Can we stop pretending that James Franklin is anything but an average coach now?

[We Are Decent]

The level of talent (per recruiting rankings) between Iowa St and Penn St is wide

2021 (True Freshmen)
Penn St: #21
Iowa St: #59

2020
Penn St: #15
Iowa St: #46

2019
Penn St: #12
Iowa St: #46

2018
Penn St: #6
Iowa St: #55

2017 (Redshirt or Super Seniors)
Penn St: #15
Iowa St: #52

What Campbell has done is admirable, except with what I said, is that Campbell wouldn't change much. What are the biggest complaints against Franklin?

We can't get over the Ohio State Hump? Campbell can't get over the Oklahoma hump, being 2-4 against them and 0 conference championships to show for it.

Can't beat rivals? Campbell is 3-8 against rivals, failing to even beat the Hawkeyes just one time.

Can't win in the big games? Campbell is 10-14 against ranked opponents, 1-4 against Top 10 opponents since 2017.

Not finishing as high as the fandom wants? Campbell has only finished ranked once, being at #9, people still wanted Franklin to be fired back at 2019 for finishing at #9.

This isn't a diss at Campbell, dude is great, but the reasons that people want Franklin to be gone for don't seem to be resolved Campbell, so far you can say he develops better in terms of recruiting to results, but even that is somewhat raises an eye as ISU has only had three NFL draft picks in the Campbell era, which is unironically a fraction of the amount Penn State can produce in a year.

Bottom line, Campbell is great for Iowa State, a good coach overall, but is it really in Penn State's best interests to do coach hopping and hope results change sooner vs later? I think that's the mess Texas & Florida has got themselves into over the pass decade.

I think I'm just a fan of a program in which I recognize Penn State would be the team to finish fourth place behind the podium in most categories, even on a historical basis, which is why I've always been less harsh on Franklin even after the late season disasters of 2017-2019 and the beginnings of the 2020 season. I don't expect the team to be like the 94' or 86', or heck even 73', I just expect them to preform the best they're capable of. Sometimes Franklin misses and sometimes he hits gold. That's been the story of Penn State Football for 30 years about now, and the story of Football in general imo.

Now that I'm done with my two cents, I'm sure others would disagree & that's fine, but like I intend, if you want to replace Franklin with a coach that can get to the next level, get a coach that has proven that.

 

[ralphiewvu]

What Campbell has done is admirable, except with what I said, is that Campbell wouldn't change much. What are the biggest complaints against Franklin?

We can't get over the Ohio State Hump? Campbell can't get over the Oklahoma hump, being 2-4 against them and 0 conference championships to show for it.

Can't beat rivals? Campbell is 3-8 against rivals, failing to even beat the Hawkeyes just one time.

Can't win in the big games? Campbell is 10-14 against ranked opponents, 1-4 against Top 10 opponents since 2017.

Not finishing as high as the fandom wants? Campbell has only finished ranked once, being at #9, people still wanted Franklin to be fired back at 2019 for finishing at #9.

This isn't a diss at Campbell, dude is great, but the reasons that people want Franklin to be gone for don't seem to be resolved Campbell, so far you can say he develops better in terms of recruiting to results, but even that is somewhat raises an eye as ISU has only had three NFL draft picks in the Campbell era, which is unironically a fraction of the amount Penn State can produce in a year.

Bottom line, Campbell is great for Iowa State, a good coach overall, but is it really in Penn State's best interests to do coach hopping and hope results change sooner vs later? I think that's the mess Texas & Florida has got themselves into over the pass decade.

I think I'm just a fan of a program in which I recognize Penn State would be the team to finish fourth place behind the podium in most categories, even on a historical basis, which is why I've always been less harsh on Franklin even after the late season disasters of 2017-2019 and the beginnings of the 2020 season. I don't expect the team to be like the 94' or 86', or heck even 73', I just expect them to preform the best they're capable of. Sometimes Franklin misses and sometimes he hits gold. That's been the story of Penn State Football for 30 years about now, and the story of Football in general imo.

Now that I'm done with my two cents, I'm sure others would disagree & that's fine, but like I intend, if you want to replace Franklin with a coach that can get to the next level, get a coach that has proven that.

I actually agree with some of your statements, but for the love of God Franklin is a horrible game day coach. He continually gets top 15 classes in to PSU (minimum top 3 in the B1G) and continually loses or plays close to teams he should destroy.

Franklin is living off 2016. The luck against both Minnesota and OSU turned a looking like dreadful season around.
There was zero reason PSU should have lost 1 regular season game in 2017. And now here we are, looking at another mediocre season when most of the teams they play PSU had WAY more talent then.

I agree PSU shouldn’t fire Franklin unless they have a clear better upgrade. But pretending Matt Campbell isn’t as good of a coach as Franklin is complete bullshit.

Campbell > Franklin

 

[Thiefery]

Well it's Iowa St. for one. They're competing for in-state recruits with Iowa. Much the same that Sparty is competing with Michigan and Ohio St for Michigan in-stater's.

There may also be a level of other coaches telling recruits that Campbell will likely be taking a different job and may not be their coach in their 1, 2, 3, 4, years in Ames.

Campbell can't recruit, but he can hit evals pretty nicely.. mix that in with the grad/portal.. he can field a solid to really good team.... that has some WTF losses every season despite beating the big names of the conference

 

[We Are Decent]

I actually agree with some of your statements, but for the love of God Franklin is a horrible game day coach. He continually gets top 15 classes in to PSU (minimum top 3 in the B1G) and continually loses or plays close to teams he should destroy.

I feel as if this is only sporadic though, despite yesterday's loss, Franklin has had the upper hand against Harbaugh in recent memory and assuming Penn State can somehow beat Michigan State during Thanksgiving weekend then the same applies to MSU. There's years in which Franklin coaches a Top 10 team and they finish as a Top 10 team and there's years when he doesn't. Consistent? No. But not much you can do in terms of improvement with who's out to hire.

There was zero reason PSU should have lost 1 regular season game in 2017.

? MSU was a disaster but the game against OSU was pretty great and they won fair & square.

And now here we are, looking at another mediocre season when most of the teams they play PSU had WAY more talent then.

Sure, but to me, finishing with any bowl game and coming away with the trash talk/bragging rights against Wisconsin, SEC, Maryland, and hopefully Rutgers/Michigan State is enough for me. Some Penn State fans might call my head but I see our four losses against to three Top 6 teams and one disaster. There's so much worse that could've happened lol.

I agree PSU shouldn’t fire Franklin unless they have a clear better upgrade. But pretending Matt Campbell isn’t as good of a coach as Franklin is complete bullshit.

Campbell > Franklin

Like I said Campbell is great, but for Iowa State. If he replaces Franklin I would love to be wrong (win-win for me anyway) but as you agreed on, it needs to be a better upgrade, and I don't think Campbell proved that in his time with Iowa State.

 

[ralphiewvu]

I feel as if this is only sporadic though, despite yesterday's loss, Franklin has had the upper hand against Harbaugh in recent memory and assuming Penn State can somehow beat Michigan State during Thanksgiving weekend then the same applies to MSU. There's years in which Franklin coaches a Top 10 team and they finish as a Top 10 team and there's years when he doesn't. Consistent? No. But not much you can do in terms of improvement with who's out to hire.


? MSU was a disaster but the game against OSU was pretty great and they won fair & square.


Sure, but to me, finishing with any bowl game and coming away with the trash talk/bragging rights against Wisconsin, SEC, Maryland, and hopefully Rutgers/Michigan State is enough for me. Some Penn State fans might call my head but I see our four losses against to three Top 6 teams and one disaster. There's so much worse that could've happened lol.


Like I said Campbell is great, but for Iowa State. If he replaces Franklin I would love to be wrong (win-win for me anyway) but as you agreed on, it needs to be a better upgrade, and I don't think Campbell proved that in his time with Iowa State.

Dude, Franklins 3-3 vs Harbaugh. That’s not terrible and I’m not giving him shit for it but to say he has the upper hand lately is misleading. The last 4 it’s 2-2. Again not terrible but it’s not an upper hand. I don’t see PSU’s offense scoring enough to win at MSU however I could see it as a possibility. A win though (assuming Rutgers is a win) lands him at 8-4. Not horrible but for where some of these losses came from that’s going to get him some shit and rightfully so.

MSU was a disaster, but there was no reason to blow it at OSU like that. Christ it was a 3 td game at one point if memory serves me right.

That third paragraph I think you’re nuts on. Wisconsin maybe given how they’ve competed since the 90’s but Maryland, Rutgers, MSU??? GMFB. Change MSU to UM and Maryland to OSU and forget Rutgers lol. But too each their own.

I do think Campbell is an upgrade but how much I’m not sure and I would just can Franklin for him. But campbells a better coach while franklins a better recruiter.

Of course he shouldn’t be fired but if He wants to go somewhere else, I’d let him go on the cheap if I were PSU.

 

[We Are Decent]

but to say he has the upper hand lately is misleading.

mans 3-2 in last 5 am I wrong?

That third paragraph I think you’re nuts on. Wisconsin maybe given how they’ve competed since the 90’s but Maryland, Rutgers, MSU??? GMFB. Change MSU to UM and Maryland to OSU and forget Rutgers lol. But too each their own.

Preventing Shitland and Shitgers fans from having bragging rights means a lot more to you once you know the culture.

 

[7samurai13]

mans 3-2 in last 5 am I wrong?

Preventing Shitland and Shitgers fans from having bragging rights means a lot more to you once you know the culture.

If you want to cherry pick sure. He is 3-5 against Michigan (3-4 against Harbaugh). Franklin is 3-4 against Michigan State, 4-2 against Iowa, 3-0 against Wisconsin.

 

[ralphiewvu]

mans 3-2 in last 5 am I wrong?

Preventing Shitland and Shitgers fans from having bragging rights means a lot more to you once you know the culture.

It’s misleading, they have played 6 times total and he is 3-3. Why not say that? Pretending that last game doesn’t exist makes you look like a cherrypicker.

Yeah I’m familiar with the culture. Pretending Maryland or Rutgers was ever a competitive rival to the point where OSU and Michigan are is laughable. It’s like considering WVU a rival. This isn’t the 80’s anymore champ.

 

[7samurai13]

It’s misleading, they have played 6 times total and he is 3-3. Why not say that? Pretending that last game doesn’t exist makes you look like a cherrypicker.

Yeah I’m familiar with the culture. Pretending Maryland or Rutgers was ever a competitive rival to the point where OSU and Michigan are is laughable. It’s like considering WVU a rival. This isn’t the 80’s anymore champ.

He has played Michigan 8 times and went 3-5 against them.

 

[ralphiewvu]

He has played Michigan 8 times and went 3-5 against them.

We were talking him vs harbaugh. But my mistake he is 3-4 vs Harbaugh, not 3-3.

 

[Red_Alert]

If you want to cherry pick sure. He is 3-5 against Michigan (3-4 against Harbaugh). Franklin is 3-4 against Michigan State, 4-2 against Iowa, 3-0 against Wisconsin.

0-1 against Frost

 

[We Are Decent]

If you want to cherry pick sure. He is 3-5 against Michigan (3-4 against Harbaugh). Franklin is 3-4 against Michigan State, 4-2 against Iowa, 3-0 against Wisconsin.

None of what I listed was cherry picking but go off.

 

[We Are Decent]

It’s misleading, they have played 6 times total and he is 3-3. Why not say that? Pretending that last game doesn’t exist makes you look like a cherrypicker.

It's not cherrypicking, as I clarified it was in recent times which is statistically five years and statistically Franklin has won more.

it's not hard to put 1 and 1 together.

Yeah I’m familiar with the culture. Pretending Maryland or Rutgers was ever a competitive rival to the point where OSU and Michigan are is laughable. It’s like considering WVU a rival. This isn’t the 80’s anymore champ.

? They're not a competitive rival, in fact it's the whole reason why Penn State should never lose bragging rights to those who aren't competitive rivals. Now that would be pathetic.

Ralphie, why are you always this dumb whenever we talk lol.

 

[Fredmccallyrtr]

James Franklin, Penn State could 'mutually part ways' with USC, LSU jobs open, insider says

...

247sports.com

 

[RoyMunson]

Good recruiter, shitty gameday coach.

too often his teams play down to inferior opponents, and we've all seen his record vs top 10 opponents.

One of these years he'll hit on a QB prospect and have an above average QB... I hope it's when we have a D this stingy again.

 

[ralphiewvu]

It's not cherrypicking, as I clarified it was in recent times which is statistically five years and statistically Franklin has won more.

it's not hard to put 1 and 1 together.

? They're not a competitive rival, in fact it's the whole reason why Penn State should never lose bragging rights to those who aren't competitive rivals. Now that would be pathetic.

Ralphie, why are you always this dumb whenever we talk lol.

They played 7 times total and franklin is 3-4 against harbaugh. Changing that to 5 years is the definition of cherry picking. It’s not shocking you don’t get that.

Rutgers and Maryland combine have beaten PSU 5 times in their history. Thats 1 less win then PSU has this year. Again this isn’t 40 years in the past. That isn’t a rivalry. Again not shocking you don’t know this.

You continue to prove you are a know nothing Pennsylvania jackass. You exemplify what dumb is.

 

[ralphiewvu]

Good recruiter, shitty gameday coach.

too often his teams play down to inferior opponents, and we've all seen his record vs top 10 opponents.

One of these years he'll hit on a QB prospect and have an above average QB... I hope it's when we have a D this stingy again.

It’s only “sporadic” though according to the other Pennsylvania jackass in this thread.

 

[RoyMunson]

It’s only “sporadic” though according to the other Pennsylvania jackass in this thread.

There are games that the 2nd team should dominate that end up closer than they should be... or even losses like Illinois this year. Home game vs that opponent shouldn't have been a contest. Sure, it's college football, so that happens, but way too often for Franklin's teams.

 

[ralphiewvu]

There are games that the 2nd team should dominate that end up closer than they should be... or even losses like Illinois this year. Home game vs that opponent shouldn't have been a contest. Sure, it's college football, so that happens, but way too often for Franklin's teams.

Exactly, he is an awful game day coach. PSU has more talent then (at least) 10 teams on their schedule each regular season.

 

[navamind]

They played 7 times total and franklin is 3-4 against harbaugh. Changing that to 5 years is the definition of cherry picking. It’s not shocking you don’t get that.

Rutgers and Maryland combine have beaten PSU 5 times in their history. Thats 1 less win then PSU has this year. Again this isn’t 40 years in the past. That isn’t a rivalry. Again not shocking you don’t know this.

You continue to prove you are a know nothing Pennsylvania jackass. You exemplify what dumb is.

Penn State has a .000 winning percentage against Michigan in their last 1 meetings.