So what happens if CFP splits right down the middle?

[WhosYourDawggy]

so good for some but not all? you say they didnt help shape things when some who have been left out did. Louisville, Utah, TCU all moved up just fine. now Houston, UCF and Cinci all got invites too. what are you afraid will happen if they get a seat at the table?

They have a seat at the table. They are now P5 schools. It's the existing G5 conferences that aren't going to get sit at the adults table.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

I hate a mooch. The G5 stands there with its hand out demanding "entitlements" when the exact opposite should be happening. A school like TCU came from way behind to be a legitimate candidate to join the Big XII because they scheduled right, spent a lot of money, improved their facilities, kept their nose clean and developed a culture over many years that made then deserve an elevated status in CFP. They are a shining example of how other schools should improve their lot in life. The G5 standing there with a tin cup in its hand is tiresome and it is going to get even worse as financial conditions in college football change enormously. Everyone hates on OU and Texas right now for moving to the SEC. Put aside the very real possibility that either or both of us may have a hard time winning as many games as we'd like in the SEC. But like most things in life, it all came down to the Benjamins. And sharing those hard earned Benjamins because someone else is whining is pointless. If you got the tit pulled out of your mouth, then go tell someone who cares but it won't be the schools who are pulling most of the weight in TV ratings. I'd actually like to see the mooch schools that have a P5 status start to take some financial hits too if they can't/won't improve their contributions to the existing conferences. /rant off

Great post. I really wish there was a solution for the G5 to have their own playoffs. I think it would be far more exciting than hoping one team can get in the CFP.

As a grad of one of those mooch schools, I agree wholeheartedly. Vandy has pissed me off for years for their lack of interest in getting better. It would appear they finally are getting off their ass and doing something. They have a 300 million project for improvements underway. It's about damn time. We have a new Chancellor who is a fan of sports ... that helps.

 

[Deep Creek]

I don't disagree with what you are saying about the low end P5 not being the proximate cause of the P5 wealth development. But I don't see where it is applicable to a discussion as to why the G5 isn't at the adults table.

The core of the main conferences have been around for a century. It was the conferences that created the wealth that we are talking about. The G5 conferences were not an influence in developing that wealth. Is it true that Vandy, Duke, or NW, as examples, weren't the major movers inside their conferences? That is true, but it doesn't then mean that because Vandy sucks at football the G5 gets to move to the adults table. For whatever reason, Vandy has been at the adults table for a century and in their own way contributed to the wealth. Were they free riders? Sure. That doesn't mean that the P5 has to allow the G5 to be free riders. The first thing being true doesn't make the second thing true.

At the end of the day there is a huge economic imbalance between P5 and G5, however we got there, and however the P5 conferences are constituted. That isn't going to magically go away. The P5 is under no obligation to make it go away. In some ways, the G5 is lucky the P5 wants to continue to subsidize their budgets. It may not always be that way.

I’m not saying G5 schools deserve a seat at the big boy table. I’m saying some of the P5s don’t deserve one either…if we are talking about drawing national eyeballs. G5s don’t attract national audiences and neither do many P5s. As you say, those P5s are there due to old membership, not on current merit or current value added. If those types added value, the SEC would have let in Iowa State and Texas Tech along with Texas and Oklahoma.

 

[Deep Creek]

I hate a mooch. The G5 stands there with its hand out demanding "entitlements" when the exact opposite should be happening. A school like TCU came from way behind to be a legitimate candidate to join the Big XII because they scheduled right, spent a lot of money, improved their facilities, kept their nose clean and developed a culture over many years that made then deserve an elevated status in CFP. They are a shining example of how other schools should improve their lot in life. The G5 standing there with a tin cup in its hand is tiresome and it is going to get even worse as financial conditions in college football change enormously. Everyone hates on OU and Texas right now for moving to the SEC. Put aside the very real possibility that either or both of us may have a hard time winning as many games as we'd like in the SEC. But like most things in life, it all came down to the Benjamins. And sharing those hard earned Benjamins because someone else is whining is pointless. If you got the tit pulled out of your mouth, then go tell someone who cares but it won't be the schools who are pulling most of the weight in TV ratings. I'd actually like to see the mooch schools that have a P5 status start to take some financial hits too if they can't/won't improve their contributions to the existing conferences. /rant of

I hate a mooch. The G5 stands there with its hand out demanding "entitlements" when the exact opposite should be happening. A school like TCU came from way behind to be a legitimate candidate to join the Big XII because they scheduled right, spent a lot of money, improved their facilities, kept their nose clean and developed a culture over many years that made then deserve an elevated status in CFP. They are a shining example of how other schools should improve their lot in life. The G5 standing there with a tin cup in its hand is tiresome and it is going to get even worse as financial conditions in college football change enormously. Everyone hates on OU and Texas right now for moving to the SEC. Put aside the very real possibility that either or both of us may have a hard time winning as many games as we'd like in the SEC. But like most things in life, it all came down to the Benjamins. And sharing those hard earned Benjamins because someone else is whining is pointless. If you got the tit pulled out of your mouth, then go tell someone who cares but it won't be the schools who are pulling most of the weight in TV ratings. I'd actually like to see the mooch schools that have a P5 status start to take some financial hits too if they can't/won't improve their contributions to the existing conferences. /rant off

Horse hockeyGB (except for the Benjamins…that’s 100% true)

you know the only reason TCU and West Virginia were invited was to get back to 10 teams. They didn’t bring the Benjamins with them. They just mooched off UT and OU like the other 6. And guess what, Miss State etal will now be the moochers.

only a very few schools are making the hay. The others are mooching. And some of them ain’t showing a lot of productivity for the milk they ate getting from those tits.

 

[Deep Creek]

They have a seat at the table. They are now P5 schools. It's the existing G5 conferences that aren't going to get sit at the adults table.

Big 12 won’t be at the table either when OU and Texas leave.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

I’m not saying G5 schools deserve a seat at the big boy table. I’m saying some of the P5s don’t deserve one either…if we are talking about drawing national eyeballs. G5s don’t attract national audiences and neither do many P5s. As you say, those P5s are there due to old membership, not on current merit or current value added. If those types added value, the SEC would have let in Iowa State and Texas Tech along with Texas and Oklahoma.

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think you are hearing me. Remember that I am a grad of one of those who you would argue is not their on current merit or value added. But, Vandy provides the SEC with its academic excellence, and they have won multiple national championships in baseball and bowling, and one in women's tennis. They have been good historically in hoops. They certainly don't add much direct value for football, that's for sure.

But old membership counts. Vandy was a leader of the SEC when it started. So they are in the club and you don't get kicked out of the club. There is no relegation like European soccer. And every conference can't be all top teams ... you have to have some teams that provide fodder for the better teams.

You said some P5s don't deserve a seat at the big boy table, but they do because they are in the club. G5 teams can move up, we've seen it the past decade. But the G5 conferences simply aren't the ones who have built the CFB money, and aren't entitled to it.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Big 12 won’t be at the table either when OU and Texas leave.

Contractually, it appears they will. How long that lasts will be interesting.

 

[Deep Creek]

Contractually, it appears they will. How long that lasts will be interesting.

Contract, schmontract. The Benjamins will tell the story…and they won’t be rolling in to the Bid 12 like they have been. Unless the networks think the LDS national appeal will be worth paying up for. That might lessen the blow a little.

 

[OlyDuck]

They have a seat at the table. They are now P5 schools. It's the existing G5 conferences that aren't going to get sit at the adults table.

so because they got invited they are now worthy?
so if the Pac grabbed 4 MWC schools and the Big 10 2 MAC schools and the ACC got a couple more from AAC they those 8 would suddenly be worthy nothing changes other than a logo on the jersey and som $$

 

[Deep Creek]

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think you are hearing me. Remember that I am a grad of one of those who you would argue is not their on current merit or value added. But, Vandy provides the SEC with its academic excellence, and they have won multiple national championships in baseball and bowling, and one in women's tennis. They have been good historically in hoops. They certainly don't add much direct value for football, that's for sure.

But old membership counts. Vandy was a leader of the SEC when it started. So they are in the club and you don't get kicked out of the club. There is no relegation like European soccer. And every conference can't be all top teams ... you have to have some teams that provide fodder for the better teams.

You said some P5s don't deserve a seat at the big boy table, but they do because they are in the club. G5 teams can move up, we've seen it the past decade. But the G5 conferences simply aren't the ones who have built the CFB money, and aren't entitled to it.

I do hear you. But people acting like those bottom dwellers attract the eyeballs that bring the Benjamins is totally nuts.

If Vandy and Miss State were not in the SEC we would the media contract drop? If Bama and Georgia were not in the SEC would the media contract drop?

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

so because they got invited they are now worthy?
so if the Pac grabbed 4 MWC schools and the Big 10 2 MAC schools and the ACC got a couple more from AAC they those 8 would suddenly be worthy nothing changes other than a logo on the jersey and som $$

Correct. This isn't hard to understand. Every team in a conference doesn't have to contribute evenly. Objectively, they don't. It's why TX and OU are leaving the B12. The contracts are with the conferences for a reason. It's the P5 conferences who have driven up the value of CFB. Not the individual teams, not the G5. If the conferences want to treat their members differently because they are more responsible for the conferences contract value, they can do that. None have done that.

The PAC and the ACC wouldn't do that unless the teams they gran provide value to the conference equal to their shares. That's what the B12 did ... the value of the 4 new teams was worth more than their shares (which shows how bad the B12 without OU and TX have it from a money perspective).

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Contract, schmontract. The Benjamins will tell the story…and they won’t be rolling in to the Bid 12 like they have been. Unless the networks think the LDS national appeal will be worth paying up for. That might lessen the blow a little.

Well, here it is:

Another issue is in play with these college football changes. Will the new Big 12 still be a Power Five conference? Former Big 12 Commissioner, Chuck Neinas recently said, I’m confident the Big 12 is going to retain Power Five status

The Power Five distinction is a well-known dividing line in college football. To an extent, it separates the ‘haves’ from the ‘have nots.’ Technically, the NCAA does not distinguish between Power Five conferences and Group of Five conferences. Instead, in 2014, the NCAA granted what is called the Power Five specified autonomy. That autonomy was defined as,

(SEC, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac 12 schools) are granted autonomy in the following areas to permit the use of resources to advance the legitimate educational or athletics-related needs of student-athletes and for legislative changes that will otherwise enhance student-athlete well-being

Another few hundred words went into the details, but basically, it gave Power Five member institutions more control over themselves and allowed them to spend more money on their athletes than many ‘other’ schools could afford to spend. It also allowed for other changes to be made by the Power Fives. In short, the ‘haves’ were given a degree of autonomy allowing for greater strength and stability of their ‘have’ status.

Power, once gained, is rarely ever voluntarily ceded. The Big 12 does not want to lose its ‘autonomy’ status and join five other conferences as the Group of Six.

Brand power is beyond the control of the NCAA. It is brand power that drives media deals. That reality suggests the future of college football might not include a Power Five group. It might be a Power Four, with the SEC, Big 10, ACC and Pac 12. Or it might become a Power Two, with the SEC at 16-20 teams and the Big 10 at 16-20 teams. Or it might be a Power Two with the SEC at 18-20 teams and the now loosely formed Alliance merged into a large super-Conference.

So for now, the B12 eats with the adults. Could it change? Sure, the other 4 P5 could boot the B12 if they aren't holding their own. But for now, they are P5.

 

[Deep Creek]

Well, here it is:

Another issue is in play with these college football changes. Will the new Big 12 still be a Power Five conference? Former Big 12 Commissioner, Chuck Neinas recently said, I’m confident the Big 12 is going to retain Power Five status

The Power Five distinction is a well-known dividing line in college football. To an extent, it separates the ‘haves’ from the ‘have nots.’ Technically, the NCAA does not distinguish between Power Five conferences and Group of Five conferences. Instead, in 2014, the NCAA granted what is called the Power Five specified autonomy. That autonomy was defined as,

(SEC, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac 12 schools) are granted autonomy in the following areas to permit the use of resources to advance the legitimate educational or athletics-related needs of student-athletes and for legislative changes that will otherwise enhance student-athlete well-being

Another few hundred words went into the details, but basically, it gave Power Five member institutions more control over themselves and allowed them to spend more money on their athletes than many ‘other’ schools could afford to spend. It also allowed for other changes to be made by the Power Fives. In short, the ‘haves’ were given a degree of autonomy allowing for greater strength and stability of their ‘have’ status.

Power, once gained, is rarely ever voluntarily ceded. The Big 12 does not want to lose its ‘autonomy’ status and join five other conferences as the Group of Six.

Brand power is beyond the control of the NCAA. It is brand power that drives media deals. That reality suggests the future of college football might not include a Power Five group. It might be a Power Four, with the SEC, Big 10, ACC and Pac 12. Or it might become a Power Two, with the SEC at 16-20 teams and the Big 10 at 16-20 teams. Or it might be a Power Two with the SEC at 18-20 teams and the now loosely formed Alliance merged into a large super-Conference.

So for now, the B12 eats with the adults. Could it change? Sure, the other 4 P5 could boot the B12 if they aren't holding their own. But for now, they are P5.

They may well be at the adult table. But they’ll be eating hamburger instead of tenderloin.

We shall see when the next media deal is negotiated.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

They may well be at the adult table. But they’ll be eating hamburger instead of tenderloin.

We shall see when the next media deal is negotiated.

We certainly agree on that ... their budgets are going to get cut in at least half.

 

[Goldbug]

Horse hockeyGB (except for the Benjamins…that’s 100% true)

you know the only reason TCU and West Virginia were invited was to get back to 10 teams. They didn’t bring the Benjamins with them. They just mooched off UT and OU like the other 6. And guess what, Miss State etal will now be the moochers.

only a very few schools are making the hay. The others are mooching. And some of them ain’t showing a lot of productivity for the milk they ate getting from those tits.

Let me complete my thought so it's more clear. My point is that if a school wants to move up the ladder they need to make the investment that will allow that move. TCU did that and they are to be commended. But your point is there is a ceiling and I agree with you 100%. At some point anyone, except maybe a dozen schools in the country, has to settle for what they have in hand no matter how hard they might try to better themselves. My gripe is with the small fry who just demand a place at the table. We probably both agree that it's a shame the schools like Jr., Utah, Florida State, Michigan State are what we would call ''7's and 8's" but they will never truly be a consistent 9 or 10. That's OK because every conference needs those teams to be whole. It's the 3's and 4's making demands that really grille my cheese.

 

[CorpRebel]

Let me complete my thought so it's more clear. My point is that if a school wants to move up the ladder they need to make the investment that will allow that move. TCU did that and they are to be commended. But your point is there is a ceiling and I agree with you 100%. At some point anyone, except maybe a dozen schools in the country, has to settle for what they have in hand no matter how hard they might try to better themselves. My gripe is with the small fry who just demand a place at the table. We probably both agree that it's a shame the schools like Jr., Utah, Florida State, Michigan State are what we would call ''7's and 8's" but they will never truly be a consistent 9 or 10. That's OK because every conference needs those teams to be whole. It's the 3's and 4's making demands that really grille my cheese.

Entitlement Mentality at it's finest...
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