I Can Admit When I Am Wrong!

[Nosferatu]

Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback of all time!

He may not have the strongest arm.

He may not have the quickest delivery.

He may not be the most mobile.

He may not throw the best deep ball.

But nobody has or will ever come close to the things he's done.

230 - 69 I used to think he was a product of Belichick, but I was wrong.

He's been a starter for 19 seasons and has never had a losing record.

7 Super Bowls? What the fuck, the Vikings have arguable the most great players of all time and we can't get one?

 

[femurov]

You lose a bet?

 

[Nosferatu]

You lose a bet?

Nope, I still don't like him but at some point what he's done has to matter.

 

[Pack 500]

Nope, I still don't like him but at some point what he's done has to matter.

 

[Nosferatu]

I guess that explains how he's won at least 11 regular season games 16 times.

 

[UK Cowboy]

He is without question the greatest ever

 

[Pack 500]

I guess that explains how he's won at least 11 regular season games 16 times.

Yes he wins all the games be himself. Snaps it to himself, throws it, catches it, plays defense. Wins aren’t a QB stat. And he’s the video mostly does explain lol

 

[Nosferatu]

Yes he wins all the games be himself. Snaps it to himself, throws it, catches it, plays defense. Wins aren’t a QB stat. And he’s the video mostly does explain lol

I understand the hatred but it's simply foolish at this point, nobody has done or will ever do the things he's done. Jameis Winston threw for 5,000 yards and 30 TD's last year and they didn't make the playoffs. I guess everyone tried harder when Brady got there. Name me another player who has played 19 years and never had a losing record, at some point it's gotta be him not just the team is always good.

Aside from Moss for a couple years and Gronk he has had no first ballot guys around him. Peyton Manning at age 39 looked like my sister throwing the ball yet Brady is winning Super Bowls at 43.

 

[Pack 500]

I understand the hatred but it's simply foolish at this point, nobody has done or will ever do the things he's done. Jameis Winston threw for 5,000 yards and 30 TD's last year and they didn't make the playoffs. I guess everyone tried harder when Brady got there. Name me another player who has played 19 years and never had a losing record, at some point it's gotta be him not just the team is always good.

Aside from Moss for a couple years and Gronk he has had no first ballot guys around him. Peyton Manning at age 39 looked like my sister throwing the ball yet Brady is winning Super Bowls at 43.

Jameis Winston threw 30 picks my man lol. Can’t just not mention that. They added an all pro RT in the draft, AB, Gronk, Fournette, and a stud safety in the draft. They beat a team with 4 backups on the OL and the Bucs had over 30 QB pressures in the game! Brady wasn’t touched. Watch the video and tell me a single impressive throw he made in that game. He threw 3 picks against GB and won. So if you didn’t think he was the GOAT before there was absolutely nothing he did this year that should’ve changed your mind.

 

[Shanemansj13]

It’s just sad it took 7 SB’s and two different teams for you to finally admit it!!!

 

[Shanemansj13]

Jameis Winston threw 30 picks my man lol. Can’t just not mention that. They added an all pro RT in the draft, AB, Gronk, Fournette, and a stud safety in the draft. They beat a team with 4 backups on the OL and the Bucs had over 30 QB pressures in the game! Brady wasn’t touched. Watch the video and tell me a single impressive throw he made in that game. He threw 3 picks against GB and won. So if you didn’t think he was the GOAT before there was absolutely nothing he did this year that should’ve changed your mind.

He did have all the weapons in the world, OL played amazing and the defense was playing at a high level once the playoffs rolled around but he is also freaking 43 years old. 43!

 

[Nosferatu]

Jameis Winston threw 30 picks my man lol. Can’t just not mention that. They added an all pro RT in the draft, AB, Gronk, Fournette, and a stud safety in the draft. They beat a team with 4 backups on the OL and the Bucs had over 30 QB pressures in the game! Brady wasn’t touched. Watch the video and tell me a single impressive throw he made in that game. He threw 3 picks against GB and won. So if you didn’t think he was the GOAT before there was absolutely nothing he did this year that should’ve changed your mind.

Winston threw 30 picks because he's not Brady!

Yep, they added all those players, they also added Tom Brady.

You can only play who ya play.

The point you seem to be missing is, a lot of other teams have hit on draft picks and brought in players and they didn't sniff the Super Bowl. I mean it's literally come down to unless Brady wins a Super Bowl with the 1976 Buccaneers he's only winning because of those around him. Well he's doing that more than anyone else ever did as well.

 

[THEE Robot Devil]

Jameis Winston threw 30 picks my man lol. Can’t just not mention that. They added an all pro RT in the draft, AB, Gronk, Fournette, and a stud safety in the draft. They beat a team with 4 backups on the OL and the Bucs had over 30 QB pressures in the game! Brady wasn’t touched. Watch the video and tell me a single impressive throw he made in that game. He threw 3 picks against GB and won. So if you didn’t think he was the GOAT before there was absolutely nothing he did this year that should’ve changed your mind.

I agree and wins are most definitely not a QB stat. I did not watch the Super Bowl modern day NFL is just not the same. When you stack Brady up with the all time greats. Brady has clearly struggled when pressured by defenses.Lost two Super Bowls to Eli and the Giants and the Eagles. He should have lost 2 more Falcons choked and the Seahawks win if not for that terrible play call throwing over the middle on the goal line with one of the best goal line backs in the game at the time.

When you stack Brady up against the greats you have to compensate for era imo. There was a significant difference in Defenses back then. QB’s back then we’re dealing with guys like LT, Reggie White, DT, Lott, Deion, Blount etc....I cant see Brady having success against those defenses. And that’s not getting into rule changes that favor QB’s and offenses. I hated Montana “Notre Dame” But guys like Montana, Marino etc excelled in a much more difficult era of the NFL gotta give them their dues when it comes to “Goat”.They would tear the league up in today’s era.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I agree and wins are most definitely not a QB stat. I did not watch the Super Bowl modern day NFL is just not the same. When you stack Brady up with the all time greats. Brady has clearly struggled when pressured by defenses.Lost two Super Bowls to Eli and the Giants and the Eagles. He should have lost 2 more Falcons choked and the Seahawks win if not for that terrible play call throwing over the middle on the goal line with one of the best goal line backs in the game at the time.

When you stack Brady up against the greats you have to compensate for era imo. There was a significant difference in Defenses back then. QB’s back then we’re dealing with guys like LT, Reggie White, DT, Lott, Deion, Blount etc....I cant see Brady having success against those defenses. And that’s not getting into rule changes that favor QB’s and offenses. I hated Montana “Notre Dame” But guys like Montana, Marino etc excelled in a much more difficult era of the NFL gotta give them their dues when it comes to “Goat”.They would tear the league up in today’s era.

problem is you can say “what if” to just about any player in any era. You cannot take points away from Brady for playing in a certain era, plus he started in 2000 that was still a tough era to play in and wasn’t what it was today. Also, there are great players in any era. Just bc he didn’t play vs pass rushers like White and LT is not a negative, he played against other all-time greats like Ware, Von and Watt, Woodson, Revis, Reed, Lewis, etc.
Marino could have very well excelled in this era but he still couldn’t win the big game when it matters, rings aren’t everything but it comes to a point when comparing players (especially GOAT) it matters, plain and simple. Brady has played plenty of great defenses.
I will say Peyton always went to toe to toe with Brady especially in the playoffs and it’s why he is also in the top 3. Marino was a guy that threw for a ton of yards and TD’s...he was a stat stuffer. No way he is even considered in the GOAT conversation. Montana is different story. It is difficult when comparing era’s but when you are comparing players from eras we can only go by the competition they played. Saying Tommy wasn’t tough enough to play in a different era is just all opinion, but there is nothing that says he couldn’t play in a different era. He’s durable, he is freaking 43 still taking hits. He has amazing pocket presence and quick feet like Peyton and Montana. Just like in any sports I believe most greats could play in any era so that’s why I believe it is unfair to take away points bc they didn’t play in another era when it has no factor on greatness. Brady has definitely proved he is the GOAT, for awhile I was trying to use the same argument but at some point you just have to sit back and enjoy it, even if you hate the guy.

 

[Nosferatu]

Marino was a guy that threw for a ton of yards and TD’s...he was a stat stuffer. No way he is even considered in the GOAT conversation

This is obvious nonsense. Marino is the most skilled quarterback who has ever played the game, he's just not the winningest.

People say Jerry Rice is the GOAT and it's hard to argue because of what he accomplished, the records, the longevity.

People say Tom Brady is the GOAT and it's hard to argue because of what he accomplished, the records, the longevity.

Neither one of these guys is actually the best there ever was at their position. Dan Marino and Randy Moss are. Winning and skill are two different things.

The reason I started this is to just give some respect to Brady, nobody will ever do this again and he deserves a lot of credit no matter how much we dislike him.

 

[THEE Robot Devil]

problem is you can say “what if” to just about any player in any era. You cannot take points away from Brady for playing in a certain era, plus he started in 2000 that was still a tough era to play in and wasn’t what it was today. Also, there are great players in any era. Just bc he didn’t play vs pass rushers like White and LT is not a negative, he played against other all-time greats like Ware, Von and Watt, Woodson, Revis, Reed, Lewis, etc.
Marino could have very well excelled in this era but he still couldn’t win the big game when it matters, rings aren’t everything but it comes to a point when comparing players (especially GOAT) it matters, plain and simple. Brady has played plenty of great defenses.
I will say Peyton always went to toe to toe with Brady especially in the playoffs and it’s why he is also in the top 3. Marino was a guy that threw for a ton of yards and TD’s...he was a stat stuffer. No way he is even considered in the GOAT conversation. Montana is different story. It is difficult when comparing era’s but when you are comparing players from eras we can only go by the competition they played. Saying Tommy wasn’t tough enough to play in a different era is just all opinion, but there is nothing that says he couldn’t play in a different era. He’s durable, he is freaking 43 still taking hits. He has amazing pocket presence and quick feet like Peyton and Montana. Just like in any sports I believe most greats could play in any era so that’s why I believe it is unfair to take away points bc they didn’t play in another era when it has no factor on greatness. Brady has definitely proved he is the GOAT, for awhile I was trying to use the same argument but at some point you just have to sit back and enjoy it, even if you hate the guy.

This is the problem with the “Goat” debates. Without a direct comparison they are all “what if” discussions in the end. Era does play a factor in the discussion on many levels. There have been some great defensive players in the early 2000’s but defenses back in the earlier eras were built different. This is very noticeable both when watching the games from the different eras and in these drafts. You would also have to compensate rule changes. Under the modern day rules guys like White, LT, Lott, Atwater etc would be flagged consistently. Today’s game is catered toward offenses. You can see this in the boosted offensive stats.Most of the defensive players we all draft would be useless in today’s game. Marino and Montana would be at the top of my list they earned that while playing in a far more difficult era. Marino has the edge skill wise imo. I don’t care for NFL anymore it’s starting to resemble WWE or flag football more than NFL. But I could see a guy like Mahomes breaking Brady’s modern day mark. 500 is right wins are not a QB stat. Would you consider Bill Russell the greatest player in NBA history?

 

[Nosferatu]

Would you consider Bill Russell the greatest player in NBA history?

This doesn't work. Bill Russell didn't touch the ball every time down court. Wins can be a QB stat, you more likely to win with Tom Brady or Tommy Kramer all things being equal? Wins are not the deciding factor of course but they do help paint a picture. It's unlikely a team would continue to pay a guy in his 40's millions of dollars if they didn't think he could improve their chances of winning.

But I agree, I have watched 3 games in the last 3 years.

Sept 9th 2018 Vikings vs 49ers
Jan 11th 2020 Vikings vs 49ers
Feb 2nd 2020 Chiefs vs 49ers

 

[THEE Robot Devil]

This doesn't work. Bill Russell didn't touch the ball every time down court. Wins can be a QB stat, you more likely to win with Tom Brady or Tommy Kramer all things being equal? Wins are not the deciding factor of course but they do help paint a picture. It's unlikely a team would continue to pay a guy in his 40's millions of dollars if they didn't think he could improve their chances of winning.

But I agree, I have watched 3 games in the last 3 years.

Sept 9th 2018 Vikings vs 49ers
Jan 11th 2020 Vikings vs 49ers
Feb 2nd 2020 Chiefs vs 49ers

One could also say Brady did not play offense and defense. They are all team sports. Henri Richard won 11 championships . I don’t think Russell was the greatest center in NBA history and as much as I liked him I don’t think Richard was the greatest centre in NHL history. I do agree modern day NFL is far too unbearable to watch tho. I’ll read to see how some of my favorite college players are doing Rojo got his ring but that’s about it. Streaming the older NFL games is so much better. Watched the Raiders Redskins Super Bowl not long ago.

 

[Nosferatu]

One could also say Brady did not play offense and defense. They are all team sports.

Not sure your point here, there's a reason QB is considered the most important player on the team and probably the most important position in team sports.

 

[THEE Robot Devil]

Not sure your point here, there's a reason QB is considered the most important player on the team and probably the most important position in team sports.

That’s debatable we have both seen some all time greats never win a championship. And we’ve seen some mediocre QB’s win championships. QB. I would say QB gets the most attention. Not so much the most important position.