I Can Admit When I Am Wrong!

[Nosferatu]

That’s debatable we have both seen some all time greats never win a championship. And we’ve seen some mediocre QB’s win championships. QB. I would say QB gets the most attention. Not so much the most important position.

It's not debatable. Of course it's the most important position. The fact some greats don't win and some less than greats have does nothing to change the fact it is without question the most important position on the team, Did you take a shovel to the head recently?

This should be fun, what position is more important?

 

[THEE Robot Devil]

It's not debatable. Of course it's the most important position. The fact some greats don't win and some less than greats have does nothing to change the fact it is without question the most important position on the team, Did you take a shovel to the head recently?

This should be fun, what position is more important?

So you would rank John Elway over Terell Davis?Russell may not have touched the ball all the way down court. But Brady does not touch the ball every play he does not play defense. Football is a team sport. The Center touches the ball as much as Brady on offense. Brady has had a successful career in this era but he is not the greatest all time, I can’t say a QB is the most important position in any sport. There’s have been several game managers carried by defense, RB etc over the years. Too many examples when a QB wasn’t even the most important player in their team

 

[Shanemansj13]

This is obvious nonsense. Marino is the most skilled quarterback who has ever played the game, he's just not the winningest.

People say Jerry Rice is the GOAT and it's hard to argue because of what he accomplished, the records, the longevity.

People say Tom Brady is the GOAT and it's hard to argue because of what he accomplished, the records, the longevity.

Neither one of these guys is actually the best there ever was at their position. Dan Marino and Randy Moss are. Winning and skill are two different things.

The reason I started this is to just give some respect to Brady, nobody will ever do this again and he deserves a lot of credit no matter how much we dislike him.

LOL again, that is your opinion and very few will agree about you. Talent only gets you so far, talent doesn't make you the best at something...Rice and Brady are GOAT's for a reason bc they played the position better than anyone in the history of the game. Brady has everything Marino has yet he's done it better...arm talent? People seem to think you need a rocket arm, Brady didn't have any problem throwing 50 yards bombs with pinpoint accuracy...Brady's accuracy is much better than Marino's. Remember for most of Brady's career he didn't have much at the WR position or even RB position, you could actually argue Marino had more at the WR position. The point is skill only gets you so far it's why Rodgers is not named GOAT right now and that is for good reason as great as he has been in this league. Marino is like Rodgers without the mobility, an all-time great with great skill but will never be considered in the conversation for GOAT and yes that is the same conversation as the best at the position. You can't have it one way or the other.

 

[Shanemansj13]

So you would rank John Elway over Terell Davis?Russell may not have touched the ball all the way down court. But Brady does not touch the ball every play he does not play defense. Football is a team sport. The Center touches the ball as much as Brady on offense. Brady has had a successful career in this era but he is not the greatest all time, I can’t say a QB is the most important position in any sport. There’s have been several game managers carried by defense, RB etc over the years. Too many examples when a QB wasn’t even the most important player in their team

A QB is like a PG in basketball, without him you kind of at a standstill, he moves the ball around EXCEPT a QB is even more important. It's definitely the most important position without a doubt, it doesn't mean other positions aren't still greatly important bc football is a team sport. QB's usually go #1 in the NFL draft for a reason, without a good or even great one it's hard to win in this league...it's possible to win with an average one just very slim odds. So I wouldn't go as far as saying QB isn't the most important position bc it definitely is but to win you still need a team effort.

 

[Tony Danza’s dancers]

my view about Tom brady is complicated... I don't think he is the best QB of all time... just because I don't think he himself could carry a team... not like other great QBs... as he was never a great passer...

He really is all intangibles... He is that player that changes a locker room to a winning mentality... And I think he is the Best WINNER of all time, which is proven by how much he has won... But I think that he makes his teammates believe more than anyone else... and that is really more important than being an actual good QB...


I am convinced that the TB defense would not have been as good as it was in the playoffs if anyone else was QB... and isn't that more important than actual QB play??

 

[Shanemansj13]

my view about Tom brady is complicated... I don't think he is the best QB of all time... just because I don't think he himself could carry a team... not like other great QBs... as he was never a great passer...

He really is all intangibles... He is that player that changes a locker room to a winning mentality... And I think he is the Best WINNER of all time, which is proven by how much he has won... But I think that he makes his teammates believe more than anyone else... and that is really more important than being an actual good QB...


I am convinced that the TB defense would not have been as good as it was in the playoffs if anyone else was QB... and isn't that more important than actual QB play??

But we've seen it time and time again, he has carried many teams. Could I think Peyton or other QB's could do the same? yes and we've seen it happen but it comes to a point where if a player keeps on winning big games no matter the odds, circumstances, even the team they are on, etc. they just thrive under pressure and that is part of the QB position it seems like people don't even consider. He is the most clutch QB in the NFL history, he thrives in adversity and his back against the wall most of the time.

I do think that defense was playing at a high level but why did it take Brady to push them over the hump? Why could Jameis win with that defense, I realize it wasn't the exact same defense but the had a lot of the same personnel. I guess some of the points you made. He is the best locker room guy and he has confidence in himself and the team but it takes a lot more than that when you step on the field. It just seemed like he always made the play when they needed it most...not this year, I mean over his career.

 

[Tony Danza’s dancers]

But we've seen it time and time again, he has carried many teams. Could I think Peyton or other QB's could do the same? yes and we've seen it happen but it comes to a point where if a player keeps on winning big games no matter the odds, circumstances, even the team they are on, etc. they just thrive under pressure and that is part of the QB position it seems like people don't even consider. He is the most clutch QB in the NFL history, he thrives in adversity and his back against the wall most of the time.

I do think that defense was playing at a high level but why did it take Brady to push them over the hump? Why could Jameis win with that defense, I realize it wasn't the exact same defense but the had a lot of the same personnel.

did you read my post?? I don't think you did...

 

[Shanemansj13]

did you read my post?? I don't think you did...

You didn't quote my entire post....

 

[Nosferatu]

LOL again, that is your opinion and very few will agree about you. Talent only gets you so far, talent doesn't make you the best at something...Rice and Brady are GOAT's for a reason bc they played the position better than anyone in the history of the game. Brady has everything Marino has yet he's done it better...arm talent? People seem to think you need a rocket arm, Brady didn't have any problem throwing 50 yards bombs with pinpoint accuracy...Brady's accuracy is much better than Marino's. Remember for most of Brady's career he didn't have much at the WR position or even RB position, you could actually argue Marino had more at the WR position. The point is skill only gets you so far it's why Rodgers is not named GOAT right now and that is for good reason as great as he has been in this league. Marino is like Rodgers without the mobility, an all-time great with great skill but will never be considered in the conversation for GOAT and yes that is the same conversation as the best at the position. You can't have it one way or the other.

Most won't agree... lolzzz

People like shiny things!
80M voted for Biden!
In today's America people have the attention span of a gnat!
People are stupid!
Marino had more at receiver, lolzzzz come on man! Why do you think Edelman, Amandola and Welker were so successful with Brady?
Becuase they were great after the catch, Brady could throw them 6 yard passes and they would turn it into 17 yards.

I really do respect your opinion but as you know it's a different game, the NFL changed it's rules for Brady!

I watched both play, and I am a Vikings fan, I have no reason to favor Marino over Brady. Brady is better than Elway however.

 

[Nosferatu]

But we've seen it time and time again, he has carried many teams. Could I think Peyton or other QB's could do the same? yes and we've seen it happen but it comes to a point where if a player keeps on winning big games no matter the odds, circumstances, even the team they are on, etc. they just thrive under pressure and that is part of the QB position it seems like people don't even consider. He is the most clutch QB in the NFL history, he thrives in adversity and his back against the wall most of the time.

I do think that defense was playing at a high level but why did it take Brady to push them over the hump? Why could Jameis win with that defense, I realize it wasn't the exact same defense but the had a lot of the same personnel. I guess some of the points you made. He is the best locker room guy and he has confidence in himself and the team but it takes a lot more than that when you step on the field. It just seemed like he always made the play when they needed it most...not this year, I mean over his career.

How many big games has he actually won? For more than a decade the AFC east was trash, they get home field, play some shit wildcard team in the divisional round then have one tough game in the AFC Championship. His defense, Vinatieri and Belichick were every bit as responsible for some of the rings.

 

[Tony Danza’s dancers]

You didn't quote my entire post....

that's simply because you edited after reading my post... But you still ignored my point...

I think it comes down to this...

If i was building a team around my offense, and all QBs were at their peak...

Tom Brady would not be my top choice... He probably wouldnt even be my top 5 choice...


But if i was building a team around a single player, Brady Would be my number one pick... Because he simply makes Everyone around him, not just the players he directly impacts, that much better...

Whether its because of his perfectionalism, and how he demands low turnover game, to keep the defense fresh... or whatever...

 

[Shanemansj13]

Most won't agree... lolzzz

People like shiny things!
80M voted for Biden!
In today's America people have the attention span of a gnat!
People are stupid!
Marino had more at receiver, lolzzzz come on man! Why do you think Edelman, Amandola and Welker were so successful with Brady?
Becuase they were great after the catch, Brady could throw them 6 yard passes and they would turn it into 17 yards.

I really do respect your opinion but as you know it's a different game, the NFL changed it's rules for Brady!

I watched both play, and I am a Vikings fan, I have no reason to favor Marino over Brady. Brady is better than Elway.

The funny thing is you are the one propping up the "shiny thing" right now.

You are propping up the guy that has a huge arm, flashy plays, BIG stats, every now and then he make that throw NOBODY can make, not even Brady...I will take the smarter QB that makes the right play way more often, the guy with pinpoint accuracy, the better decision-maker that made less mistakes, but this non-flashy guy will still end up having the less stat line he just won't make as many mistakes and try to force throws like Marino did time and time again. Sorry man, you are the one making an argument for the shiny object. I will take the consistent guy that makes the right play but he still has all the intangibles you need in a QB.

The fact you say names like Edelman, Amendola and Welker in your case is funny bc you were nobodies before or after LOL. Why did a 6 yard pass become a 17 yard play bc he made the RIGHT football play. Marino would have tried to force a throw downfield. He hurt his team too much and it did cost him a lot of big games. Still a great, just not to level of others.

But this really isn't a debate bc tbh Marino shouldn't even be mentioned, he had all the intangibles but he wasn't ever in the conversation bc he wasn't the best decision maker, he wasn't the most accurate and he held onto the ball too long being too greedy instead of making the smarter football play. That's who he was. I also respect your opinion but you just aren't right here.

 

[Shanemansj13]

How many big games has he actually won? For more than a decade the AFC east was trash, they get home field, play some shit wildcard team in the divisional round then have one tough game in the AFC Championship. His defense, Vinatieri and Belichick were every bit as responsible for some of the rings.

So putting his team in position to win doesn't give him any credit? LOL a kicker is part of the game, there have been plenty of kickers who won games, it's part of football. He just won in one year without Belichick...I think we can put that to rest. I'm not even debating it isn't close. Peyton was also one of the best QB's of all-time and he played Tommy great in the playoffs so it's not like he can't be outdueled. Marino could have dueled him, Favre, a ton of great QB's...but I'm just saying Marino has ZERO case for the best at the position. There have been others that played it better and a lot of it had to do with his decision-making. Favre is in that same conversation.

 

[THEE Robot Devil]

A QB is like a PG in basketball, without him you kind of at a standstill, he moves the ball around EXCEPT a QB is even more important. It's definitely the most important position without a doubt, it doesn't mean other positions aren't still greatly important bc football is a team sport. QB's usually go #1 in the NFL draft for a reason, without a good or even great one it's hard to win in this league...it's possible to win with an average one just very slim odds. So I wouldn't go as far as saying QB isn't the most important position bc it definitely is but to win you still need a team effort.

So you would draft Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson over Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp, Ray Lewis l, Ed Reed?Would you draft Foles, Eli or Simms over LT, ODB, etc?Matt Ryan over Julio? QB’s get the hype and attention but no they are not the most important position in sports. Like I said there are quite a few examples through history QB’s were not even the most important players on their teams.....

This is not the same NFL defenses are not remotely close to the same. With the introduction of college football systems like the spread etc and the personnel that comes with those offense. Ie: hybrid tight ends like Gronk who carried Brady along with WR’s like Welker, Amondia, Edelman who benefit highly from these systems. And the lack of adaptation from defenses who primarily play soft zones now. As well as the penalties put in place to protect QB’s like Brady. There are big reasons for the overly inflated stats in today’s game.I can’t say Brady is the “goat” he is a very successful QB for this era. Moss generally goes extremely high in our drafts and Brady lost to a mediocre QB playing a man/zone.....

This is where eras most definitely enter the discussion. No Marino did not have the weapons. Nor did he have the benefits of running a spread outside maybe Buffalo and the K gun. The majority of teams back then used a FB. Or the luxury of penalties in place that allow a QB to sit back and lean on a penalty flag.... Defenses were just plain more aggressive and played at a much higher level when QB’s like Marino were playing. Take a QB with Marino’s skill set in today’s game and this is not even debatable.

I’ve got Marino over Brady not sure Brady makes my top 5 all time

 

[UK Cowboy]

Most talented QB I ever saw was Marino followed closely by ARod. Strongest arm probably Elway. Most clutch Montana then Staubach. Smartest Peyton. Most Accurate Marino then Aikman. Toughest was Favre.
Quickest release Marino and A Rod.
But the best all around... without a doubt Brady. All he cares about is winning. One of the things about Aikman that is underrated is the fact that he never bitched about handing off to Emmitt 30 times a game. Brady is like that. If he needs to hand it off fine, throw it 50 times fine, and while he was not the best at any on the things I listed above, he was the best leader without a doubt, and he was top 5-6 in every category except arm strength IMO

 

[citysushi]

I feel like at the rate this argument is going, Chuck Bednarik should be considered the GOAT.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Most talented QB I ever saw was Marino followed closely by ARod. Strongest arm probably Elway. Most clutch Montana then Staubach. Smartest Peyton. Most Accurate Marino then Aikman. Toughest was Favre.
Quickest release Marino and A Rod.
But the best all around... without a doubt Brady. All he cares about is winning. One of the things about Aikman that is underrated is the fact that he never bitched about handing off to Emmitt 30 times a game. Brady is like that. If he needs to hand it off fine, throw it 50 times fine, and while he was not the best at any on the things I listed above, he was the best leader without a doubt, and he was top 5-6 in every category except arm strength IMO

Not anymore, that medal goes to Baker lol.

According to Pro Football Focus, Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield made NFL history throwing an incomplete Hail Mary pass that was over 70 yards on Monday night against the Baltimore Ravens, which was the longest pass ever recorded in game.

But definitely Favre is right up there too. I remember him breaking his WR's fingers on multiple occassions.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Not anymore, that medal goes to Baker lol.

According to Pro Football Focus, Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield made NFL history throwing an incomplete Hail Mary pass that was over 70 yards on Monday night against the Baltimore Ravens, which was the longest pass ever recorded in game.

But definitely Favre is right up there too. I remember him breaking his WR's fingers on multiple occassions.

If it were a Hail Mary Elway would have no trouble throwing it 70 lol. I've seen HS QB's throw it 60 in the air
Baker...not even the strongest in the game today. Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen and Carson Wentz could all just let it go farther IMO

 

[citysushi]

If it were a Hail Mary Elway would have no trouble throwing it 70 lol. I've seen HS QB's throw it 60 in the air
Baker...not even the strongest in the game today. Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen and Carson Wentz could all just let it go farther IMO

 

[Shanemansj13]

If it were a Hail Mary Elway would have no trouble throwing it 70 lol. I've seen HS QB's throw it 60 in the air
Baker...not even the strongest in the game today. Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen and Carson Wentz could all just let it go farther IMO

I've seen Jarvis Landry throw it 60 yards lol

Baker can probably throw it farther than that also, along with the guys you named.