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It's like I'm going to law school up in here.
Big 12 thread
- Thread starter Thiefery
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"iF A TrUcK fRoM dElEwArE HiTs yOu iN OkLaHOmA"
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What this is is when we go against a pro se plaintiff who thinks he knows something about the law when he doesn't. He isn't making a lick of sense, but thinks he is.
There gets to a point where it isn't worth the time. 40 years of law school and being a lawyer and he thinks he knows this better than me. I'm out. He doesn't have the intellect to understand what I am saying. Nothing I can do about that.
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^^^ Surrendered ^^^
LMAO!!
LMAO!!
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Why do I do this to myself? Last shot for some clarity ... don't TLDR ... read the post, you might learn something. As I said, Conflicts of Laws is a huge area of law because it's not as simple as you want to make it out to be.
1. The jurisdiction is likely specified in the GOR. If it is, that is where any actions based on the GOR would take place.
2. If not, then the rules of general jurisdiction apply.
Specifically, a 2021 U.S. Supreme Court decision, a late-December Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision, and a New Year’s Eve veto of hostile legislation by New York Governor Kathy Hochul have defined the domain of places where a company may be forced to defend itself in court in clearer terms than ever. A plaintiff may sue a corporate defendant — for-profit or non-profit — in courts located: (1) in the company’s home state, meaning the state of incorporation or in which the company maintains its principal place of business; and (2) in those states where the company systematically served that state’s market for a specific company product or service that gives rise, in-state, to the lawsuit.
“General jurisdiction” is the power of the court to adjudicate any claim over which the court has subject-matter jurisdiction against a corporation, regardless of where the claim arose. Thus, for example, a Delaware company with a principal place of business in New York can be sued for all manner of claims in Delaware and New York, regardless of where the action arose. Taken together, U.S. Supreme Court rulings hold that general jurisdiction over a corporation exists only in states where the company’s continuous operations are so substantial and of such a nature as to “justify suit against it on causes of action arising from dealings entirely distinct from those activities.”
So, the lawsuit could take place in either Texas or Delaware. That creates the conflict of laws I referred to several times. Look at this from a commonsense perspective. Why would a bunch of schools in the Southwest, that are in a conference that is based in Irving, Texas, be forced to go to Delaware, 1500 miles away, to litigate over things that have never happened in Delaware, and when all the parties have never done anything in Delaware except file some papers. That is why jurisdiction can be in the state of incorporation (Delaware) OR the state of the domicile (Texas). In this case, where there have been zero B12 operations in the State of Delaware, no B12 teams are domiciled in Delaware, none of the GOR issues took place in Delaware, all the B12's continuous operations took place in Texas, the Delaware courts would defer to the Texas courts. They would say that there is nothing about the case that ties it to Delaware and everything that ties it to Texas.
To your credit, you googled a bunch of stuff that, on the surface, looks like it supports your position. But that's why lawyers get paid big bucks to understand the complexities of issues like these. It takes more than an hour on google to understand something as complex as this. Hell, thousands and thousands of dollars were spent in the Maryland ACC and WVa Big East cases arguing over jurisdiction, so even the lawyers are willing to argue about it. But you are wrong in your insistence that by simply filing papers in some far away state you can force everyone to go litigate there. The judicial system favors orderly justice (hard to believe that sometimes), but it is true, and that is why this case wouldn't be ultimately litigated in Delaware.
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If it's $80 million to leave for just one year then just stay. No big deal. And it will be an big FU when you guys win the conference in basketball and we win it in football, softball, baseball, golf, and gymnastics on our way out.
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Ugh... I have been hearing this a lot about Big12. OU football was 6-7 last year. I think you guys will be better in 2023 but not "win the Big12" better. In Basketball, Big12 has Kansas who is always a threat to win that league. You also have Baylor and Texas Tech who have had solid bball teams lately. Big12 is still a great basketball league, even without OU and Texas.
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My horns are in 1st place in both mens and womens bball right now.. Men play at KU tonight..
I agree, the Big12 won't skip a beat in basketball. They also should be a good football conference too, at least to watch during the season. I do think the talent gap will continue to widen without UT and ou in conference.
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I agree with what you are saying but I don't put this on the conference. They want to get a deal done for '24. However they aren't going to do it without FOX blessings or they will withhold the full amount they pay the conference with ou and UT.
They already have done some fuckery with officials in certain games... if they get nixed because of FOX, they likely will take it out on us since we did not give in to FOX demands.. officiating and scheduling for '24 would be something else lol
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I think with football the $$$ hit will eventually impact them heavily. I don't think it is going to be as impactful in Basketball though and I think they will still be a major force in that sport.
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I want you to come in as soon as they go to 12 teams. The idea all along was to sync up UT and OU coming into the SEC with (1) the change of our scheduling, and (2) the expansion of the CFP. I don't think at any time they anticipated OU and UT coming into the SEC with divisions and a 4 team CFP.
LSU, Bama and UGA have all won NCs and gone undefeated since 2019. Once we go to a 9 game IC schedule, and get away from divisions, you just won't see that any more. When UGA/Bama/LSU have to play every other team at least every other year, including UT and OU, going undefeated will almost be impossible.
This is a sample of our schedule every other year:
UF, AU, USCjr // Bama, UT, ATM, MSU, Ky, Arky
UF, AU, USCjr // LSU, OU, UTjr, OM, Mizzou, Vandy
The chances of going undefeated having to play that many good teams each year just aren't good. TV inventory will be out of this world, and that is why we will get huge dollars for TV. But the SEC champ is going to have a loss or two.
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OU lost a lot of one possession games last year. The rest of the Big 12 losses a lot and OU is adding a lot, especially on defense. Mark it down OU will beat texas this year in football.
As far as basketball texas seems to have their shit together. Even with Coach Choke gone. OU sucks but have beaten 3 SEC teams this year including #2 Alabama by 30 points. I think texas and OU are currently 1-2 in the standing in womens basketball.
OU will dominate the SEC is softball, they already do. Nobody is stopping that machine and the same for mens and women gymnastics.
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Red Raiders have been good the past few years. But this year they are on the struggle bus. Only have one Big 12 win so far! But it was ISU so there’s that.
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Oklahoma football will be better but I think it is a tall leap to say you will go from 6-7 to Big12 Champions. I could be wrong and some of the stronger Big12 teams from 2022 should be down (notably TCU). I would think Kansas State would be the favorite in 2023 followed by Texas. Not sure what happened to Oklahoma State in 2022 but they were very disappointing. Sometimes the disappointing teams will bounce back the following year. Baylor could also be sleeper.
Big12 in Basketball will be fine even after OU and Texas leave. OU and Texas have good basketball but they were not great (i.e. making Final Fours and winning National Titles). Kansas is truly the only great program but Baylor won a National Title recently and Texas Tech had that Final Four run. Kansas State and Iowa State are NOT slouches either and TCU seems to be pulling their weight. They also add Cincinnati who has a great basketball history. BYU, Houston, and UCF have all made noise in basketball at some point.
Big12 wills till be towards top in Basketball. I do see the Big12 struggling to keep pace with B1G and SEC (and perhaps ACC if ACC survives) in the long-term for football. They will look a lot like the Big East from 2002 - 2011 or so in that they will likely have a sleeper program or 2 in the playoffs every year but won't be a big player in scheme of things. Pac12 may fall into that category as well if it survives.
Regarding Basketball, OU-Alabama is not a good barometer. On that same day, Tennessee drilled Texas. That says more about Alabama than about Oklahoma. Kansas is still the royalty of the Big 12 for Basketball, IMO, and even with their recent struggles, I would still not count them out.
Overall, Big12 will lose some credibility with OU and Texas gone but I don't think they will be a sinking ship and I don't think OU and Texas are going to just dominate the league over next 2 years.
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Yeah Big12-SEC Challenge is great for basketball but not great barometer always for the league strength because you can get unfavorable matchups. This happened last year with SEC winning like 7-3 or something but the Big12 was a far better league last year. I would say Big12 is still better this year as well but SEC was probably better than their 3-7 outing showed. Sad thing is that 2 of those 3 wins by the SEC were upsets (Miss State over # 11 TCU and Missouri over #12 Iowa State). Oklahoma is still a 13-11 or something team, they would be about the same level (maybe slightly better) in the SEC despite the fact Alabama laid an egg.
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"Why would a bunch of schools in the Southwest, that are in a conference that is based in Irving, Texas, be forced to go to Delaware, 1500 miles away, to litigate over things that have never happened in Delaware, and when all the parties have never done anything in Delaware except file some papers. That is why jurisdiction can be in the state of incorporation (Delaware) OR the state of the domicile (Texas). In this case, where there have been zero B12 operations in the State of Delaware, no B12 teams are domiciled in Delaware, none of the GOR issues took place in Delaware, all the B12's continuous operations took place in Texas, the Delaware courts would defer to the Texas courts. They would say that there is nothing about the case that ties it to Delaware and everything that ties it to Texas." - @WhosYourDawggy
LOL FFS
I already told you why.
Here...... https://hooplanation.com/threads/big-12-thread.465/page-156#post-1319581
And Here..... https://hooplanation.com/threads/big-12-thread.465/page-156#post-1319585
Apparently the hot shot atty (cough cough) can't read a fucking contract.
Legal matters involving the Big 12's internal governance WILL be heard in Delaware courts.
Why? Because all members signed the contract stating such. That the entire conference WILL be governed by Delaware Bylaws.
Yet hotshot atty comes at me with some strawman of "iF A TrUcK fRoM A dElEwArE CoRpOrAtiON HiTs yOu iN NeBrAsKa yOU DoN't hAvE To gO To dELaWaRe To sUe ThEm"
Of course I don't. I could sue them in Nebraska because I'm not a part of that Delaware corporation. I've never signed anything tying myself to that Delaware corporation. I'm not a part of that corporation's Bylaws and therefore I'm not bound to said Bylaws in any way.
Every Big 12 team signed the contract stating that Delaware Bylaws would be used to settle any and all disputes. The Big 12 Board of Directors are also bound to Delaware Bylaws. They themselves signed the document stating as such. If the Big 12 BOD is reviewing a dispute with or between two or more conference members they use Delaware Bylaws to settle the dispute. NOT tejas Bylaws. They don't even open a tejas law book because it would be a waste of their time.
I actually agree with @Thiefery in that this 'never sees court'. However, not for his reasoning.
It won't see court because TX/OU aren't going to the SEC before 2025 when the GOR expires. The TX/OU athletic departments are NOT going to take the $80 million(+) haircut that would certainly be given them by Delaware courts. IF it ever does see court it WILL be heard in Delaware.
One more time for the back of the class..... TX/OU are part of a Delaware corporation that governs itself entirely with Delaware Bylaws. They signed a contract agreeing to such. NOT tejas Bylaws, NOT Oklahoma Bylaws, NOT Iowa Bylaws, NOT Kansas Bylaws, NOT West Virginia Bylaws.
LOL FFS
I already told you why.
Here...... https://hooplanation.com/threads/big-12-thread.465/page-156#post-1319581
And Here..... https://hooplanation.com/threads/big-12-thread.465/page-156#post-1319585
Apparently the hot shot atty (cough cough) can't read a fucking contract.
Legal matters involving the Big 12's internal governance WILL be heard in Delaware courts.
Why? Because all members signed the contract stating such. That the entire conference WILL be governed by Delaware Bylaws.
Yet hotshot atty comes at me with some strawman of "iF A TrUcK fRoM A dElEwArE CoRpOrAtiON HiTs yOu iN NeBrAsKa yOU DoN't hAvE To gO To dELaWaRe To sUe ThEm"
Of course I don't. I could sue them in Nebraska because I'm not a part of that Delaware corporation. I've never signed anything tying myself to that Delaware corporation. I'm not a part of that corporation's Bylaws and therefore I'm not bound to said Bylaws in any way.
Every Big 12 team signed the contract stating that Delaware Bylaws would be used to settle any and all disputes. The Big 12 Board of Directors are also bound to Delaware Bylaws. They themselves signed the document stating as such. If the Big 12 BOD is reviewing a dispute with or between two or more conference members they use Delaware Bylaws to settle the dispute. NOT tejas Bylaws. They don't even open a tejas law book because it would be a waste of their time.
I actually agree with @Thiefery in that this 'never sees court'. However, not for his reasoning.
It won't see court because TX/OU aren't going to the SEC before 2025 when the GOR expires. The TX/OU athletic departments are NOT going to take the $80 million(+) haircut that would certainly be given them by Delaware courts. IF it ever does see court it WILL be heard in Delaware.
One more time for the back of the class..... TX/OU are part of a Delaware corporation that governs itself entirely with Delaware Bylaws. They signed a contract agreeing to such. NOT tejas Bylaws, NOT Oklahoma Bylaws, NOT Iowa Bylaws, NOT Kansas Bylaws, NOT West Virginia Bylaws.
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That is because these media rights contracts/payouts are fluid. The Big 12 gets a percentage of the fiscal year revenue earned by the broadcasters for airing their content. If the broadcaster makes less then obviously they pay the Big 12 less. If the broadcaster makes more then the conference gets paid more.
However, that doesn't matter to the Big 12 because TX/OU will be paying a penalty TO THE BIG 12 that supplements what the Big 12 won't be receiving from the broadcasters.