Poll HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 2 Bryant vs 7 Hayes

[iowajerms]

The winner of this round advances to the semifinals and faces the winner of Osborne/Switzer (Matchup #15). The loser will face Eddie Robinson in Elimination Round 2.

Poll is open for 4 days

Quarterfinals | Week 8

Matchup #15 (link) - #3 Tom Osborne vs #6 seed Barry Switzer
Matchup #16 (This thread) - #2 seed Bear Bryant vs #7 seed Woody Hayes

Spoiler: Pre-Tournament Threads

HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Entry Thread

I am thinking 16-seed double-elimination bracket with semifinal losers going for 3rd, but could change on how these early threads go. Which coaches do you think should be included in this bracket? Don't have to rank them, just list.

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Bracket Builder #1

The main purpose of this thread is to filter out those who will not be in the 16-man bracket. We will have two "Bracket Builder" threads and a "Seeding" thread. The seeding thread will be another thread like this thread, but will use the results to determine the seeds in the tournament. Vote...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Bracket Builder #2

Vote for the maximum 8 coaches you feel are the greatest on this list of 18 coaches. The top 12-16 (depending on results) will make the Seeding thread. Poll is open for 4 days. Will be able to vote and change vote until close. These 12 coaches from Bracket Builder #1 thread advances to the...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Seeding Thread

This thread will determine which 16 will make the tournament and what seed they receive. Coaches winning percentage will decide tie breakers. You have 4 days to vote for 8 coaches. Here is what the bracket looks like.

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - Bottom Feeders

There was a coach I forgot to add, so here is a poll that will give him a chance - I am going to make one more poll before the tournament begins. This poll will determine seeds 13-16. You will be able to vote for 4 of these. Poll is open for 2 days. And again, seeds will be determined by...

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Spoiler: Round 1

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - 1 Saban vs 16 Heisman

Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 1 Matchup #1 (this thread) - #1 seed Nick Saban vs #16 seed John Heisman Matchup #2 (link) - #8...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coach Tourney - 8 Robinson vs 9 Devaney

Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 1 Matchup #1 (link) - #1 seed Nick Saban vs #16 John Heisman Matchup #2 (this thread) - #8...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 5 Meyer vs 12 Bowden

Posting this a night early because I will be busy tomorrow. Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 2 Matchup #3 (this thread) - #1...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 4 Wilkinson vs 13 Rockne

Posting this a night early because I will be busy tomorrow. Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 2 Matchup #3 (link) - #5 seed...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 3 Osborne vs 14 Warner

Posting this a night early because I will be busy tomorrow. Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 3 Matchup #5 (This thread) - #3...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 6 Switzer vs 11 Swinney

Posting this a night early because I will be busy tomorrow. Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 3 Matchup #5 (link) - #3 seed Tom...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 7 Hayes vs 10 Paterno

Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 4 Matchup #7 (This thread) - #7 seed Woody Hayes vs #10 seed Joe Paterno Matchup #8 (link) - #2...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 2 Bryant vs 15 Spurrier

Who do you think has/had a better CFB coaching career? Poll is open for 4 days Winners of this week matchups meet in the Quarterfinals and Losers meet up in the Elimination Round 11 Round 1 | Week 4 Matchup #7 (link) - #7 seed Woody Hayes vs #10 seed Joe Paterno Matchup #8 (This thread) - #2...

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Spoiler: Elimination Round 1

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 8 Robinson vs 16 Heisman

Almost forgot about this. Been quite busy. Loser of this round is eliminated. Winner faces the loser of Bear Bryant/Woody Hayes (Matchup #16) Poll is open for 4 days. Elimination Round 1 | Week 5 Matchup #9 (This thread) - #8 seed Eddie Robinson vs #16 seed John Heisman Matchup #10 (link)...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 5 Meyer vs 13 Rockne

Almost forgot about this. Been quite busy. Loser of this round is eliminated. Winner faces the loser of Bear Tom Osborne/Barry Switzer (Matchup #15) Poll is open for 4 days. Elimination Round 1 | Week 5 Matchup #9 (link) - #8 seed Eddie Robinson vs #16 seed John Heisman Matchup #10 (This...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 11 Swinney vs 14 Warner

Loser of this round is eliminated. Winner faces the loser of Bobby Bowden/Bud Wilkinson (Matchup #14) Poll is open for 4 days. Elimination Round 1 | Week 5 Matchup #11 (This thread) - #11 seed Dabo Swinney vs #14 seed Pop Warner Matchup #12 (link) - #10 seed Joe Paterno vs #15 seed Steve...

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HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 10 Paterno vs 15 Spurrier

Loser of this round is eliminated. Winner faces the loser of Nick Saban/Bob Devaney (Matchup #13) Poll is open for 4 days. Elimination Round 1 | Week 5 Matchup #11 (link) - #11 seed Dabo Swinney vs #14 seed Pop Warner Matchup #12 (This thread) - #10 seed Joe Paterno vs #15 seed Steve...

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Spoiler: Semifinals

Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 1 Saban vs 9 Devaney

The winner of this round advances to the semifinals and faces the winner of Wilkinson/Bowden (Matchup #14). The loser will face Joe Paterno in Elimination Round 2. Poll is open for 4 days Quarterfinals | Week 7 Matchup #13 (This Thread) - #1 seed Nick Saban vs #9 seed Bob Devaney Matchup #14...

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Poll - HooplaNation's All-Time Greatest CFB Coaches Tourney - 4 Wilkinson vs 12 Bowden

The winner of this round advances to the semifinals and faces the winner of Saban/Devaney (Matchup #13). The loser will face Dabo Swinney in Elimination Round 2. Poll is open for 4 days Quarterfinals | Week 7 Matchup #13 (link) - #1 seed Nick Saban vs #9 seed Bob Devaney Matchup #14 (This...

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[Illustrious Potentate]

Both should be knocked for claiming illegitimate natties, but Bear had more legit claims.

 

[78Cyclones]

Both should be knocked for claiming illegitimate natties, but Bear had more legit claims.

All 6 of Bear's are AP and / or UPI: 1961 AP and UPI, 1964 AP and UPI, 1965 AP, 1973 UPI, 1978 AP and 1979 AP and UPI. You might not like how, when, where or why the AP / UPI vote was taken, but they are all as legitimate as any other AP and / or UPI National Championship. Every single school that has won either an AP and / or UPI National Championship claims it as they should.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

All 6 of Bear's are AP and / or UPI: 1961 AP and UPI, 1964 AP and UPI, 1965 AP, 1973 UPI, 1978 AP and 1979 AP and UPI. You might not like how, when, where or why the AP / UPI vote was taken, but they are all as legitimate as any other AP and / or UPI National Championship. Every single school that has won either an AP and / or UPI National Championship claims it as they should.

64 and I think 73 aren’t legit. 78 is iffy with USC having the H2H win too, but they have a case, so I’ll allow it.But he should be able to claim 1950 and 1966, so he’d still have the same amount of valid claims in my metric, just one less at Bama.

 

[78Cyclones]

64 and I think 73 aren’t legit. 78 is iffy with USC having the H2H win too, but they have a case, so I’ll allow it.But he should be able to claim 1950 and 1966, so he’d still have the same amount of valid claims in my metric, just one less at Bama.

Yes, they are legit AP and / or UPI National Championships by the rules of the selectors in the given years. You might not like the how, what, when, where or why of the AP and / or UPI in the given years through today's eyes, but the AP and the UPI voted, and they crowned their National Champions in the given years.

You either value the AP and / or the UPI as selectors, or you don't. I'm not arguing for Bryant or Alabama but that the AP and UPI were legitimate selectors of their day in the 6 years one or both named Alabama their National Champion in the Bryant Era.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Yes, they are legit AP and / or UPI National Championships by the rules of the selectors in the given years. You might not like the how, what, when, where or why of the AP and / or UPI in the given years through today's eyes, but the AP and the UPI voted, and they crowned their National Champions in the given years.

You either value the AP and / or the UPI as selectors, or you don't. I'm not arguing for Bryant or Alabama but that the AP and UPI were legitimate selectors of their day in the 6 years one or both named Alabama their National Champion in the Bryant Era.

I don’t value the AP or UPI. I value the resumes of the teams and making my own decisions. Everyone considers Arkansas to be the 64 champs.

 

[78Cyclones]

I don’t value the AP or UPI. I value the resumes of the teams and making my own decisions. Everyone considers Arkansas to be the 64 champs.

Fair enough that you do not value the AP or the UPI.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Fair enough that you do not value the AP or the UPI.

I mean, the fact it took a lot of egg on their faces to finally fix their criteria to count bowl games makes it easy to discredit them

 

[78Cyclones]

I mean, the fact it took a lot of egg on their faces to finally fix their criteria to count bowl games makes it easy to discredit them

I get and understand that. It has been much better since 1975 - when every AP and UPI (Coaches) National Champion has Bowled and Won.

1974 Oklahoma is the last team to win an AP or UPI (Coaches) National Championship without winning a Bowl Game. They won the AP without Bowling due to Probation. FWIW, I value AP and UPI (Coaches) National Champions from today more than from previous Eras with different rules too, but they are still the legit AP - UPI (Coaches) National Champion if named so by the rules of the day. Some schools (Notre Dame) didn't Bowl for decades. Some Conferences only allowed one team a year with a no repeat clause (B1G and Pac), and some loved Bowling (SEC).

Personally, I think more highly of 1945 Alabama (Undefeated, Untied, Uncrowned Rose Bowl Champion) and 1966 Alabama (Undefeated, Untied, Uncrowned Sugar Bowl Champion) over any team from that era that won an AP or UPI National Championship with a loss and / or not Bowling at all, but that does not make those two Alabama teams a National Champion or devalue the AP and / or UPI National Champions from those two years (1945 Army and 1966 Notre Dame). I also put 1964 Alabama and 1973 Alabama lower on the National Champion worthy totem pole, but they still won the vote by the rules of the day.

Army is the legitimate AP National Champion in 1945 (undefeated, Untied without Bowling), and Notre Dame is the legitimate AP and UPI National Champion in 1966 (with a tie and not Bowling). I don't have to like it, but they have the Trophies. They are legitimate.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I get and understand that. It has been much better since 1975 - when every AP and UPI (Coaches) National Champion has Bowled and Won.

1974 Oklahoma is the last team to win an AP or UPI (Coaches) National Championship without winning a Bowl Game. They won the AP without Bowling due to Probation. FWIW, I value AP and UPI (Coaches) National Champions from today more than from previous Eras with different rules too, but they are still the legit AP - UPI (Coaches) National Champion if named so by the rules of the day. Some schools (Notre Dame) didn't Bowl for decades. Some Conferences only allowed one team a year with a no repeat clause (B1G and Pac), and some loved Bowling (SEC).

Personally, I think more highly of 1945 Alabama (Undefeated, Untied, Uncrowned Rose Bowl Champion) and 1966 Alabama (Undefeated, Untied, Uncrowned Sugar Bowl Champion) over any team from that era that won an AP or UPI National Championship with a loss and / or not Bowling at all, but that does not make those two Alabama teams a National Champion or devalue the AP and / or UPI National Champions from those two years (1945 Army and 1966 Notre Dame). I also put 1964 Alabama and 1973 Alabama lower on the National Champion worthy totem pole, but they still won the vote by the rules of the day.

Army is the legitimate AP National Champion in 1945 (undefeated, Untied without Bowling), and Notre Dame is the legitimate AP and UPI National Champion in 1966 (with a tie and not Bowling). I don't have to like it, but they have the Trophies. They are legitimate.

They’re only legit if you let others think for you. You gotta look and the infor and decide for yourself. 1950 Oklahoma and 1964 Bama should be ashamed at themselves for claiming

 

[78Cyclones]

They’re only legit if you let others think for you. You gotta look and the infor and decide for yourself. 1950 Oklahoma and 1964 Bama should be ashamed at themselves for claiming

I get your point, but that is cherry picking. There is a difference between legit and being worthy. You are talking about being a worthy champion through today's eyes. Back in the day, Oklahoma in 1950 and Alabama in 1964 were considered worthy Champions, as there were only a few Bowl Games, many teams / conferences didn't participate due to it literally being a vacation game. There was a reason the National Champion in both the AP and UPI were voted on after the Regular Season.

FWIW, If OU hadn't Bowled in 1950 or Alabama hadn't Bowled in 1964, nobody would have batted an eye and this wouldn't even be an issue - unless you want to consider all of the National Champions from that era who didn't Bowl at all to be illegitimate too. If that is the case, the number will really become skewed. FWIW, Every single Alabama AP / UPI National Championship was in a year when the Tide Bowled (regardless of whether the final vote was before or after the Bowl).

Personally, I think that only Undefeated, Untied Bowl Teams are truly worthy (not contesting legitimacy). Using that logic, Alabama leads the way with 10 (1925, 1930, 1934, 1945, 1961, 1966, 1979, 1992, 2009 and 2020). Penn State is next (1968, 1969, 1973, 1986 and 1994). Then, there are the others. Let the Trophies fall where they may!

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

I get your point, but that is cherry picking. There is a difference between legit and being worthy. You are talking about being a worthy champion through today's eyes. Back in the day, Oklahoma in 1950 and Alabama in 1964 were considered worthy Champions, as there were only a few Bowl Games, many teams / conferences didn't participate due to it literally being a vacation game. There was a reason the National Champion in both the AP and UPI were voted on after the Regular Season.

FWIW, If OU hadn't Bowled in 1950 or Alabama hadn't Bowled in 1964, nobody would have batted an eye and this wouldn't even be an issue - unless you want to consider all of the National Champions from that era who didn't Bowl at all to be illegitimate too. If that is the case, the number will really become skewed. FWIW, Every single Alabama AP / UPI National Championship was in a year when the Tide Bowled (regardless of whether the final vote was before or after the Bowl).

Personally, I think that only Undefeated, Untied Bowl Teams are worthy. Using that logic, Alabama leads the way with 10 (1925, 1930, 1934, 1945, 1961, 1966, 1979, 1992, 2009 and 2020). Penn State is next (1968, 1969, 1973, 1986 and 1994). Then, there are the others. Let the Trophies fall where thy may!

I have zero issues with any undefeated, untied team claiming a natty(other than 1997 Michigan because their conference agreed to a bowl contract that would prevent many 1-2 bowl matchups, and they don't get a pass for that). Back in the day when there wasn't a system in place for a NCG, all we can really argue about with multiple undefeated teams in the same year is resume, but that really doesn't tell us which team was better(head to head doesn't always either, but it's an important part of a resume). Even if there had been no bowls, Arkansas would have had a legit claim, but after bowls, Bama should have just handed over the trophy, because everyone knows Arkansas is the 1964 champs.

 

[78Cyclones]

I have zero issues with any undefeated, untied team claiming a natty(other than 1997 Michigan because their conference agreed to a bowl contract that would prevent many 1-2 bowl matchups, and they don't get a pass for that). Back in the day when there wasn't a system in place for a NCG, all we can really argue about with multiple undefeated teams in the same year is resume, but that really doesn't tell us which team was better(head to head doesn't always either, but it's an important part of a resume). Even if there had been no bowls, Arkansas would have had a legit claim, but after bowls, Bama should have just handed over the trophy, because everyone knows Arkansas is the 1964 champs.

Arkansas was the 1964 FWAA National Champion.
Alabama was the 1964 AP and UPI National Champion.

Arkansas was more worthy if you count the Bowl Games (which the AP and UPI (Coaches) did not that season). Every single school that has won an AP and / or UPI (Coaches) National Championship counts it even if they didn't Bowl and / or Bowled and loss. This list includes Oklahoma, Tennessee, Maryland Auburn, Minnesota, Notre Dame, Michigan State, Notre Dame and Texas among others.

Times change. A team will not win an AP and / or UPI (Coaches) National Championship in this Era without Bowling or losing their Bowl. However, teams that won an AP and / or UPI (Coaches) National Championship in a year when the didn't Bowl or Bowled and lost does not vacate that National Championship or make it illegitimate.

Once again being worthy and being legitimate are two different things.

Round and Round we go.

 

[Illustrious Potentate]

Arkansas was the 1964 FWAA National Champion.
Alabama was the 1964 AP and UPI National Champion.

Arkansas was more worthy if you count the Bowl Games (which the AP and UPI (Coaches) did not that season). Every single school that has won an AP and / or UPI (Coaches) National Championship counts it even if they didn't Bowl and / or Bowled and loss. This list includes Oklahoma, Tennessee, Maryland Auburn, Minnesota, Notre Dame, Michigan State, Notre Dame and Texas among others.

Times change. A team will not win an AP and / or UPI (Coaches) National Championship in this Era without Bowling or losing their Bowl. However, teams that won an AP and / or UPI (Coaches) National Championship in a year when the didn't Bowl or Bowled and loss does not vacate that National Championship or make it illegitimate.

Once again being worthy and being legitimate are two different things.

Round and Round we go.

That's fair with worth vs legitimate. I'll start using worthy from now on.

 

[fishinabarrel]

Went homer pick bc I knew it wouldn't matter