New Zealand science vs wokeism

[Sparhawk]

Kind of interesting

“Ways of knowing”: New Zealand pushes to have “indigenous knowledge” (mythology) taught on parity with modern science in science class

One of the most invidious and injurious side effects of wokeism is to validate “other ways of knowing” as being on par with modern scientific knowledge. Granted, one can respect the myt…

whyevolutionistrue.com

Why punish a scientist for defending science? | The Spectator

As a defender of free speech, I sometimes feel like a man falling through a collapsing building. Just when you think you’ve finally reached rock bottom, the floor gives way again. That was my sensation last week when I read about the disciplinary investigation of Professor Garth Cooper by the...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[ill]

first off, I don't like referring to it as "wokeism" when it really just sounds like they want to tie mythology in with science in their schools...

that would be like teaching about Greek gods in a biology class...and I don't agree with that

 

[DraftNerd]

Interesting indeed.

I think the scientists said it best here….this is a fair subject to be taught in school. It is important to preserve culture. That sounds woke to me on its own.

But, putting a cultural contextualized explanation of the known world, created before we learned how to empirically quantify the known world, on par with that logical and empirical process is nonsense.

It won’t help these indigenous kids make it anywhere in this world. Its a gross overreach of the concept of diversity and inclusion, and it’s a perfect example of how people that have been supportive of being more “woke” are starting to turn the other way on it.

Good share!

 

[ill]

Interesting indeed.

I think the scientists said it best here….this is a fair subject to be taught in school. It is important to preserve culture. That sounds woke to me on its own.

But, putting a cultural contextualized explanation of the known world, created before we learned how to empirically quantify the known world, on par with that logical and empirical process is nonsense.

It won’t help these indigenous kids make it anywhere in this world. Its a gross overreach of the concept of diversity and inclusion, and it’s a perfect example of how people that have been supportive of being more “woke” are starting to turn the other way on it.

Good share!

what is "woke" about it?

that term is getting over/misused IMO

is teaching about Jesus in school considered "woke"?

 

[DraftNerd]

first off, I don't like referring to it as "wokeism" when it really just sounds like they want to tie mythology in with science in their schools...

that would be like teaching about Greek gods in a biology class...and I don't agree with that

Let’s not get it caught in the buzzy terminology, that’s fair.

You would agree though that this is an example of being more inclusive of all diversity is being mishandled?

 

[DraftNerd]

what is "woke" about it?

that term is getting over/misused IMO

I’ve replied to your post. To add more to it….I’m not interested in getting caught up in the buzz words that have been geared to create negative reactions on both sides.

Take “woke” out of it. It’s become a tainted term that leaves both sides just arguing over a word….and not discussing the issues.

 

[ill]

Let’s not get it caught in the buzzy terminology, that’s fair.

You would agree though that this is an example of being more inclusive of all diversity is being mishandled?

I think it should be taught in a New Zealand history or culture class...but I don't see what about it is "science"

I agree with the scientists on this.

the Native culture in NZ is more ingrained over there than here, so I don't expect to see anything like that here with the Native American cultures...but it would be an interesting thing to learn in its own class...but just not in science

 

[DraftNerd]

I think it should be taught in a New Zealand history or culture class...but I don't see what about it is "science"

I agree with the scientists on this.

the Native culture in NZ is more ingrained over there than here, so I don't expect to see anything like that here with the Native American cultures...but it would be an interesting thing to learn in its own class...but just not in science

Absolutely and fully agree on this. Culture = social science. I’m all for it for them…and would be all for appropriate Native American studies here.

I’m just sick of the “straight to cancel/fire” approach on all these things. You don’t win hearts and minds that way.

 

[ill]

Absolutely and fully agree on this. Culture = social science. I’m all for it for them…and would be all for appropriate Native American studies here.

I’m just sick of the “straight to cancel/fire” approach on all these things. You don’t win hearts and minds that way.

it sounds like this is something being driven by government though. Scientists responded with a letter saying "no, we don't agree" and some of the scientists faced consequences for disagreeing and signing the letter.

I don't think anyone was "canceled" over it...

but if the privately owned company you work for decides that you are doing something harmful to their cause, they can do what they want

 

[oh-jay-bee eighty-one]

New Zealand's for lovers.

 

[Rex Racer]

This is too cute. The same Americans that promote teaching about the AGW scam are bitching about New Zealander's keeping "indigenous knowledge" in their curriculum.

 

[Sparhawk]

Also worth noting that back in the day, scientists thought everything revolved around the Earth. And was flat.

So, science isn't always 100% accurate, but I just thought it was an interesting read and how being 'woke' is conflating science and mythology.

Creationism and Maori culture can be taught with the proper context, just as science should be taught with what mistakes have occurred in the past.

 

[DraftNerd]

it sounds like this is something being driven by government though. Scientists responded with a letter saying "no, we don't agree" and some of the scientists faced consequences for disagreeing and signing the letter.

I don't think anyone was "canceled" over it...

but if the privately owned company you work for decides that you are doing something harmful to their cause, they can do what they want

You’re right…I’m using the same inflammatory terminology that we all just get caught on anymore and accomplish nothing.

There is nothing about “cancelling” per se….but the second article does mention a professor supposedly at risk of being expelled for expressing his opinion.

Beyond that I don’t know the full details. But, on the face of what is reported….government says they are pushing for this to be taught on par with science. Scientist says “I do not agree with this at all”.

On that alone his position should not be at jeopardy.

 

[ill]

You’re right…I’m using the same inflammatory terminology that we all just get caught on anymore and accomplish nothing.

There is nothing about “cancelling” per se….but the second article does mention a professor supposedly at risk of being expelled for expressing his opinion.

Beyond that I don’t know the full details. But, on the face of what is reported….government says they are pushing for this to be taught on par with science. Scientist says “I do not agree with this at all”.

On that alone his position should not be at jeopardy.

depends on who is firing them. It's kind of their decision.

If said scientist is taking a risk by signing this, they had to know the risk going into it.

 

[Mofo]

first off, I don't like referring to it as "wokeism" when it really just sounds like they want to tie mythology in with science in their schools...

that would be like teaching about Greek gods in a biology class...and I don't agree with that

This is exactly what it is like. It's insertion of the Maori religion into science and presenting the two as equivalent. The article even referenced 'Tane' and 'Papatuanuku', Maori gods associated with creation. The equivalent is saying, YES, that lightning is the product of the Greek god, Zeus.

The only difference here, is that it's an indigenous ethnicity being given credence, rather than some ancient European / Asian culture. It's the same as arguing creationism in public school biology, except Jesus has been replaced with some other fake asshole.

 

[DraftNerd]

depends on who is firing them. It's kind of their decision.

If said scientist is taking a risk by signing this, they had to know the risk going into it.

You’re right. If what they sign is degrading of the culture and uses language like how their savage traditions should not be held up with science I could see a point.

But, what they said was that this is important learning, but not on the same par with science. You said yourself you agreed.

So I’m not sure why the guy is at jeopardy of being let go (or, honestly, if the guy is even at jeopardy of being let go….or if this was emotion inciting bad journalism that has become the norm too often).

 

[Mofo]

emotion inciting bad journalism that has become the norm too often).

The hell you say.

 

[DraftNerd]

The hell you say.

Yes, that is one huge, ugly, annoying example.

 

[ill]

This is exactly what it is like. It's insertion of the Maori religion into science and presenting the two as equivalent. The article even referenced 'Tane' and 'Papatuanuku', Maori gods associated with creation. The equivalent is saying, YES, that lightning is the product of the Greek god, Zeus.

The only difference here, is that it's an indigenous ethnicity being given credence, rather than some ancient European / Asian culture. It's the same as arguing creationism in public school biology, except Jesus has been replaced with some other fake asshole.

It's mythology, not religion. They aren't telling you to worship anything and they aren't forcing anything on you.

But it shouldn't be tied to a science class.

 

[ill]

You’re right. If what they sign is degrading of the culture and uses language like how their savage traditions should not be held up with science I could see a point.

But, what they said was that this is important learning, but not on the same par with science. You said yourself you agreed.

So I’m not sure why the guy is at jeopardy of being let go (or, honestly, if the guy is even at jeopardy of being let go….or if this was emotion inciting bad journalism that has become the norm too often).

I don't either, I don't know the details surrounding his firing