Washington
2017 - USC
2018 - Washington
2019 - Oregon
2020 - Oregon
2021 - Utah
2022 - Utah

Out of 20 chances for conference championships, USC and Texas combined for one, 1, uno. That ain't too swift for big brands IMO.

As has been stated, tejas and USC bring viewers because they're bluebloods.
Both will bring a significant number of increased viewers once in the SEC and BIG 10.

 

[ralphiewvu]

The big problem with the ACC is that too many schools are not fully committed into investing into football but gladly take in the money.

What better way to motivate schools to spend more on football than to reward in winning in football:
(every school gets a base pay)
* Win vs other P5 conf. - get W more amount
* Win a bowl game - get X more amount
* Win playoff game - get Y more amount
* Win National title - get Z more amount

Myself and other mountaineers have said if Tobacco Road let us in we’d take tips on how to improve academia in return for showing 2/3rds of the conference how to support a football team.

 

[rtfgbfan]

FFS is it football season yet?

 

[Thiefery]

Guess our definitions of "irrelevant" are different.
Big 12 football champions Last 10 years
2013 - Baylor
2014 - Baylor/TCU
2015 - Oklahoma
2016 - Oklahoma
2017 - Oklahoma
2018 - Oklahoma
2019 - Oklahoma
2020 - Oklahoma
2021 - Baylor
2022 - K-State

PAC 12 football champions Last 10 years
2013 - Stanford
2014 - Oregon
2015 - Stanford
2016 - Washington
2017 - USC
2018 - Washington
2019 - Oregon
2020 - Oregon
2021 - Utah
2022 - Utah

Out of 20 chances for conference championships, USC and Texas combined for one, 1, uno. That ain't too swift for big brands IMO.

guess what.. people still picking UT and SC to come out their conferences as champions despite all that..

 

[Gatorchip]

…the only two that can even come remotely close to paying their own way are FSU and Clemson.

FSU is broke. The state pays to upkeep their stadium.

 

[wildturkey]

They got told to sit downView attachment 101434 and enjoy their milkshake

Yeah, no. The conference is dead. It's no coincidence the number of schools involved is the number needed to break the GOR and dissolve the conference. It's also extremely telling that UNC is one of the schools involved when historically, UNC has been the #1 defender of backing the ACC and its brand. If a school like that is in the talks, then the situation is no longer viable. They aren't on board. The unequal revenue sharing is just a band aid on a massive bleeding wound. It's only a matter of time now. Whether its actually later this summer, a year from now, 2 years for now it makes little difference. There will be major movement within the near future and they damn sure won't be waiting out the run of the contract. There's too much money on the table for the schools and for the P2

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Yeah, no. The conference is dead. It's no coincidence the number of schools involved is the number needed to break the GOR and dissolve the conference. It's also extremely telling that UNC is one of the schools involved when historically, UNC has been the #1 defender of backing the ACC and its brand. If a school like that is in the talks, then the situation is no longer viable. They aren't on board. The unequal revenue sharing is just a band aid on a massive bleeding wound. It's only a matter of time now. Whether its actually later this summer, a year from now, 2 years for now it makes little difference. There will be major movement within the near future and they damn sure won't be waiting out the run of the contract. There's too much money on the table for the schools and for the P2

While I agree the ACC is in trouble, the question is why and what can be done about it.

The reason why is that most of their teams are not competitive, and their fanbase is smaller, and they aren't engaged.

Then you have to aske why the SEC and the B1G are making so much money. It's not that they are lucky. It's because they play way better football (SEC and to a lesser degree B1G), and they have very large fanbases and alumni bases (B1G and to a lesser degree SEC). They are making money because their fans are excited, follow the teams, and watch them. And, they will be getting multiple teams into the CFP which is about to go from $450 million to $1.8 billion.

- SEC - UGA, UA, OU, UT, ATM, UF, AU, UTjr
- B1G - tOSU, UM, PSU, USC
- ACC - Clemson, FSU

Knowing why the SEC and the B1G are getting the big bucks, and the ACC can't getting more money, the question is why would the SEC and the B1G be interested in the teams that want to leave the ACC. The answer is that they don't and won't for the most part. When each team is going to be making over $100 million, anyone that joins your conference has to be able to generate $100 million. If they can't do that, the SEC/B1G won't want them. They don't expand for grins. The expand because it means something to add teams.

With that in mind, ND, FSU and Clemson are the only 3 that likely can earn their fair share - media plus CFP shares. None of the others come close. So, they may want to leave the ACC, but the reason they want to leave is why most of them won't be welcome where they will make more money.

Here are some numbers to back this up:

10	Clemson — 2.59M	ACC	P5
15	Florida State — 2.03M	ACC	P5
43	NC State — 881K	ACC	P5
46	North Carolina — 849K	ACC	P5
48	Syracuse — 841K	ACC	P5
49	Georgia Tech — 837K	ACC	P5
56	Pittsburgh — 650K	ACC	P5
59	Miami FL— 608K	ACC	P5
60	Wake Forest — 523K	ACC	P5
63	Louisville — 496K	ACC	P5
70	Boston College — 322K	ACC	P5
76	Virginia Tech — 264K	ACC	P5
79	Virginia — 237K	ACC	P5
91	Duke — 115.7K	ACC	P5

Note that teams like BC, VaTech, UVa, Duke are so bad there are half a dozen or more, in the case of Duke, G5 teams that draw more viewers. See below.

So, that's the media money. Now take the next big chunk of money, CFP payouts, and other than Clemson, FSU, and then an occasional UNC, NCSU, and Miami, they aren't going to get much more than a share per year. Contrast that to the SEC and the B1G that will regularly get 3 to 4 times the CFP shares. In that shares will also be apportioned to the winners, the SEC's shares could be 5 or 6 times.

For comparison:

SEC:

Rank	School and Avg Attendance	Conf	P5/G5
2	Alabama — 5.11M	SEC	P5
4	Tennessee — 4.13M	SEC	P5
5	Georgia — 3.50M	SEC	P5
7	LSU — 3.22M	SEC	P5
8	Texas — 3.06M	SEC	P5
11	Florida — 2.57M	SEC	P5
18	Texas A&M — 1.87M	SEC	P5
20	Auburn — 1.863M	SEC	P5
21	Arkansas — 1.80M	SEC	P5
22	Mississippi — 1.753M	SEC	P5
23	Oklahoma — 1.748M	SEC	P5
28	Kentucky — 1.35M	SEC	P5
36	Mississippi State — 1.10M	SEC	P5
39	South Carolina — 990K	SEC	P5
50	Missouri — 793K	SEC	P5

B1G:

Rank	School and Avg Attendance	Conf	P5/G5
1	Ohio State — 5.80M	B1G	P5
3	Michigan — 4.37M	B1G	P5
9	Penn State — 3.05M	B1G	P5
14	Southern Cal — 2.07M	B1G	P5
16	Nebraska — 1.98M	B1G	P5
17	Michigan State — 1.91M	B1G	P5
19	Maryland — 1.864M	B1G	P5
25	UCLA — 1.591M	B1G	P5
26	Wisconsin — 1.587M	B1G	P5
27	Iowa — 1.50M	B1G	P5
31	Indiana — 1.19M	B1G	P5
32	Illinois — 1.17M	B1G	P5
35	Northwestern — 1.13M	B1G	P5
37	Minnesota — 1.05M	B1G	P5
44	Purdue -870K	B1G	P5
58	Rutgers — 618K	B1G	P5

G5 teams better than Duke, compared to the low level ACC teams:

Rank	School and Avg Attendance	Conf	P5/G5
64	Colorado State — 386K		G5
65	Tulane — 354K		G5
66	Boise State — 353K		G5
69	Utah State — 324K		G5
72	SMU — 312K		G5
73	Toledo — 306K		G5
74	East Carolina — 305K		G5
75	Appalachian State — 298K		G5
77	Marshall — 262K		G5
80	Fresno State — 220K		G5
81	Ohio — 214K		G5
82	Connecticut — 212K		G5
83	San Diego State — 198K		G5
84	Western Michigan — 174K		G5
85	Memphis — 165K		G5
86	Tulsa — 162K		G5
87	Wyoming — 154K		G5
88	Central Michigan — 130K		G5
89	Georgia Southern — 125K		G5
90	Nevada — 116.4K		G5

If you look at the Four Million Club, it is even worse:

4 Million Club:

There were 39 teams that played in at least one game that cracked 4 million viewers:

8 — Ohio State

7 — Alabama, Michigan

6 — Tennessee

5 — Georgia

4 — Florida

3 — Auburn, Clemson, Kentucky, Penn State, TCU, Texas

2 — Florida State, Iowa, LSU, Maryland, Michigan State, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Southern Cal

1 — Arkansas, Army, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa State, Mississippi, Navy, NC State, Nebraska, Oklahoma State, Oregon, Pittsburgh, South Carolina, Syracuse, Texas A&M, UCLA, Wisconsin

All Conferences:

Rank	Game	Conferences
1	Michigan at Ohio State — 17.14M	B1G
2	Tennessee at Georgia — 13.06M	SEC
3	Alabama at Tennessee — 11.56M	SEC
4	Alabama at Texas — 10.60M	SEC/B12
5	Notre Dame vs. Ohio State — 10.53M	B1G/Indy
6	Alabama at Mississippi — 8.71M	SEC
7	Ohio State at Penn State — 8.27M	B1G
8	Alabama at LSU — 7.58M	SEC
9	Florida State vs. LSU — 7.55M	SEC/ACC
10	Texas A&M at Alabama — 7.15M	SEC
11	Army vs. Navy — 6.94M	Indy
12	Florida at Florida State — 6.71M	SEC/ACC
13	Notre Dame at Southern Cal, 6.68M	PAC/Indy
14	Ohio State at Maryland — 6.60M	B1G
15	Penn State at Michigan — 6.45M	B1G
16	Auburn at Alabama — 6.27M	SEC
17	Oregon vs. Georgia — 6.20M	SEC/PAC
18	Alabama at Arkansas — 5.83M	SEC
19	Florida at Georgia — 5.62M	SEC
20	Michigan State at Michigan — 5.58M	B1G
21	Florida at Tennessee — 5.57M	SEC
22	Illinois at Michigan — 5.47M	B1G
23	TCU at Texas — 5.03M	B12
24	NC State at Clemson — 4.98M	ACC
25	Tennessee at South Carolina — 4.87M	SEC
26	Clemson at Georgia Tech — 4.86M	ACC
27	Ohio State at Northwestern — 4.76M	B1G
28	Syracuse at Clemson — 4.75M	ACC
29	Wisconsin at Ohio State — 4.59M	B1G
30	Southern Cal at UCLA — 4.53M	PAC
31	Georgia at Kentucky — 4.48M	SEC
32	Tennessee at Pittsburgh — 4.46M	SEC/ACC
33	Texas at Oklahoma State — 4.46M	B12
34	Ohio State at Michigan State — 4.44M	B1G
35	Nebraska vs. Northwestern — 4.42M	B1G
36	Maryland at Michigan — 4.38M	B1G
37	Iowa at Ohio State — 4.38M	B1G
38	TCU at Baylor — 4.35M	B12
39	Iowa State at TCU — 4.34M	B12
40	Kentucky at Florida — 4.33M	SEC
41	Auburn at Georgia — 4.24M	SEC
42	Michigan at Iowa — 4.20M	B1G
43	Penn State at Auburn — 4.05M	SEC/B1G
44	Kentucky at Tennessee — 4.04M	SEC
45	Michigan at Indiana — 4.01M	B1G

SEC

Rank	Game	Conferences
2	Tennessee at Georgia — 13.06M	SEC
3	Alabama at Tennessee — 11.56M	SEC
4	Alabama at Texas — 10.60M	SEC/B12
6	Alabama at Mississippi — 8.71M	SEC
8	Alabama at LSU — 7.58M	SEC
9	Florida State vs. LSU — 7.55M	SEC/ACC
10	Texas A&M at Alabama — 7.15M	SEC
12	Florida at Florida State — 6.71M	SEC/ACC
16	Auburn at Alabama — 6.27M	SEC
17	Oregon vs. Georgia — 6.20M	SEC/PAC
18	Alabama at Arkansas — 5.83M	SEC
19	Florida at Georgia — 5.62M	SEC
21	Florida at Tennessee — 5.57M	SEC
25	Tennessee at South Carolina — 4.87M	SEC
31	Georgia at Kentucky — 4.48M	SEC
32	Tennessee at Pittsburgh — 4.46M	SEC/ACC
40	Kentucky at Florida — 4.33M	SEC
41	Auburn at Georgia — 4.24M	SEC
43	Penn State at Auburn — 4.05M	SEC/B1G
44	Kentucky at Tennessee — 4.04M	SEC

B1G

1	Michigan at Ohio State — 17.14M	B1G
5	Notre Dame vs. Ohio State — 10.53M	B1G/Indy
7	Ohio State at Penn State — 8.27M	B1G
14	Ohio State at Maryland — 6.60M	B1G
15	Penn State at Michigan — 6.45M	B1G
20	Michigan State at Michigan — 5.58M	B1G
22	Illinois at Michigan — 5.47M	B1G
27	Ohio State at Northwestern — 4.76M	B1G
29	Wisconsin at Ohio State — 4.59M	B1G
34	Ohio State at Michigan State — 4.44M	B1G
35	Nebraska vs. Northwestern — 4.42M	B1G
36	Maryland at Michigan — 4.38M	B1G
37	Iowa at Ohio State — 4.38M	B1G
42	Michigan at Iowa — 4.20M	B1G
45	Michigan at Indiana — 4.01M	B1G

ACC

Rank	Game	Conferences
9	Florida State vs. LSU — 7.55M	SEC/ACC
12	Florida at Florida State — 6.71M	SEC/ACC
24	NC State at Clemson — 4.98M	ACC
26	Clemson at Georgia Tech — 4.86M	ACC
28	Syracuse at Clemson — 4.75M	ACC
32	Tennessee at Pittsburgh — 4.46M	SEC/ACC

B12

Rank	Game	Conferences
4	Alabama at Texas — 10.60M	SEC/B12
23	TCU at Texas — 5.03M	B12
33	Texas at Oklahoma State — 4.46M	B12
38	TCU at Baylor — 4.35M	B12
39	Iowa State at TCU — 4.34M	B12

PAC

Rank	Game	Conferences
13	Notre Dame at Southern Cal, 6.68M	PAC/Indy
17	Oregon vs. Georgia — 6.20M	SEC/PAC
30	Southern Cal at UCLA — 4.53M	PAC

 

[batchaps4me]

I believe these schools are just putting pressure on ESPN. Hell, in theory, could 8 ACC teams leave and form a new conference called ACC2 and then invite the other 8 to join and get a new contract?

AND

This is what has been in the back of my mind. Why not.

Assume for a minute this happens and the ACC is reconstituted. What major media outlet will enter into contracts with them offering more money than they are now getting, especially after a bad faith act that killed the current contract? IMHO if the ACC folds, teams like Clemson, FSU, and Miami will be going to other conferences.

 

[ericd7633]

While I agree the ACC is in trouble, the question is why and what can be done about it.

The reason why is that most of their teams are not competitive, and their fanbase is smaller, and they aren't engaged.

Then you have to aske why the SEC and the B1G are making so much money. It's not that they are lucky. It's because they play way better football (SEC and to a lesser degree B1G), and they have very large fanbases and alumni bases (B1G and to a lesser degree SEC). They are making money because their fans are excited, follow the teams, and watch them. And, they will be getting multiple teams into the CFP which is about to go from $450 million to $1.8 billion.

- SEC - UGA, UA, OU, UT, ATM, UF, AU, UTjr
- B1G - tOSU, UM, PSU, USC
- ACC - Clemson, FSU

Knowing why the SEC and the B1G are getting the big bucks, and the ACC can't getting more money, the question is why would the SEC and the B1G be interested in the teams that want to leave the ACC. The answer is that they don't and won't for the most part. When each team is going to be making over $100 million, anyone that joins your conference has to be able to generate $100 million. If they can't do that, the SEC/B1G won't want them. They don't expand for grins. The expand because it means something to add teams.

With that in mind, ND, FSU and Clemson are the only 3 that likely can earn their fair share - media plus CFP shares. None of the others come close. So, they may want to leave the ACC, but the reason they want to leave is why most of them won't be welcome where they will make more money.

Here are some numbers to back this up:

10	Clemson — 2.59M	ACC	P5
15	Florida State — 2.03M	ACC	P5
43	NC State — 881K	ACC	P5
46	North Carolina — 849K	ACC	P5
48	Syracuse — 841K	ACC	P5
49	Georgia Tech — 837K	ACC	P5
56	Pittsburgh — 650K	ACC	P5
59	Miami FL— 608K	ACC	P5
60	Wake Forest — 523K	ACC	P5
63	Louisville — 496K	ACC	P5
70	Boston College — 322K	ACC	P5
76	Virginia Tech — 264K	ACC	P5
79	Virginia — 237K	ACC	P5
91	Duke — 115.7K	ACC	P5

Note that teams like BC, VaTech, UVa, Duke are so bad there are half a dozen or more, in the case of Duke, G5 teams that draw more viewers. See below.

So, that's the media money. Now take the next big chunk of money, CFP payouts, and other than Clemson, FSU, and then an occasional UNC, NCSU, and Miami, they aren't going to get much more than a share per year. Contrast that to the SEC and the B1G that will regularly get 3 to 4 times the CFP shares. In that shares will also be apportioned to the winners, the SEC's shares could be 5 or 6 times.

For comparison:

SEC:

Rank	School and Avg Attendance	Conf	P5/G5
2	Alabama — 5.11M	SEC	P5
4	Tennessee — 4.13M	SEC	P5
5	Georgia — 3.50M	SEC	P5
7	LSU — 3.22M	SEC	P5
8	Texas — 3.06M	SEC	P5
11	Florida — 2.57M	SEC	P5
18	Texas A&M — 1.87M	SEC	P5
20	Auburn — 1.863M	SEC	P5
21	Arkansas — 1.80M	SEC	P5
22	Mississippi — 1.753M	SEC	P5
23	Oklahoma — 1.748M	SEC	P5
28	Kentucky — 1.35M	SEC	P5
36	Mississippi State — 1.10M	SEC	P5
39	South Carolina — 990K	SEC	P5
50	Missouri — 793K	SEC	P5

B1G:

Rank	School and Avg Attendance	Conf	P5/G5
1	Ohio State — 5.80M	B1G	P5
3	Michigan — 4.37M	B1G	P5
9	Penn State — 3.05M	B1G	P5
14	Southern Cal — 2.07M	B1G	P5
16	Nebraska — 1.98M	B1G	P5
17	Michigan State — 1.91M	B1G	P5
19	Maryland — 1.864M	B1G	P5
25	UCLA — 1.591M	B1G	P5
26	Wisconsin — 1.587M	B1G	P5
27	Iowa — 1.50M	B1G	P5
31	Indiana — 1.19M	B1G	P5
32	Illinois — 1.17M	B1G	P5
35	Northwestern — 1.13M	B1G	P5
37	Minnesota — 1.05M	B1G	P5
44	Purdue -870K	B1G	P5
58	Rutgers — 618K	B1G	P5

G5 teams better than Duke, compared to the low level ACC teams:

Rank	School and Avg Attendance	Conf	P5/G5
64	Colorado State — 386K		G5
65	Tulane — 354K		G5
66	Boise State — 353K		G5
69	Utah State — 324K		G5
72	SMU — 312K		G5
73	Toledo — 306K		G5
74	East Carolina — 305K		G5
75	Appalachian State — 298K		G5
77	Marshall — 262K		G5
80	Fresno State — 220K		G5
81	Ohio — 214K		G5
82	Connecticut — 212K		G5
83	San Diego State — 198K		G5
84	Western Michigan — 174K		G5
85	Memphis — 165K		G5
86	Tulsa — 162K		G5
87	Wyoming — 154K		G5
88	Central Michigan — 130K		G5
89	Georgia Southern — 125K		G5
90	Nevada — 116.4K		G5

If you look at the Four Million Club, it is even worse:

4 Million Club:

There were 39 teams that played in at least one game that cracked 4 million viewers:

8 — Ohio State

7 — Alabama, Michigan

6 — Tennessee

5 — Georgia

4 — Florida

3 — Auburn, Clemson, Kentucky, Penn State, TCU, Texas

2 — Florida State, Iowa, LSU, Maryland, Michigan State, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Southern Cal

1 — Arkansas, Army, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa State, Mississippi, Navy, NC State, Nebraska, Oklahoma State, Oregon, Pittsburgh, South Carolina, Syracuse, Texas A&M, UCLA, Wisconsin

All Conferences:

Rank	Game	Conferences
1	Michigan at Ohio State — 17.14M	B1G
2	Tennessee at Georgia — 13.06M	SEC
3	Alabama at Tennessee — 11.56M	SEC
4	Alabama at Texas — 10.60M	SEC/B12
5	Notre Dame vs. Ohio State — 10.53M	B1G/Indy
6	Alabama at Mississippi — 8.71M	SEC
7	Ohio State at Penn State — 8.27M	B1G
8	Alabama at LSU — 7.58M	SEC
9	Florida State vs. LSU — 7.55M	SEC/ACC
10	Texas A&M at Alabama — 7.15M	SEC
11	Army vs. Navy — 6.94M	Indy
12	Florida at Florida State — 6.71M	SEC/ACC
13	Notre Dame at Southern Cal, 6.68M	PAC/Indy
14	Ohio State at Maryland — 6.60M	B1G
15	Penn State at Michigan — 6.45M	B1G
16	Auburn at Alabama — 6.27M	SEC
17	Oregon vs. Georgia — 6.20M	SEC/PAC
18	Alabama at Arkansas — 5.83M	SEC
19	Florida at Georgia — 5.62M	SEC
20	Michigan State at Michigan — 5.58M	B1G
21	Florida at Tennessee — 5.57M	SEC
22	Illinois at Michigan — 5.47M	B1G
23	TCU at Texas — 5.03M	B12
24	NC State at Clemson — 4.98M	ACC
25	Tennessee at South Carolina — 4.87M	SEC
26	Clemson at Georgia Tech — 4.86M	ACC
27	Ohio State at Northwestern — 4.76M	B1G
28	Syracuse at Clemson — 4.75M	ACC
29	Wisconsin at Ohio State — 4.59M	B1G
30	Southern Cal at UCLA — 4.53M	PAC
31	Georgia at Kentucky — 4.48M	SEC
32	Tennessee at Pittsburgh — 4.46M	SEC/ACC
33	Texas at Oklahoma State — 4.46M	B12
34	Ohio State at Michigan State — 4.44M	B1G
35	Nebraska vs. Northwestern — 4.42M	B1G
36	Maryland at Michigan — 4.38M	B1G
37	Iowa at Ohio State — 4.38M	B1G
38	TCU at Baylor — 4.35M	B12
39	Iowa State at TCU — 4.34M	B12
40	Kentucky at Florida — 4.33M	SEC
41	Auburn at Georgia — 4.24M	SEC
42	Michigan at Iowa — 4.20M	B1G
43	Penn State at Auburn — 4.05M	SEC/B1G
44	Kentucky at Tennessee — 4.04M	SEC
45	Michigan at Indiana — 4.01M	B1G

SEC

Rank	Game	Conferences
2	Tennessee at Georgia — 13.06M	SEC
3	Alabama at Tennessee — 11.56M	SEC
4	Alabama at Texas — 10.60M	SEC/B12
6	Alabama at Mississippi — 8.71M	SEC
8	Alabama at LSU — 7.58M	SEC
9	Florida State vs. LSU — 7.55M	SEC/ACC
10	Texas A&M at Alabama — 7.15M	SEC
12	Florida at Florida State — 6.71M	SEC/ACC
16	Auburn at Alabama — 6.27M	SEC
17	Oregon vs. Georgia — 6.20M	SEC/PAC
18	Alabama at Arkansas — 5.83M	SEC
19	Florida at Georgia — 5.62M	SEC
21	Florida at Tennessee — 5.57M	SEC
25	Tennessee at South Carolina — 4.87M	SEC
31	Georgia at Kentucky — 4.48M	SEC
32	Tennessee at Pittsburgh — 4.46M	SEC/ACC
40	Kentucky at Florida — 4.33M	SEC
41	Auburn at Georgia — 4.24M	SEC
43	Penn State at Auburn — 4.05M	SEC/B1G
44	Kentucky at Tennessee — 4.04M	SEC

B1G

1	Michigan at Ohio State — 17.14M	B1G
5	Notre Dame vs. Ohio State — 10.53M	B1G/Indy
7	Ohio State at Penn State — 8.27M	B1G
14	Ohio State at Maryland — 6.60M	B1G
15	Penn State at Michigan — 6.45M	B1G
20	Michigan State at Michigan — 5.58M	B1G
22	Illinois at Michigan — 5.47M	B1G
27	Ohio State at Northwestern — 4.76M	B1G
29	Wisconsin at Ohio State — 4.59M	B1G
34	Ohio State at Michigan State — 4.44M	B1G
35	Nebraska vs. Northwestern — 4.42M	B1G
36	Maryland at Michigan — 4.38M	B1G
37	Iowa at Ohio State — 4.38M	B1G
42	Michigan at Iowa — 4.20M	B1G
45	Michigan at Indiana — 4.01M	B1G

ACC

Rank	Game	Conferences
9	Florida State vs. LSU — 7.55M	SEC/ACC
12	Florida at Florida State — 6.71M	SEC/ACC
24	NC State at Clemson — 4.98M	ACC
26	Clemson at Georgia Tech — 4.86M	ACC
28	Syracuse at Clemson — 4.75M	ACC
32	Tennessee at Pittsburgh — 4.46M	SEC/ACC

B12

Rank	Game	Conferences
4	Alabama at Texas — 10.60M	SEC/B12
23	TCU at Texas — 5.03M	B12
33	Texas at Oklahoma State — 4.46M	B12
38	TCU at Baylor — 4.35M	B12
39	Iowa State at TCU — 4.34M	B12

PAC

Rank	Game	Conferences
13	Notre Dame at Southern Cal, 6.68M	PAC/Indy
17	Oregon vs. Georgia — 6.20M	SEC/PAC
30	Southern Cal at UCLA — 4.53M	PAC

 

[Volbound1700]

AND

Assume for a minute this happens and the ACC is reconstituted. What major media outlet will enter into contracts with them offering more money than they are now getting, especially after a bad faith act that killed the current contract? IMHO if the ACC folds, teams like Clemson, FSU, and Miami will be going to other conferences.

I already said the same thing in a later post

 

[batchaps4me]

I already said the same thing in a later post

I think you understated the effects. It is more than "burning bushes" ... I hate autofill too ... which implies just ESPN. No other competing sports network will enter negotiations with a bad faith actor. It would likely end up with the new ACC wishing they had a media deal as good as the PAC.

 

[Volbound1700]

I think you understated the effects. It is more than "burning bushes" ... I hate autofill too ... which implies just ESPN. No other competing sports network will enter negotiations with a bad faith actor. It would likely end up with the new ACC wishing they had a media deal as good as the PAC.

Desperate times call for desperate measures though and companies are quick to forget ills when $$$ is involved.

The question is whether ESPN has a cause of action against the ACC2 under my scenario. If teams just quit the ACC to reform the ACC to overcome the contract, that maybe read as contractual fraud or some other theory. Curious to see @WhosYourDawggy thought on the matter. I just get the vibe that the ACC schools could not do that from a legal aspect as well without repercussions.

 

[batchaps4me]

Desperate times call for desperate measures though and companies are quick to forget ills when $$$ is involved.

The question is whether ESPN has a cause of action against the ACC2 under my scenario. If teams just quit the ACC to reform the ACC to overcome the contract, that maybe read as contractual fraud or some other theory. Curious to see @WhosYourDawggy thought on the matter. I just get the vibe that the ACC schools could not do that from a legal aspect as well without repercussions.

IMHO the legal cause is a secondary point when planning their options. Let's assume for a minute that it is determined with 100% confidence that there is no legal recourse by ESPN. So the point of forming ACC2 is to negotiate more money for media rights only. The question is then inherently how much can they get for media rights under the ACC2 banner. The answer lies in who will negotiate with them given their proven bad faith in upholding contracts. The only companies that will throw their hats in the ring are small regional networks and streaming services and the ACC2 will be paid on par with the PAC, if they are lucky. They will in the end get less media rights money than they are now receiving. The only sound reason you will see the ACC fold is so that its top teams to go to other major conferences and the rest fending for themselves. It is not economically viable to reconstitute the ACC even if the legal side works out perfectly.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Desperate times call for desperate measures though and companies are quick to forget ills when $$$ is involved.

The question is whether ESPN has a cause of action against the ACC2 under my scenario. If teams just quit the ACC to reform the ACC to overcome the contract, that maybe read as contractual fraud or some other theory. Curious to see @WhosYourDawggy thought on the matter. I just get the vibe that the ACC schools could not do that from a legal aspect as well without repercussions.

Yeah, I don't know the exact law behind that, but I can't bankrupt my company wipe out my debt and then re-incorporate the same company, doing the same thing, with the same clients/customers. The creditors would be able to "pierce the corporate veil" of the new company and sue them.

With regard to the contract, sure that might void that contract, but as you have both pointed out, ESPN might then tell them to pound sand.

We have to remember ... as I pointed out in my post there is a reason they didn't get a great deal. They don't have an elite product to sell. Making up the same product under a different name doesn't suddenly make that product any better. In fact, as many have pointed out, the better teams will leave, leaving an even worse product.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

What the ACC needs to do is figure out how to make their product better so that ESPN would want to renegotiate. The only want to do that that I can think of is to merge with the PAC. The ACC-PAC can then offer a somewhat better product, get more money, and reduce the length of the GOR.

 

[Deep Creek]

People watch teams that are ranked. Put AP rankings high and low for each season with USC and Texas and you will see what I am talking about.

Texas played in National Title game in 2009 and USC was preseason #1 as recently in 2009.

More people watch brand named teams like Texas, USC, Nebraska, etal even if they AREN'T ranked. And they do so at a higher rate than teams like Cal, Baylor, Purdue, Miss State, etal even if those teams ARE ranked.

 

[Deep Creek]

FFS is it football season yet?

 

[Deep Creek]

guess what.. people still picking UT and SC to come out their conferences as champions despite all that..

Hell, "people" also picked them to come out of those conferences about 1/2 those years I listed! Texas and USC as "always back".