Basketball Article But NIL Issue

The worst thing you can do is to be paralyzed by fear and allow it to cause inaction.

@WhosYourDawggy is a typical attorney and caught up in semantics thinking it wins his point but it doesn't. The solution is simple, the execution is complex but if the heads of the conference will grow a set, act like leaders and then they can fix this before it gets much worse.

The problem is they won't because of pity stupidity and you doubt that then just look at the playoff expansion committee. They had it all set to expand and then panic because the SEC added UT and OU. That group will be all concerned that one will become more powerful than another or that the reaction will be negative and someone else will benefit if they speak up. Result they stay silent and are letting it all go to shit.
So start with something like this and go from there. This at least defines a student/athlete, when they can transfer, narrows down the portal chaos and makes a reasonable requirement to stay out of trouble. It also puts a bullseye on the coaches and lets the players have some leniency in the event their head coach leaves the program. It also clearly allows the players to make an unlimited (transparent) amount of money which will eventually be better controlled by the donors than a third party. It's a start.

* An athlete must pass at least 12 semester hours in order to receive any NIL benefits.

* The transfer portal would only be open between January 15th and July 1st.

* Only one transfer allowed if an athlete wants to receive NIL benefits. NIL benefits would be lost after a second transfer unless the head coach had changed.

* Stringent penalties on head coaches and assistant coaches for tampering.

* All NIL compensation of any kind from any source would need to be disclosed in a public report filed no later than 60 days after receipt. No exceptions.

* Athletes receiving any NIL benefits would be held to strict standards prohibiting any kind of criminal behavior.

*No limit on the amount of NIL benefits an athlete could receive if they are in full compliance with all rules and regulations.
 
The worst thing you can do is to be paralyzed by fear and allow it to cause inaction.

@WhosYourDawggy is a typical attorney and caught up in semantics thinking it wins his point but it doesn't. The solution is simple, the execution is complex but if the heads of the conference will grow a set, act like leaders and then they can fix this before it gets much worse.

The problem is they won't because of pity stupidity and you doubt that then just look at the playoff expansion committee. They had it all set to expand and then panic because the SEC added UT and OU. That group will be all concerned that one will become more powerful than another or that the reaction will be negative and someone else will benefit if they speak up. Result they stay silent and are letting it all go to shit.
It has nothing to do with me being an attorney. I get that they should have acted before. I get that they should act now. I get that they are a feckless group of leaders for the most part. But, I also understand this is a complex issue, in a complex environment. You don't get that.

You seriously have typed: "The solution is simple, the execution is complex" twice now. That's absurd ... there is no solution without execution. This is really hard. You seem to think they can snap their fingers and have it done. That is incredible naïve.

I'm repeating myself, so I'm done unless you have something new to share.
 
* An athlete must pass at least 12 semester hours in order to receive any NIL benefits. - I don't think they can do that because of the SCOTUS ruling

* The transfer portal would only be open between January 15th and July 1st. - Personally I think that is too big a window but I agree there needs to be a limit

* Only one transfer allowed if an athlete wants to receive NIL benefits. NIL benefits would be lost after a second transfer unless the head coach had changed. - Again I don't think the SCOTUS ruling would allow that

* Stringent penalties on head coaches and assistant coaches for tampering. - Cool but won't stop anything as it didn't stop cheating before

* All NIL compensation of any kind from any source would need to be disclosed in a public report filed no later than 60 days after receipt. No exceptions. - I'd be in favor but don't know if that is enforcable as I'm sure there will be privacy lawsuits

* Athletes receiving any NIL benefits would be held to strict standards prohibiting any kind of criminal behavior. - As it stands that would be have to be written into the NIL benefactor's contract with the athelete and they would have to make the call.

*No limit on the amount of NIL benefits an athlete could receive if they are in full compliance with all rules and regulations. - Again by the SCOTUS ruling I don't think you can put limits on it regardless
See comments above in Bold.

In summary:
1. Really the only thing the NCAA/Conferences potentially have control over would be the portal
2. Everything having to do with NIL is supposed to be not through the school and 100% 3rd party contracts with the NIL Benefactor and the athlete so no one really has any power to do anything with it.

The only way to control this thing is to take CFB to a professional level and put the kids under contract.
 
See comments above in Bold.

In summary:
1. Really the only thing the NCAA/Conferences potentially have control over would be the portal
2. Everything having to do with NIL is supposed to be not through the school and 100% 3rd party contracts with the NIL Benefactor and the athlete so no one really has any power to do anything with it.

The only way to control this thing is to take CFB to a professional level and put the kids under contract.
To clarify, Alston was not about NIL. The only direct holding from Alston is that the NCAA can not limit academic benefits that can be given to student athletes. But, that holding was based on them finding that the NCAA limiting academic benefits was a violation of the Sherman Act.

NIL came into being based on state laws passed in about 30 states. While the timing made it seem that it was related to Alston, it wasn't directly. One could argue that the NCAA didn't fight back due to Alston, but there was simply a practical aspect to them simply giving up.

If anyone is interested I will try to put Alston in layman's terms:

- The Sherman Act prohibits anti-competitive activity.

- To determine if the Act was violated:

(1) the plaintiff (players) have to show the challenged restraint (restricting academic benefits) has a substantial anticompetitive effect - SCOTUS agreed that it did.

(2) then the burden shifts to the defendant (NCAA) to demonstrate the restraint results in procompetitive effects - importantly, SCOTUS agreed that distinguishing college from pro sports was pro-competitive ... this is key ... from the trial court level up, they all agreed that keeping the difference between college and pro sports was vitally important.

(3) the the plaintiff (players) must then show the procompetitive benefit could be achieved through less restrictive means - SCOTUS determined there were less restrictive means, (1) that expanding academic benefits was not seen by the consumers (fans) as making college sports like pro sports, and (2) the decision could be shifted to the conferences where each conference might handle it differently which is good for the players.

Some interesting details:
- For now SCOTUS has accepted the idea that limiting benefits unrelated to education may be price-fixing, but they are reasonable in
light of the possibility that “professional-level cash payments . . . could blur the distinction between college sports
and professional sports and thereby negatively affect consumer demand.” This is the pro v. amateur aspect of the issue. So long as the NCAA/Conferences can show that their product would be harmed by the blurring of this line, they will be able to control non-academic payments.

- I listened to the oral arguments, and most of the justices have a great interest in college sports. They were clear they are wary of the courts micro-managing sports. They are very aware of the distinction between college and pro sports and want to be careful to not blur the lines. This is the main thing the NCAA has working for them and they have to think of a way to compensate the players, without the payment coming from the colleges. Hence their reliance on NIL, even though they have fucked up the way it is being introduced.

- A lot has been made of Kavanaugh's concurrence. There are 9 justices. When 5 or more agree, you have the majority. They write the opinion. The non-majority justices can concur or dissent. To dissent means they disagree with the majority opinion. To concur means you ultimately agree with the majority, but you have other ideas that you want to express. Only the majority opinion is precedent that has to be applied in future cases by the lower courts. The concurrence and dissent are called "dicta" - an observation made by a judge in an opinion that is not necessary to resolve the case, and as such, it is not legally binding on other courts but may still be cited as persuasive (but not binding) authority in future litigation. The fact that no other justices joined Kavanaugh in his concurrence - often several justices will concur - means a lot. If any of the other 8 agreed with Kavanaugh, they could have joined his concurrence. They did not which means they don't agree with his extreme views on this. So, when you hear commentators go on and on about what Kavanaugh stated, remember he is all alone on his thoughts for now.

- I've rarely seen this mentioned, but the players/plaintiffs lost a lot of issues at the trial level. They chose not to cross appeal on these issues. One justice, in particular, hammered them in oral argument on this. They were asked why they didn't cross appeal their loss on collective bargaining, and several other issues that related to direct compensation. Their lawyer admitted he didn't think there was an appetite to change college sports to that degree right now. This is really important, yet few ever mention it.

- For lawyers only ... three lawyers participated in oral argument ... the attorneys for the NCAA and the players, and the Solicitor General who participated in oral argument as amicus curiae. I thought the 2 lawyers were ok, the NCAA's attorney better than the players. But the General ... she was fantastic. She was way better than the other 2 highly paid attorneys, IMO.
 
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One follow up on my post above about Kavanaugh:

I typed:

- A lot has been made of Kavanaugh's concurrence. There are 9 justices. When 5 or more agree, you have the majority. They write the opinion. The non-majority justices can concur or dissent. To dissent means they disagree with the majority opinion. To concur means you ultimately agree with the majority, but you have other ideas that you want to express. Only the majority opinion is precedent that has to be applied in future cases by the lower courts. The concurrence and dissent are called "dicta" - an observation made by a judge in an opinion that is not necessary to resolve the case, and as such, it is not legally binding on other courts but may still be cited as persuasive (but not binding) authority in future litigation. The fact that no other justices joined Kavanaugh in his concurrence - often several justices will concur - means a lot. If any of the other 8 agreed with Kavanaugh, they could have joined his concurrence. They did not which means they don't agree with his extreme views on this. So, when you hear commentators go on and on about what Kavanaugh stated, remember he is all alone on his thoughts for now.

Not a half hour later, I read this in The Athletic:

Avoiding the problems college football is wrestling with now would mean holding firm to a system that the Supreme Court described in the same way that anyone who could hold their nose long enough to closely examine would see, too.

“The NCAA’s business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America,” Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote in his concurring opinion. “The NCAA is not above the law.”

SCOTUS held no such thing, but here you have a writer in The Athletic saying they did. One justice said that, and it isn't precedence. The other 8 justices don't agree with him. But, if you aren't a lawyer you likely would think that SCOTUS held that. It's maddening.
 
My Dad taught me the "5 Rules" plan years ago. When faced with a helluva problem in business (restructuring something, expanding, closing down an operation) don't waste time; pick your 5 most important issues and get started. It will become apparent as you go along that things here and there will need to be tweaked, changed or even put back the way they were to begin with but the key is to get started. Perhaps that's what needs to be done with CFP. Pick a few items that are obvious to everyone and put in some rules that will almost assuredly end up needing to be changed or new rules created on the fly. But doing nothing is a sure recipe for disaster.
Good advice. And sometimes you just need to shake this sucker and start completely over.
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See comments above in Bold.

In summary:
1. Really the only thing the NCAA/Conferences potentially have control over would be the portal
2. Everything having to do with NIL is supposed to be not through the school and 100% 3rd party contracts with the NIL Benefactor and the athlete so no one really has any power to do anything with it.

The only way to control this thing is to take CFB to a professional level and put the kids under contract.
Do that and I'm gone. My wife and I will double up on contributions to the scholastic side of OU but the athletic department will not receive another dime. I have seen too many students and their families struggle financially to get them through college and if the system changes to the point that these "student/athletes" are raking in a fortune for playing sports just because they hit the genetic lottery I'll opt out. And if they get to the point where they aren't even considered to be students anymore it would really be a deal killer. Most of this is all academic anyway; the government will get its hooks into college sports and it will turn into a total clusterf__k.
Good advice. Abd sometimes you just need to shake this sucker and start completely over.
View attachment 70506
I loved Etch A Sketch. My sister could make a good looking circle but mine all sucked. I mean really sucked.
 
i mean at some point some kid is gonna say i want more money or im gonna transfer, they enter the portal and no one else wants anything to do with them and their money demands. some of these kids will be in for a serious wake up call.
 
Do that and I'm gone. My wife and I will double up on contributions to the scholastic side of OU but the athletic department will not receive another dime. I have seen too many students and their families struggle financially to get them through college and if the system changes to the point that these "student/athletes" are raking in a fortune for playing sports just because they hit the genetic lottery I'll opt out. And if they get to the point where they aren't even considered to be students anymore it would really be a deal killer. Most of this is all academic anyway; the government will get its hooks into college sports and it will turn into a total clusterf__k.

I loved Etch A Sketch. My sister could make a good looking circle but mine all sucked. I mean really sucked.
We’re there.

Tennessee lured Nico Lamaleava for 8 million in NIL.

aTm is on the hook for 30 million when their latest recruiting class hits campus.

If it doesn’t change in a hurry a handful of programs are going to buy themselves championships and everyone is going to playing for participation trophies. Even if you’re in the handful what fun is that?

My interest has never been lower in CFB.
 
We’re there.

Tennessee lured Nico Lamaleava for 8 million in NIL.

aTm is on the hook for 30 million when their latest recruiting class hits campus.

If it doesn’t change in a hurry a handful of programs are going to buy themselves championships and everyone is going to playing for participation trophies. Even if you’re in the handful what fun is that?

My interest has never been lower in CFB.
It's like watching a loved one destroy their health right in front of you and everything you tell them just goes in one ear and out the other one. It's demoralizing. At what point do you try not to get angry or give up on them but you do start turning off some emotional switches?
 
It's like watching a loved one destroy their health right in front of you and everything you tell them just goes in one ear and out the other one. It's demoralizing. At what point do you try not to get angry or give up on them but you do start turning off some emotional switches?
I’m turning off the emotional switch. I’ll be engaged but I’m not going to let it be as important as it has in the past.

Its out of my control so worrying about it is a pointless endeavor.
 
We’re there.

Tennessee lured Nico Lamaleava for 8 million in NIL.

aTm is on the hook for 30 million when their latest recruiting class hits campus.

If it doesn’t change in a hurry a handful of programs are going to buy themselves championships and everyone is going to playing for participation trophies. Even if you’re in the handful what fun is that?

My interest has never been lower in CFB.
It takes more than a few players. It takes multiple classes highly rated. Do they have enough money to do that year in and year out? Then you have culture of players there for the money … and not everyone is getting it. Then you have that all the top schools will be doing it and catching up. We’ll see, but I think we’ll get by it in a few years.
 
It takes more than a few players. It takes multiple classes highly rated. Do they have enough money to do that year in and year out? Then you have culture of players there for the money … and not everyone is getting it. Then you have that all the top schools will be doing it and catching up. We’ll see, but I think we’ll get by it in a few years.
It will only get worse. The amounts will come down but they will have to spread out further and further and we'll see where the minimum for a P5 85roster slot is worth 100K per kid.

If you want a model for how this will escalate just review the history of the Southwest Conference.

SMU is going to look like chump change and teams are going to long for their issues before this is over.
 
It takes more than a few players. It takes multiple classes highly rated. Do they have enough money to do that year in and year out? Then you have culture of players there for the money … and not everyone is getting it. Then you have that all the top schools will be doing it and catching up. We’ll see, but I think we’ll get by it in a few years.
What will happen eventually is kids that don't get paid what they feel they are worth are going to start to cry racism if a white QB makes more than them and equate CFB to slavery (even though they are making 100K). If you don't believe me just look at the NFL because those types of ridiculous claims get thrown out every day.
 
It takes more than a few players. It takes multiple classes highly rated. Do they have enough money to do that year in and year out? Then you have culture of players there for the money … and not everyone is getting it. Then you have that all the top schools will be doing it and catching up. We’ll see, but I think we’ll get by it in a few years.
Optimist
It will only get worse. The amounts will come down but they will have to spread out further and further and we'll see where the minimum for a P5 85roster slot is worth 100K per kid.

If you want a model for how this will escalate just review the history of the Southwest Conference.

SMU is going to look like chump change and teams are going to long for their issues before this is over.
Pessimist

I'm going to have to say I'm leaning more toward agreeing with the drunk bird you old hairy dawg. The longer this thing runs the harder it'll be to reel it back in...at least to a sensible level. At some point it has got to hurt the regular contributions to the athletic program overall.
 
Optimist

Pessimist

I'm going to have to say I'm leaning more toward agreeing with the drunk bird you old hairy dawg. The longer this thing runs the harder it'll be to reel it back in...at least to a sensible level. At some point it has got to hurt the regular contributions to the athletic program overall.
And trust me on this one: the student support for athletics will take a nose dive.

We already see it at some schools but when the athletes are skating around campus taking pud courses and raking in millions there won't be an emotional connection anymore between the average student and the players. It will evaporate. And then we'll hear all kinds of excuses for this happening but the real reason is the kids busting their ass to pay their college expenses will resent the mercenaries and won't be afraid to voice their displeasure. Heaven only knows where it goes from there.......except for a guarantee that the government will be asked to step in and make it all better. LMAO
 
Optimist

Pessimist

I'm going to have to say I'm leaning more toward agreeing with the drunk bird you old hairy dawg. The longer this thing runs the harder it'll be to reel it back in...at least to a sensible level. At some point it has got to hurt the regular contributions to the athletic program overall.
From the NCAA perspective, it looks like they are going to start trying at least. As someone in the article says, and something you learn the 1st week of law school, you can't have rules and not enforce them.


As for ATM and UTjr, you do have to have multiple years of stacked classes. That ensures that you have enough balance across the whole team. ATM has an unreal class last year, UTjr has simply purchased a few players, one of whom won't even be on campus until 2023.

Finally, my guess is that this will smooth out because:

- The NCAA will tighten things up a bit
- Other teams will catch up with the ones out ahead once some guardrails are in place
- Let's see what this does to the culture of teams where the school was selected strictly based on money.
- Other aspects still matter - coaching, facilities, NFL path, PT, etc. Dumbo has shown he can win, but Chumly at UTjr hasn't.
 
What will happen eventually is kids that don't get paid what they feel they are worth are going to start to cry racism if a white QB makes more than them and equate CFB to slavery (even though they are making 100K). If you don't believe me just look at the NFL because those types of ridiculous claims get thrown out every day.
I am not sure about the racism part, but certainly there will be some envy in the locker room.
 
I am not sure about the racism part, but certainly there will be some envy in the locker room.
You've got NFL players crying slavery so it's a given that it will happen.
 
I just don't see the NCAA being able to regulate this. And congress/state legislatures/assemblies or whatever they are called don't seem interested in stepping in either. Soooooooooooooooooo, let the free market work. Isn't that what we are all about?
 
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