- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,626
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
It’s really not that simple for all sorts of reasons. It’s actually so complex an issue even I, king of long winded posts, have no desire to go into it.
Basketball Article But NIL Issue
- Thread starter Wild Turkey
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
That’s the problem with attorneys they always want to make everything complex.
The answer is simple: treat college football as a professional league and acknowledge what we have created.
1. Write the rules at the NCAA and conference level to allow this.
2. You will have to more than likely move mens football and mens basketball to other entities that are independent of the University to get around title IX.
If we don’t take these steps and so it soon the harm to college football will be substantial and the ability for most to compete will be gone. That will kill the sport.
I actually think basketball has a better chance of surviving interest at that point because the numbers are manageable but football will feel the blunt of fan disinterest.
Yeah there's no putting the worms back in can on this
Addison to USC
brobible.com
Edit: on the side note, this is good news for my fantasy team
Addison to USC
Jordan Addison Reportedly Declined Six Figures From SEC Program, Will Receive Big Money From USC
Getty Image It is expected that Pittsburgh wide receiver Jordan Addison will transfer. If/when he does, money is reportedly set to play a huge role. Click
brobible.com
Edit: on the side note, this is good news for my fantasy team
Isn't that what the big boys want?
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
If Nick Saban is saying there is a problem (and trust me he is opening his mouth only because he has less at risk by doing so and he knows this is bad) there is a massive problem. So no I don't think the big boys wanted this and it wouldn't be happening at this level if California wasn't so bat shit crazy and passed the original law.
With the SCOTUS ruling, there is no putting this back into the box so everything has to be fundamentally changed because CFB is headed down a path that is unsustainable and to be fair it would not be sustainable in the NFL either (that's why there are contracts, salary caps, and no unlimited free agency).
So what needs to happen:
1. P5 conferences need to break away and form their own organization to replace the NCAA because what is going to work for them is definitely not going to work for non P5 teams.
2. The new organization is going to be a semi-pro league (if you like it or not)
3. New league will need to do the following:
- Put the kids under contract and pay them
- Have a salary cap for the teams
- Kids can still have independent NIL deals but I'm betting most advertisers and money people will contribute to the schools
This solves the NIL and portal issues. Sucks this is the way to do it but honestly, this is it. Mechanisms like trades, injured reserves and releases will have to be worked out but are doable.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,626
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
Lol … you said it would be “simple” then you outline something this complex. SMH
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
It is simple you just need the leadership, agreement between the P5, and the will to do it. Right now neither of those things exist but let's be honest if they do not act quickly it will only get worse. I don't see where they have a choice and I'm sure they will fart around and try to maintain the status quo without real change but that isn't going to work. So yes the solution is simple, the execution is complex but it is also doable.
Every coach in the country hates the current situation and you have to think a chunk of them are thinking it would be easier to coach in the pros or retiring at this point. There will always be guys to take their place because of the money but careers are going to start getting shorter and shorter because this is a lot to put up with and there have been massive, seismic changes in a very short period of time.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,626
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
Simple, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
JFC ... "the solution is simple, the execution is complex but it is also doable."
You seriously went from:
just let teams pay players, put them under contract and put a cap in place. It is that simple.
To:
The answer is simple: treat college football as a professional league and acknowledge what we have created.
1. Write the rules at the NCAA and conference level to allow this.
2. You will have to more than likely move mens football and mens basketball to other entities that are independent of the University to get around title IX.
and ...
So what needs to happen:
1. P5 conferences need to break away and form their own organization to replace the NCAA because what is going to work for them is definitely not going to work for non P5 teams.
2. The new organization is going to be a semi-pro league (if you like it or not)
3. New league will need to do the following:
- Put the kids under contract and pay them
- Have a salary cap for the teams
- Kids can still have independent NIL deals but I'm betting most advertisers and money people will contribute to the schools
In this one thread, less than one page, you went from simple to complex as you evolved.
You went from the simplicity of simply putting them under contract (as if that were simple) to:
- Rewriting that rules of the NCAA, and the rules of the 10 conferences. Never mind this is a billion dollar organization that is 112 years old. And, the practical finding in Alston basically means the conferences will have to run their own operations and rules. How the hell do you do that when the NCAA can't control it, and the conferences can't meet to coordinate what each is going to do. That's the whole anti-trust aspect of this. Each conference likely has to be it's own entity in order to avoid anti-trust implications.
- Splitting out sports as independent entities ... yeah, that's simple to do ... lol. And, have you ever thought for a moment that the schools don't want to "get around" Title IX? That the expansion of women's sports is desirable?
- You mention the difference between P5 and G5. Imagine how hard that will be ... then think that there is really a Big Two and Little Three in the P5. But I am sure the resolution to that is "simple."
- Finally, all this has to be done whether the fan "likes or not." Yeah, let's do something that the fans have said they won't watch - see Alston - quickly and simply, because hey, who the hell cares what the customer actually wants.
We do agree that something has to be done. I am not denying that. No one would. But you basically gave up the argument when you said the "solution is simple, the execution is complex." What the fuck are you even talking about? It's the execution that matters and as you admit, it's really, really hard and complex.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,626
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
One last thing to address on this sentence ... I find the NCAA to be as feckless as everyone else does. And, yes, they should have acted on this a long time ago in some form or fashion.
But what bothers me is when you and others - especially sports writers - type this like and ignore how utterly complex the solution is. You keep saying it's simple when clearly it isn't. It's easy to be the critic, and to complain, and to say "this is easy to fix" but never offer anything of substance. All you did in your posts is state what you want the outcome to be ... hell, that's easy. It's getting their, or the "execution" of that which is hard, and you admitted that.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
Let's define a simple solution: It is one that I can easily outline in a sports form in fewer words than it usually takes you to talk about Georgia's latest recruit. - Mission accomplishedSimple, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
JFC ... "the solution is simple, the execution is complex but it is also doable."
You seriously went from:
just let teams pay players, put them under contract and put a cap in place. It is that simple.
To:
The answer is simple: treat college football as a professional league and acknowledge what we have created.
1. Write the rules at the NCAA and conference level to allow this.
2. You will have to more than likely move mens football and mens basketball to other entities that are independent of the University to get around title IX.
and ...
So what needs to happen:
1. P5 conferences need to break away and form their own organization to replace the NCAA because what is going to work for them is definitely not going to work for non P5 teams.
2. The new organization is going to be a semi-pro league (if you like it or not)
3. New league will need to do the following:
- Put the kids under contract and pay them
- Have a salary cap for the teams
- Kids can still have independent NIL deals but I'm betting most advertisers and money people will contribute to the schools
In this one thread, less than one page, you went from simple to complex as you evolved.
You went from the simplicity of simply putting them under contract (as if that were simple) to:
- Rewriting that rules of the NCAA, and the rules of the 10 conferences. Never mind this is a billion dollar organization that is 112 years old. And, the practical finding in Alston basically means the conferences will have to run their own operations and rules. How the hell do you do that when the NCAA can't control it, and the conferences can't meet to coordinate what each is going to do. That's the whole anti-trust aspect of this. Each conference likely has to be it's own entity in order to avoid anti-trust implications.
- Splitting out sports as independent entities ... yeah, that's simple to do ... lol. And, have you ever thought for a moment that the schools don't want to "get around" Title IX? That the expansion of women's sports is desirable?
- You mention the difference between P5 and G5. Imagine how hard that will be ... then think that there is really a Big Two and Little Three in the P5. But I am sure the resolution to that is "simple."
- Finally, all this has to be done whether the fan "likes or not." Yeah, let's do something that the fans have said they won't watch - see Alston - quickly and simply, because hey, who the hell cares what the customer actually wants.
We do agree that something has to be done. I am not denying that. No one would. But you basically gave up the argument when you said the "solution is simple, the execution is complex." What the fuck are you even talking about? It's the execution that matters and as you admit, it's really, really hard and complex.
To execute the solution you just need buy-in and that becomes political so yeah complex. That doesn't change the fact that the solution is simple and I haven't seen anyone else come up with something better. Everything else has been to wait and this will calm down (it won't, the money will get less but the issues will increase) or ignoring there is a problem to start with.
The NCAA is dead so just acknowledge it and the P5 should form their own organization. Complex but doable and don't think all of these guys haven't been thinking about it and probably have some contingency plans.
The conferences already have rules they just need to be expanded and coordinated between the other conferences. This could be done in 6 months or less.
Look it's not difficult you take the following conferences:
B1G
SEC
ACC
PAC
B12
Yes two are currently way stronger than the others but it doesn't matter because all they are doing is agreeing upon rules that everyone abides by. Revenue is up to each conference and what they can get. You even have funding to get this going because if you kill the NCAA then the 1 Billion made on the basketball tournament is up for grabs and who better to dictate that?
If the conference commissioners wanted to do this they could do it in a year's time.
This reminds me of a statement a "new" college professor made. He was frustrated at how student needs were being pused aside by faculty that didn't want to change. He said changing the curriculum/graduation requirements at a university takes 75-100 years.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,626
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
You don't seem to understand the Alston ruling, or what anti-trust law is (not that I expect you or anyone else to do so). Without going into a really complex area of law in details, "antitrust laws are statutes developed by governments to protect consumers from predatory business practices and ensure fair competition. Antitrust laws are applied to a wide range of questionable business activities, including market allocation, bid rigging, price fixing, and monopolies." All pro sports except MLB are subject to anti-trust laws. The ruling in Alston effectively indicated the NCAA is.
What I have highlighted is you saying let's get rid of the old NCAA and create a new NCAA. The conferences can't "just" coordinate amongst each other, and can't necessarily agree on rules that everyone abides by. Again, that's just a new NCAA. Obviously the pro sports operate within the anti-trust laws, but they do so by collective bargaining with the players. The crux of the problem for college sports, and this was discussed in Alston, is how do you resolve the anti-trust issues without ruining the sports. A key part of college athletics is the amateur standing, and the uniqueness of playing for their school. There was evidence at the trial court in Alston if that goes away - basically if college sports become pro sports - that fans would not like it and it could damage the sports. There was a lot of discussion of this in the oral arguments. It's exactly why this is everything but "simple."
This is why I have been telling you it isn't easy or simple. The reason that the Alston court hinted at the idea that letting the conferences govern themselves would be acceptable is that if the SEC does something that is more attractive for the players than let's say the ACC, then the players can choose to go to the SEC and get more attractive things. That's being competitive, not anti-competitive. The conferences getting together and agreeing on everything is not in the players best interest and is being anti-competitive, at least with regard to the labor. The exact issue in Alston is instructive. The only thing SCOTUS actually decided in Alston was that with regard to benefits that relate to academics, the NCAA could not place restrictions on what a school could do. A conference could, but the NCAA could not. This means that the day after the Alston ruling, The B1G, ACC or PAC, who claim to care more about academics could have started giving computers and iPads, as well as cash grants to athletes for their academic performance. That is actually what happened, but all the conferences did it. They just can't coordinate with one anther as to what to do. But, giving out academic benefits is easy ... it's not as expensive and most everyone agrees that is a good thing. Paying players is a different thing altogether, and most fans (the customer) are really uneasy about if and how that is done.
The idea this could easily be done in a year is one of the most naïve things I've seen anyone post anywhere. These are complex, very complex legal issues. The ramifications as to how it would affect billions of dollars are huge. There are contracts that have to be unwound. There are Title IX issues that need to be resolved. Each conference has different thoughts on how they want it done. For fucks sake, they can't agree to expand the playoff from 4 to 12 teams, something they have been working on for years, and you expect them to totally reconfigure their multi-billion dollar business in a years. SMH.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
The P5 can absolutely spin themselves off. It’s ridiculous to say they can’t.
The P5 can create what is basically a pro league with a similar but different structure than the NFL.
Title IX is the biggest stumbling block and that’s why there would probably need to a separation between the Athletic department and the school. That’s where the legal challenges are the greatest but it can be done.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,626
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
So you want college football to become a pro league? A district finding of fact in Alston is that isn’t what the consumers of CFB want. That doing so would greatly harm the sport. But it’s “simple” … do what the sports customers don’t want, and damage the sport.
You keep saying it can be done. You have no idea what can or can’t be done, you just say it can because you want it to be. Certainly something will be done, but you’ve proven in this thread it will be anything but simple.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
Let's be clear I don't want college to be a pro league.
That being said it does not matter because college is now a pro league if I don't want it, you don't want it or anyone else doesn't want it. NIL and the portal have fundamentally changed the sport to the point it currently does not represent the game as it was. We are literally a couple of years away from instead of the hat selection ceremonies being held by recruits they will be holding an auction on stage for whoever is willing to pay the most and if those guys are successful they will turn around and hold another auction each offseason.
CFB is now a place where there is no salary cap and unlimited free agency. In what world does that work? The only logical solution is to acknowledge what has taken place and fix it. If you have a better solution than I have outlined then please by all means present it but don't sit back and act smug and pretend it isn't a viable option and claim my solution will damage the sport because that ship has sailed and the damage has been done and its worse than I could have imagined.
When players are making NIL their number one consideration in recruiting and other players that have signed and played with a team are shopping for bigger deals each and every year, it literally can't get any worse. The ONLY viable solution is to recognize the obvious and build a new system that recognizes college football for what it is and that is a semi-pro league and put in restraints and the only way to do that is through contractual obligations of both parties. What has been made public is just a small percentage of what is going on behind the scenes so it is only logical to assume that as bad as we think it currently is the reality is most likely much worse.
It is what it is.
I'm under no illusion this WON"T happen because the people that lead conferences will be petrified to do it but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done and it should be done fast. You're wrong in that it can't be done quickly because it could there simply isn't the will, desire, or vision to do it. The models for it are out there, the infrastructure is being built at every major university as we speak and the revenue is there as well. The only thing left is for realization to set in.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,626
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
I entered this thread for one reason - to point out it isn't simple. I agree that something has to be done. Everyone does. You keep saying that I am wrong, it's simple, yet as you keep posting in the thread more and more things come up that have to be resolved. You literally went from just put them under contract to setup an NFL-type league. In other words, whatever they do, it won't be simple.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
- Posts
- 2,065
- Reaction score
- 4,414
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
My Dad taught me the "5 Rules" plan years ago. When faced with a helluva problem in business (restructuring something, expanding, closing down an operation) don't waste time; pick your 5 most important issues and get started. It will become apparent as you go along that things here and there will need to be tweaked, changed or even put back the way they were to begin with but the key is to get started. Perhaps that's what needs to be done with CFP. Pick a few items that are obvious to everyone and put in some rules that will almost assuredly end up needing to be changed or new rules created on the fly. But doing nothing is a sure recipe for disaster.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 30,978
- Reaction score
- 58,830
- Bookie:
- $ 23,000.00
- Location
- Land of the Red Man
I think it will only take a couple of years until everyone is sick of it and has had enough
That's when it will change.
That's when it will change.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
The worst thing you can do is to be paralyzed by fear and allow it to cause inaction.
@WhosYourDawggy is a typical attorney and caught up in semantics thinking it wins his point but it doesn't. The solution is simple, the execution is complex but if the heads of the conference will grow a set, act like leaders and then they can fix this before it gets much worse.
The problem is they won't because of pity stupidity and you doubt that then just look at the playoff expansion committee. They had it all set to expand and then panic because the SEC added UT and OU. That group will be all concerned that one will become more powerful than another or that the reaction will be negative and someone else will benefit if they speak up. Result they stay silent and are letting it all go to shit.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 30,978
- Reaction score
- 58,830
- Bookie:
- $ 23,000.00
- Location
- Land of the Red Man
I think that is why it will take a couple of years to show everyone how ridiculous it really is.