Winning Doesn't Matter In College Football Anymore

[fordman84]

I don’t think it is or has ever really been about the prestigious school for 99% of the kids. It is generally always about which school gives them the best chance to go to the pro’s. Which generally is the top schools but my theory I believe is proved out by the transfer portal.

NIL has driven some to jump from a high profile school where they are getting playing time to another high profile school to get playing time, but for the most part (and when NIL is locked down from what it is today) it's kids who have fallen out of favor either because they stopped working, didn't develop, or someone faster/stronger/smarter came along that are going to be transferring to a place they feel is a better shot to get seen. All the transfer portal has done is require coaches to be accountable to the players they already have on campus just as much as they are accountable to the 4* and 5* kids they are trying to get to sign up. And to me that's a good thing.

Most people who hate what CFB has become only look at it from their own vantage point as a fan or alumnus. But the transfer portal has been a lifeline for kids who otherwise would have been stuck on the depth chart. Sure they may have won a ring without seeing much playing time, but most kids don't care about that. Gundy is right that it isn't all about winning, but he's wrong what it is about. It's about visibility, and a little about money as well. I may not go win a natty, but if I'm getting starter minutes and snaps then that's better for me.

 

[TheReal_NU]

Get in line, bech. This is clearly a Dallas Cowboys thread!

 

[Deep Creek]

Well, they have had success in their own terms and Gundy knows that is slipping away. He doesn't seem the type of coach that is willing to work to keep his players happy, he comes across more as the "my way or the highway" type of coach that is going to end up driving away any kids with talent that may be in demand by another school. That's why he is complaining. it used to be simple to only not have to be a complete douche for a month or two a year then back to regularly scheduled dildoness.

This is okay but not the "cornered the market" part. Unless you're talking about cornering the market at Eskimo Joe's. They've definitely done that.

And Gundy may be driving away kids that are also in demand by schools like TCU, Tech and Baylor. Those who they go toe to toe with on the recruiting trail. So that my be the case. But I can't ever recall Okie Lite being in the hunt for those highly sought after 5*s. They may have and I may have missed it.

 

[fordman84]

This is okay but not the "cornered the market" part. Unless you're talking about cornering the market at Eskimo Joe's. They've definitely done that.

And Gundy may be driving away kids that are also in demand by schools like TCU, Tech and Baylor. Those who they go toe to toe with on the recruiting trail. So that my be the case. But I can't ever recall Okie Lite being in the hunt for those highly sought after 5*s. They may have and I may have missed it.

No they haven't been in the mix for those top recruits, but they do really well in that very next level against the schools like you listed. Difference is that TCU, Tech, and Baylor have the willingness to spend on their players and appear to be able to develop the kids. Okie St, in my opinion only, feasted on the kids that wanted to go to OU but didn't get offers so played for revenge. Those kids now are going to fall to other SEC schools instead of a Big12 school. Okie has to recruit more on their own now and compete with Big12 schools

 

[Deep Creek]

No they haven't been in the mix for those top recruits, but they do really well in that very next level against the schools like you listed. Difference is that TCU, Tech, and Baylor have the willingness to spend on their players and appear to be able to develop the kids. Okie St, in my opinion only, feasted on the kids that wanted to go to OU but didn't get offers so played for revenge. Those kids now are going to fall to other SEC schools instead of a Big12 school. Okie has to recruit more on their own now and compete with Big12 schools

I'm hearing the term "donor fatigue" coming from these three. They are treading carefully because some aren't so sure they'll but able to reach the $22 million in revenue sharing without killing other programs. We'll see though.

I have no inside data on this. If I had to rank the Big 12 schools in order of ability to fork over the most money to athletes, I'd have to put Kansas at #1. After that, I have no idea. Maybe the Arizona schools and Colorado next. Then maybe Texas Tech, Iowa State and West Virginia. I'm guessing Houston, Cincy would be last.

 

[fordman84]

I'm hearing the term "donor fatigue" coming from these three. They are treading carefully because some aren't so sure they'll but able to reach the $22 million in revenue sharing without killing other programs. We'll see though.

I have no inside data on this. If I had to rank the Big 12 schools in order of ability to fork over the most money to athletes, I'd have to put Kansas at #1. After that, I have no idea. Maybe the Arizona schools and Colorado next. Then maybe Texas Tech, Iowa State and West Virginia. I'm guessing Houston, Cincy would be last.

My completely made up and un-scientific view on the ability to run a successful NIL collective is by looking at the football stadium. How many seats and how many either extreme historical value or modern amenities does it have? If it is a large and modern or large and historically significant stadium then probably have enough interest in football to go with a sizeable alumni base to be able to have a good NIL system. At least a sizeable enough NIL collective to survive this initial craziness and able to bid for top talent longer than most schools.

 

[Deep Creek]

My completely made up and un-scientific view on the ability to run a successful NIL collective is by looking at the football stadium. How many seats and how many either extreme historical value or modern amenities does it have? If it is a large and modern or large and historically significant stadium then probably have enough interest in football to go with a sizeable alumni base to be able to have a good NIL system. At least a sizeable enough NIL collective to survive this initial craziness and able to bid for top talent longer than most schools.

This is where TCU and Baylor will have to rely on how wealthy their small alumni base is and how much of their wealth they are willing to commit. SMU's small base sure as hell anted up in a hurry when they had a chance to jump to the ACC.

None of those have large stadium. They don't fill the ones they have unless they are "in the mix" or playing a bigger name. We'll see what TCU/Tech draws this Saturday.

 

[fordman84]

This is where TCU and Baylor will have to rely on how wealthy their small alumni base is and how much of their wealth they are willing to commit. SMU's small base sure as hell anted up in a hurry when they had a chance to jump to the ACC.

None of those have large stadium. They don't fill the ones they have unless they are "in the mix" or playing a bigger name. We'll see what TCU/Tech draws this Saturday.

SMU fanbase has a bottomless pocket to get football back to the top, trust me on that one! TCU and Baylor haven't been all in on football before. Every once in a while they get a good team and get on a roll, but they aren't die hard about football. TCU is more of a baseball school and baylor a basketball school.

 

[Huskers4me]

Agree with all but this part. I wouldn’t put Okie Lite in this group. IMHO they’ve never“ cornered the market” on any sport but men’s golf for a time.

Men’s wrestling way back when.

I was thinking losing isn’t as disastrous as in the past because the conferences are more stacked with huge matchups and 4 teams from a conference may get in to the top 12 in the end. Does that lessen the actual worth of the season? We are now seeing losses galore but do they really mean as much to the top teams that lose twice?

 

[Deep Creek]

Men’s wrestling way back when.

I was thinking losing isn’t as disastrous as in the past because the conferences are more stacked with huge matchups and 4 teams from a conference may get in to the top 12 in the end. Does that lessen the actual worth of the season? We are now seeing losses galore but do they really mean as much to the top teams that lose twice?

Good call. I forgot about that one.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Eh. Not an attack on you, but I hate this thing where anytime anyone says cfb or college sports in general isn't as good as it once was, all of the fans of big time schools come running to say its better than ever. I don't give a shit how much a coach makes. Maybe we should listen to them when they speak. They know the system and all the pros/cons better than you and I. And there's a hell of a lot of them that are saying things need to be fixed.

And for the most part, I don't see many people complaining anymore about kids making money. That's not the issue. I didn't see Gundy complain here about kids getting paid. I see him complaining about the process of it all. Is that not a valid concern? Its ok to say that kids should be able to make money, while also saying the system needs to be fixed. Its also ok to say that kids should be able to transfer and play wherever the hell they want, whenever the hell they want. Regular students can. But that it has taken a little away from the game.

Cfb has become more and more about tv ratings (why as a fan should I give a shit how many people are watching the game I'm watching) and how much the big time schools can pay a player.

There is only one fix and that's a CBA. Period.

Gundy is also an idiot. Your team is doing fine with retention and you don't pay top NIL or do the transfer portal. Because you have a coach who has built a winning culture that draws kids to him and Clemson. OSU doesn't have that and Gundy is probably part of the problem.

He's going to have a good part of the $22 million to spend next year. Let's see what he has to say then.

 

[Deep Creek]

He's going to have a good part of the $22 million to spend next year. Let's see what he has to say then.

Honest question. Are schools required to spend $22 million or up to $22 million?

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Honest question. Are schools required to spend $22 million or up to $22 million?

Up to ... they aren't required to spend any, and they can choose how to distribute it.

 

[Deep Creek]

Up to ... they aren't required to spend any, and they can choose how to distribute it.

Thanks. I’m picking up vibes that some non P2 schools are trying to decide how much to pay out without having to cut other programs. If they can’t generate enough revenue to do both.

 

[PeoplesChicken]

Players are motivated by money? I've seen this movie before

 

[Wild Turkey]

There's always going to be people that don't want any change and its the end of the world if there is. But right now cfb is becoming more and more what the NFL is. This is just me personally, but I do think a lot of people agree with this, I don't want cfb to try and be the NFL. If I want to watch the NFL, I'll watch the NFL. The on field product in the NFL is much better than college. I like college for all the things that make it unique. Taking those things away, hurts the sport in my eyes.


I know why all this is happening and you won't really hear me defend the NCAA. I wish they would just die off. The only thing I will say in its defense, no matter what they did in the past, people would have bitched about them. But its a greedy organization that refused to adapt as the economy of cfb boomed.

Again, I think the kids should have these rights to transfer and make their money. Who the hell am i to tell someone not to take the money someone is willing to pay them. I would have taken it too. But I can also say from fans perspective this isn't the same sport that we are watching anymore. Having kids go to your school and stay there 3-4 years was a huge part of what made cfb what it was. That and the regionality of college sports made it unique compared to pro sports. That impacts everyone and all fans "lose". Not just those losing success. The only fans that i see who are fully in favor of all this are those in the two conferences. The ratings will continue to grow but this is just going to create a larger gap in college sports, which I don't think is for the best.

I disagree with you that college is like the NFL because the NFL does not have unlimited free agency, it has a salary cap and mostly has an even playing field for all teams. Now I'm not arguing that things should be equal in CFB but we do need something in place that contracts the kid to the schools if they are getting paid and make the portal more reasonable (which they are trying to do). Creating a market with unlimited free agency and no salary cap is not a sustainable formula.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Thanks. I’m picking up vibes that some non P2 schools are trying to decide how much to pay out without having to cut other programs. If they can’t generate enough revenue to do both.

P2 and P4 will be a lot different. Title IX suits to follow, but pretty confident they don't have to pay women who make no revenue.

 

[Wild Turkey]

There is only one fix and that's a CBA. Period.

Are we talking a CBA that gives a pool to a school and becomes a defacto salary cap? A CBA solves nothing if you can also give out NIL because you are still in the same boat.

 

[fordman84]

Thanks. I’m picking up vibes that some non P2 schools are trying to decide how much to pay out without having to cut other programs. If they can’t generate enough revenue to do both.

I also don't think it is $22m for football, but for athletics.

 

[fordman84]

Are we talking a CBA that gives a pool to a school and becomes a defacto salary cap? A CBA solves nothing if you can also give out NIL because you are still in the same boat.

I don't see how NIL can ever be put back in the bag. Unless congress steps up and makes it illegal for Jim Bob Autos to pay a kid to "Advertise" for them, then really not much that can be done. Even then I would expect any bill to get challenged up to the SCOTUS. Now that we have kids being paid endorsement deals how could anyone come back and take that away? College sports basically have lost their amateurism status now that kids are getting endorsement deals.