New York and College Football

Volbound1700

Volbound1700

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I will say one of the most baffling ideas about College Football to me is the fact that the third most populous state (and actually the most populous through most of CFB history) with one of the largest cities in the globe does NOT have a major College Football Program.

Sure they got Syracuse but that program has been irrelevant in Football the last 20 years and is a private school.

I am shocked there isn't a University of New York that is the size of a Michigan or Ohio State with a 100k stadium and millions of fans throughout that state that plays at an elite level.

I imagine this is why College Football is not a major sport in the New York/New England area. You have Boston College, UConn (if you want to even count them), and Syracuse as the major programs but all three have been pretty irrelevant and don't really draw large crowds.

I guess this is what has always baffled me about the sport. Seems like a major missed opportunity. I guess you really didn't have a school in the area that could historically fit the requirement to become a major Power 5 program.
 
I think NYC and the northeastern seaboard has always been more about Pro sports than college.

Also most schools in and around NYC are smaller schools.
 
rsw626 said:
I think NYC and the northeastern seaboard has always been more about Pro sports than college.

Also most schools in and around NYC are smaller schools.
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There are so many pro sports teams in the NYC metro area. 2 NFL teams, 2 NBA teams, 2 MLB teams, 3 NHL teams and 2 MLS teams. College sports just aren't on the radar in NYC.
 
rsw626 said:
I think NYC and the northeastern seaboard has always been more about Pro sports than college.

Also most schools in and around NYC are smaller schools.
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True. I also think that is related to the lack of a college program as well.

Part of the reason College Football is so big and dwarfs the NFL in the South is that many of the Southern States did not have Pro programs to recently and the traditions grew up around college.

New York hasn't had that big-time state school that you see in the other states such as Texas with UT Austin and Texas A&M, Florida with the Gators and Seminoles, California with UCLA, USC, and even Cal, and Pennsylvania with Penn State.

It is just odd that as a major state in the country, they don't have that major University with a big-time football stadium.
 
Volbound1700 said:
True. I also think that is related to the lack of a college program as well.

Part of the reason College Football is so big and dwarfs the NFL in the South is that many of the Southern States did not have Pro programs to recently and the traditions grew up around college.

New York hasn't had that big-time state school that you see in the other states such as Texas with UT Austin and Texas A&M, Florida with the Gators and Seminoles, California with UCLA, USC, and even Cal, and Pennsylvania with Penn State.

It is just odd that as a major state in the country, they don't have that major University with a big-time football stadium.
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That was the Big Ten's vision when they added Rutgers. It's technically not in NY but it's the closest program to NYC that exists. Obviously Rutgers doesn't have the tradition so it's definitely a work in progress. It will be interesting to see if that ever pans out for Rutgers and the Big Ten.
 
duckboy33 said:
That was the Big Ten's vision when they added Rutgers. It's technically not in NY but it's the closest program to NYC that exists. Obviously Rutgers doesn't have the tradition so it's definitely a work in progress. It will be interesting to see if that ever pans out for Rutgers and the Big Ten.
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Yeah, that isn't necessarily the best way to look at it (especially in short term). The main reason CFB took off in many of the other high population states (many of them also having pro teams) is that you had solid CFB programs dating back to 1920s and before. Traditions have emerged from that period that have followed us to today.

There just wasn't the major school in New York in the 1920s/1930s that was able to develop the tradition as the go-to sports program like you see with other areas.

I mean other metropolitan regions have similar issues with competition from Pro Sports but you have seen programs emerge in those regions.

I do know that at one-time, Notre Dame had a pretty large following in the NYC area due to the Catholic/Irish connection.
 
Volbound1700 said:
Yeah, that isn't necessarily the best way to look at it (especially in short term). The main reason CFB took off in many of the other high population states (many of them also having pro teams) is that you had solid CFB programs dating back to 1920s and before. Traditions have emerged from that period that have followed us to today.

There just wasn't the major school in New York in the 1920s/1930s that was able to develop the tradition as the go-to sports program like you see with other areas.

I mean other metropolitan regions have similar issues with competition from Pro Sports but you have seen programs emerge in those regions.

I do know that at one-time, Notre Dame had a pretty large following in the NYC area due to the Catholic/Irish connection.
Click to expand...

Adding Rutgers to the Big Ten was a long term gamble. I don't think anyone expected Rutgers to develop tradition and dominate the NYC market in a few years. However, they're starting to get Big Ten money and Rutgers sports has never had that kind of cash flushed into the program before. Getting Schiano back should help them in the short term and improve recruiting.

It's an easier turnaround in a sport like basketball. Rutgers has put together 3 years in a row where they were an NCAAT caliber program and the fanbase is engaged once again. This could easily end up happening in football, it's just going to take more time.
 
Volbound1700 said:
Yeah, that isn't necessarily the best way to look at it (especially in short term). The main reason CFB took off in many of the other high population states (many of them also having pro teams) is that you had solid CFB programs dating back to 1920s and before. Traditions have emerged from that period that have followed us to today.

There just wasn't the major school in New York in the 1920s/1930s that was able to develop the tradition as the go-to sports program like you see with other areas.

I mean other metropolitan regions have similar issues with competition from Pro Sports but you have seen programs emerge in those regions.

I do know that at one-time, Notre Dame had a pretty large following in the NYC area due to the Catholic/Irish connection.
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But most of those areas had developed huge college followings before they got Professional teams. Take MLB as an example, up until the late 50's the western most team was St. Louis, and there were none below the Mason Dixon line.
 
duckboy33 said:
That was the Big Ten's vision when they added Rutgers. It's technically not in NY but it's the closest program to NYC that exists. Obviously Rutgers doesn't have the tradition so it's definitely a work in progress. It will be interesting to see if that ever pans out for Rutgers and the Big Ten.
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From what I've been told, the NYC college football fans are really alumni who now live there but are from all over the country. They gather at certain bars/restaurants in groups. And many have multiple groups. Probably several Ohio State, USC, Bama, Texas alumni that gather up on Saturdays at their favorite watering holes.

As far as Texas goes, the schools at the two major metropolitan areas that have pro teams don't really draw a lot of fans either. Houston has Rice and UH. (A&M ain't far away.) DFW has TCU, SMU, UNT and UTA.
 
Volbound1700 said:
I do know that at one-time, Notre Dame had a pretty large following in the NYC area due to the Catholic/Irish connection.
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The year Notre Dame played in the Sun Bowl it sold out in less than a day because of this. Most years it doesn't even sell out.

El Paso sends A LOT of students to Notre Dame because of this. Of my oldest daughters three closest friends, two of them attended Notre Dame. And they said there were about 50 other El Pasoans there at the same times.
 
Volbound1700 said:
I will say one of the most baffling ideas about College Football to me is the fact that the third most populous state (and actually the most populous through most of CFB history) with one of the largest cities in the globe does NOT have a major College Football Program.

Sure they got Syracuse but that program has been irrelevant in Football the last 20 years and is a private school.

I am shocked there isn't a University of New York that is the size of a Michigan or Ohio State with a 100k stadium and millions of fans throughout that state that plays at an elite level.

I imagine this is why College Football is not a major sport in the New York/New England area. You have Boston College, UConn (if you want to even count them), and Syracuse as the major programs but all three have been pretty irrelevant and don't really draw large crowds.

I guess this is what has always baffled me about the sport. Seems like a major missed opportunity. I guess you really didn't have a school in the area that could historically fit the requirement to become a major Power 5 program.
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There are a lot more smaller colleges in NY and the northeast in general. The “university of New York” is the SUNY system which has 4 universities the largest being Buffalo and Stony Brook. Buffalo is the only one that is FBS level and barely. The rest of the system are smaller colleges. If they were all added into one university it would probably have the largest enrollment in the country.

But they’re not big on football because the high schools don’t feed them talent. We had a really great hs program (for NY) I can recall maybe one FBS recruit in my lifetime there. Played against a handful of others. But as good as we were they’d get squashed by southern teams.
 
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Deep Creek said:
From what I've been told, the NYC college football fans are really alumni who now live there but are from all over the country. They gather at certain bars/restaurants in groups. And many have multiple groups. Probably several Ohio State, USC, Bama, Texas alumni that gather up on Saturdays at their favorite watering holes.

As far as Texas goes, the schools at the two major metropolitan areas that have pro teams don't really draw a lot of fans either. Houston has Rice and UH. (A&M ain't far away.) DFW has TCU, SMU, UNT and UTA.
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Every time I've been in NYC, if I saw people in college gear, it was always Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Texas, UF, Bama, ND, etc.

Most locals were wearing the area Pro teams.
 
Deep Creek said:
The year Notre Dame played in the Sun Bowl it sold out in less than a day because of this. Most years it doesn't even sell out.

El Paso sends A LOT of students to Notre Dame because of this. Of my oldest daughters three closest friends, two of them attended Notre Dame. And they said there were about 50 other El Pasoans there at the same times.
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Also had to do with the fact it was the first time playing Miami in 20 years.
 
duckboy33 said:
Adding Rutgers to the Big Ten was a long term gamble. I don't think anyone expected Rutgers to develop tradition and dominate the NYC market in a few years. However, they're starting to get Big Ten money and Rutgers sports has never had that kind of cash flushed into the program before. Getting Schiano back should help them in the short term and improve recruiting.

It's an easier turnaround in a sport like basketball. Rutgers has put together 3 years in a row where they were an NCAAT caliber program and the fanbase is engaged once again. This could easily end up happening in football, it's just going to take more time.
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The Big10 added Rutgers because it turned New York City/New Jersey television packages to in network and upped the payout for each of those packages from .35ish per household to over a dollar per contract. Roughly .70 increase for around 8million televisions nets an increase in TV income of $5.6 million per month or over $67 million per year. Roughly $4.5 million increase per team per year.

I don’t think any team out there would be able to bring in that kind of revenue that was actually gettable at that time.
 
This is literally something that has never once crossed my mind.

the things i have thought about though is the difference some states have in terms of their University of and their x state school.

why is University of Oregon and Oregon State, University of Florida and Florida State, University of Michigan and Michigan State a thing
while Ohio State and university of Ohio and University of Texas and Texas State are P5 vs G5?
why is there a University of Hawaii, University of Wyoming, university of Nebraska but no Hawaii state, Wyoming state or Nebraska state?
 
Can you imagine the cost of real estate in NYC to have the facilities it takes for a top program?
 
OlyDuck said:
This is literally something that has never once crossed my mind.

the things i have thought about though is the difference some states have in terms of their University of and their x state school.

why is University of Oregon and Oregon State, University of Florida and Florida State, University of Michigan and Michigan State a thing
while Ohio State and university of Ohio and University of Texas and Texas State are P5 vs G5?
why is there a University of Hawaii, University of Wyoming, university of Nebraska but no Hawaii state, Wyoming state or Nebraska state?
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Texas State wasn't even the name until like 20 years ago. It was Southwest Texas State until then.
 
Penn St gets a lot of talent out of that region.

Nebraska's had some great players from the NY/NJ area.
 
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