Question for those criticizing the SEC for the 8-game schedule

[rmilia1]

Meh, I'm all for shitting on the SEC, but this just isn't completely true. Just last season, we had
Utah-Florida (Utah was favored on the road)
Oregon-UGA (when scheduled was probably close to a toss up or slight edge to Georgia)
FSU - LSU (FSU won)
Alabama - Texas (who can bama actually schedule that they aren't favored in)
Tennessee - Pitt (Tennessee was favored in this but Pitt won the year before)
Penn St - Auburn (Penn St killed them)
A&M - Miami (toss up)

Only one of those games would be considered scheduling up ( Utah vs Florida ) and that was by happenstance not tradition

The reason people get upset the SEC only plays 8 league games isn't because of LSU/Bama/UGA type schools

Its because the middle and bottom of the league get artificially inflated recotds by consistently playing down in the OOC so when Bama,beats 5-0 Missouri early on the year is seen as a quality win when it's really not

It's why they have so many bowl eligible teams each year with .500 or better records ( a committee criteria )

Ultimately lots of leagues would have 75%+ bowl eligible teams if they only played 8 league games AND the mid to bottom of their league played ooc schedules akin to the SEC teams in that area in that league

 

[rmilia1]

Like for example last year the SEC had 4 teams make bowl games with losing SEC records who only made bowl games because their 4 game OOC records were perfect

Those 4 teams webt 1-3 in their Bowls and lost by an average of 14 ppg

If those 4 teams had played 9 league games is likely 2+ of them don't make a bowl game

But because they were .500 or better they were seen as "quality" wins by the committee for the purposes of their rankings

Conversely the leagues who play 9 league games all had at least one sub .500 league team who likely would've made a bowl game had they played only 8 league games as opposed to 9


This isn't an indictment on the SEC ( or the ACC for that matter ). Its smart and it's why those leagues are always well represented in the playoff while leagues like the B12 and P12 are not

But it would be nice to have uniformity across the board ie scheduling

 

[ericd7633]

Sure. I didnt say cupcakes though. I said very winnable. The SEC teams will likely be favored in what 80% of those ganes ? You just don't really see too many SEC teams schedule up unless it's a long term rivalry like SC vs Clemson

. Like Kentucky isn't going to play Michigan like Wisky played LSU/Bama. Or Mizzou isn't scheduling Oklahoma like Nebraska did etc


There's almost none of that with SEC schools. They're rarely playing an OOC game they aren't either supposed to win or at least have a good shot to win

SEC is favored because they are typically better across the board in terms of pecking order. Just in like the last 5/6 years Tennessee has played Oklahoma, UGA has played Clemson and ND, Florida has played Michigan, along with FSU, Utah, and Miami, Vandy has played KSU. Bama has played Texas, FSU, Miami and USC. Auburn has played Clemson, Washington, Oregon and PSU. LSU has played FSU, Texas, and Miami. A&M has played Clemson, and Miami. Arkansas was supposed to play ND in 2020. Miss St has played KSU.

They've played big time programs with the exception of like OSU. I'm not sure who else you want them to play?

 

[RubinRock]

SEC is favored because they are typically better across the board in terms of pecking order. Just in like the last 5/6 years Tennessee has played Oklahoma, UGA has played Clemson and ND, Florida has played Michigan, along with FSU, Utah, and Miami, Vandy has played KSU. Bama has played Texas, FSU, Miami and USC. Auburn has played Clemson, Washington, Oregon and PSU. LSU has played FSU, Texas, and Miami. A&M has played Clemson, and Miami. Arkansas was supposed to play ND in 2020. Miss St has played KSU.

They've played big time programs with the exception of like OSU. I'm not sure who else you want them to play?

Yeah I’m not sure who he wants all these teams to schedule? Just have OSU play all 16 SEC teams from now on?

Who are all these Big10, PAC, or Big12 teams scheduling that are so tough compared to the SEC scheduling? I agree that there is insane bias towards the sec, but this whole 8 vs 9 conference game thing has always seemed like a weak argument to me

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Yeah I’m not sure who he wants all these teams to schedule? Just have OSU play all 16 SEC teams from now on?

Who are all these Big10, PAC, or Big12 teams scheduling that are so tough compared to the SEC scheduling? I agree that there is insane bias towards the sec, but this whole 8 vs 9 conference game thing has always seemed like a weak argument to me

I am doing a chart and what is becoming apparent is that if you see teams playing the better SEC teams, you can be damn sure they have a great OOC. Take you guys - much respect - you are on UGA's, Bama's, Auburn's, not UF. That's as far as I have gotten. But that means that you have scheduled Bama, UGA, and Auburn a lot, not to mention your annual hate game against the Cocks.

UF has been the most interesting one so far. No a good OOC in the past, but damned if they haven't manned up in the future.

 

[rmilia1]

SEC is favored because they are typically better across the board in terms of pecking order. Just in like the last 5/6 years Tennessee has played Oklahoma, UGA has played Clemson and ND, Florida has played Michigan, along with FSU, Utah, and Miami, Vandy has played KSU. Bama has played Texas, FSU, Miami and USC. Auburn has played Clemson, Washington, Oregon and PSU. LSU has played FSU, Texas, and Miami. A&M has played Clemson, and Miami. Arkansas was supposed to play ND in 2020. Miss St has played KSU.

They've played big time programs with the exception of like OSU. I'm not sure who else you want them to play?

Those largely arent the teams im speaking too

The top part of the SEC is incursion

It's the middle to bottom that matters because those are the teams who nearly ever play up OOC which leads to inflated OOC records which in turn leads to the top tier getting "quality" wins over 6/7 won teams who would likely be 5 win teams if they played a 9 game league schedule

The Miss State/UK/Mizzou type teams who basically never play up. They're entire ooc is built on teams they should beat or ( worst case ) they're toss up with

Imo if you're gong to play an 8 game league svelte l schedule you should be held accountable to play 2 P5 teams OOC since most every team who plays a 9 game league schedule plays a P5 OOC ( not all of them but the vast majority do )

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

The Miss State/UK/Mizzou type teams who basically never play up. They're entire ooc is built on teams they should beat or ( worst case ) they're toss up with

You should really go look at MSU's OOC past and future ... it's not what you say it is. It might surprise you. UK plays Louisville every year, which is solid but the rest are weak. Same with Mizzou ... they aren't playing tOSU, Michigan, etc. but they do play KSU, Illinois, Kansas, Colorado, Army, SDSU, sometimes multiples of those in a year. Again, not killer but also not the 4 weak teams you are referring to.

Vanderbilt has NC State, VaTech, SMU, Standford, Purdue, again some multiples in the same year.

USCjr gets Clemson every year and also has games against VaTech, Miami, UNC, NC State.

I don't think the mid to lower teams in the SEC have as bad a schedule as you think. Check it out.

2025 SEC Football Schedule | FBSchedules.com

View the 2025 SEC football schedule at FBSchedules.com. We also have team schedules, future schedules, and future non-conference opponents.

fbschedules.com

I still support 9 IC games. But if you are mid to low-level SEC and you are going to play 3-4 of this:

UGA, Bama, LSU, Texas, OU, ATM, UF, AU, UTjr

And at least one other decent P5, I am confident that is a tougher schedule than other P5 teams playing 9 IC games.

 

[rmilia1]

You should really go look at MSU's OOC past and future ... it's not what you say it is. It might surprise you. UK plays Louisville every year, which is solid but the rest are weak. Same with Mizzou ... they aren't playing tOSU, Michigan, etc. but they do play KSU, Illinois, Kansas, Colorado, Army, SDSU, sometimes multiples of those in a year. Again, not killer but also not the 4 weak teams you are referring to.

Vanderbilt has NC State, VaTech, SMU, Standford, Purdue, again some multiples in the same year.

USCjr gets Clemson every year and also has games against VaTech, Miami, UNC, NC State.

I don't think the mid to lower teams in the SEC have as bad a schedule as you think. Check it out.

2025 SEC Football Schedule | FBSchedules.com

View the 2025 SEC football schedule at FBSchedules.com. We also have team schedules, future schedules, and future non-conference opponents.

fbschedules.com

I still support 9 IC games. But if you are mid to low-level SEC and you are going to play 3-4 of this:

UGA, Bama, LSU, Texas, OU, ATM, UF, AU, UTjr

And at least one other decent P5, I am confident that is a tougher schedule than other P5 teams playing 9 IC games.

Pretty much every game you listed isnt playing up though w which is my point

Yes they occasionally played other mid tier P5s like themselves

I give Vandy a pass. Every P5 is playing up for them lol

SCar is the exception as they have the Clemson rivalry


But you just don't see the others playing games vs teams who are traditionally better than them like you do with other P5 leagues

And listen i completely get it. My team is the Kentucky of the B10. We play an average to below average Iowa St and then junk.

But when we played 4 OOC games we almost always at least played 2 P5 teams even if they weren't great. You don't even see that with mud to bottom SEC teams

If UK played Louisville AND another Pitt/AZST/KState type team then I'd be cool

But those type teams don't do that at their schedule is akin to a P12 team playing 3 G5/FCS type teams OOC

 

[UbetterDUCK]

Is this thread a copy and paste from CBS SportsLine from 2011?

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Pretty much every game you listed isnt playing up though w which is my point

Yes they occasionally played other mid tier P5s like themselves

I give Vandy a pass. Every P5 is playing up for them lol

SCar is the exception as they have the Clemson rivalry


But you just don't see the others playing games vs teams who are traditionally better than them like you do with other P5 leagues

And listen i completely get it. My team is the Kentucky of the B10. We play an average to below average Iowa St and then junk.

But when we played 4 OOC games we almost always at least played 2 P5 teams even if they weren't great. You don't even see that with mud to bottom SEC teams

If UK played Louisville AND another Pitt/AZST/KState type team then I'd be cool

But those type teams don't do that at their schedule is akin to a P12 team playing 3 G5/FCS type teams OOC

As I have stated, I am for 9 games IC, so I am not really defending them.

But, their schedules aren't as easy as I think you were making them out to be. In every conference, you really don't see mid to low teams playing elite teams. The elites are playing each other, and the mids and lows are playing each other. At least in the B1G.

Now that there are no longer divisions, and OU and TX are in the league, you are going to have a hard time telling a team that has this schedule every other year:

Bama, Texas, LSU, AU, Arky
UGA, OU, UF, ATM, UTjr

To play up another OOC game. I know that today some of those games aren't scary, but they cycle in and out and they are going to have 3-4 sure losses every year.

It's the "SEC is just better" argument, and I know that many will disagree, but it is what it is.

 

[ericd7633]

Those largely arent the teams im speaking too

The top part of the SEC is incursion

It's the middle to bottom that matters because those are the teams who nearly ever play up OOC which leads to inflated OOC records which in turn leads to the top tier getting "quality" wins over 6/7 won teams who would likely be 5 win teams if they played a 9 game league schedule

The Miss State/UK/Mizzou type teams who basically never play up. They're entire ooc is built on teams they should beat or ( worst case ) they're toss up with

Imo if you're gong to play an 8 game league svelte l schedule you should be held accountable to play 2 P5 teams OOC since most every team who plays a 9 game league schedule plays a P5 OOC ( not all of them but the vast majority do )

Since Missouri has joined the SEC, they've played Kansas State, BC, WVU, BYU, Purdue, UCF, IU and ASU. Some of those are definitely scheduling up IMO. UK plays UL every season, which from a historical perspective is playing up every year IMO. Yes, there other 3 OOC games are largely crap, I'd agree. Miss State has had games against Oklahoma State, BYU, KSU, NC State and Arizona. So yeah, these teams haven't played Ohio State, Michigan, PSU, OU, USC, Clemson, or the FSU types, but teams in the mid to bottom tier in the other leagues aren't playing those games either. You mentioned Wisconsin playing LSU/Bama, but they are the B1G's 4th best program the last 30 years, so basically the equivalent to whoever the 4th best program in the SEC would be over that timeframe, and no matter who that is, is playing quality OOC games, whether it be UGA, LSU, or UF.

 

[RubinRock]

Pretty much every game you listed isnt playing up though w which is my point

Yes they occasionally played other mid tier P5s like themselves

I give Vandy a pass. Every P5 is playing up for them lol

SCar is the exception as they have the Clemson rivalry


But you just don't see the others playing games vs teams who are traditionally better than them like you do with other P5 leagues

And listen i completely get it. My team is the Kentucky of the B10. We play an average to below average Iowa St and then junk.

But when we played 4 OOC games we almost always at least played 2 P5 teams even if they weren't great. You don't even see that with mud to bottom SEC teams

If UK played Louisville AND another Pitt/AZST/KState type team then I'd be cool

But those type teams don't do that at their schedule is akin to a P12 team playing 3 G5/FCS type teams OOC

Please just list the allowed "scheduling up" teams

 

[rmilia1]

Please just list the allowed "scheduling up" teams

Teams who are better historically ( past 30 years or so )by a significant margin

For teams like Miss St/UK/Mizzou ( and a few others ) that's quite a few teams

Just in the B10

Ohio St
Michigan
Michigan St
Penn St
Wisconsin
Iowa


There are probably 4 too 6 teams in each of the other P5s that fit the bill too

Obviously all the SEC teams cant play those types of games every year but occasionally would be good


Ultimately when you play 8 league games you should be held accountable to play 2 P5 OOC games pretty much every year in order to match to leagues playing 9 league games as most every team playing 9 league games also plays 1 P5 OOC

 

[Hu War Yu]

Like for example last year the SEC had 4 teams make bowl games with losing SEC records who only made bowl games because their 4 game OOC records were perfect

Those 4 teams webt 1-3 in their Bowls and lost by an average of 14 ppg

If those 4 teams had played 9 league games is likely 2+ of them don't make a bowl game

But because they were .500 or better they were seen as "quality" wins by the committee for the purposes of their rankings

Bowls are simply about tourism dollars. If there are two fewer SEC teams to take every year, then there are two more bowl committees/chambers of commerce who are disappointed in the game turnout. If those two extra SEC teams hadn't been eligible, who else do those bows take?

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Teams who are better historically ( past 30 years or so )by a significant margin

For teams like Miss St/UK/Mizzou ( and a few others ) that's quite a few teams

Just in the B10

Ohio St
Michigan
Michigan St
Penn St
Wisconsin
Iowa


There are probably 4 too 6 teams in each of the other P5s that fit the bill too

Obviously all the SEC teams cant play those types of games every year but occasionally would be good


Ultimately when you play 8 league games you should be held accountable to play 2 P5 OOC games pretty much every year in order to match to leagues playing 9 league games as most every team playing 9 league games also plays 1 P5 OOC

So, each SEC team has to play 2 good P5 to balance things out.

As a Vanderbilt alumn, my team will have to play the following every other year schedule:

Bama, Texas, LSU, AU, Arky
UGA, OU, UF, ATM, UTjr

What do you propose that B12, PAC, and ACC schools should have to do to balance that out? I would go as far as to say what about B1G teams ... what do they have to do in order to play a slate the equivalent of that? Because it seems to me the low to mid-SEC schools play a tougher slate of games even if they only play 8.

We know that is true for the non-P2 conferences. Here is the B1G equivalent:

tOSU, PSU, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois
UM, Wisky, Minny, MSU, Purdue

I think Vandy would love to play a 9-game B1G slate.

I am for 9 IC games, but you can't look at this from the perspective of the low and middle SEC schools without looking at the SOS of the IC schedule.

 

[RubinRock]

Teams who are better historically ( past 30 years or so )by a significant margin

For teams like Miss St/UK/Mizzou ( and a few others ) that's quite a few teams

Just in the B10

Ohio St
Michigan
Michigan St
Penn St
Wisconsin
Iowa


There are probably 4 too 6 teams in each of the other P5s that fit the bill too

Obviously all the SEC teams cant play those types of games every year but occasionally would be good


Ultimately when you play 8 league games you should be held accountable to play 2 P5 OOC games pretty much every year in order to match to leagues playing 9 league games as most every team playing 9 league games also plays 1 P5 OOC

So your issue is not with the SEC, but a few of the historically weaker teams having weak scheduling?

Rutgers, Northwestern, Maryland, minnesota. All generally schedule weak every year with maybe a one of series that's considered good. This happens in every conference.

And have you seen Iowa's ooc schedule the last decade and its future schedule. Its toughest opponents have been Iowa St (who historically is pretty mediocre) North Dakota St (fcs, albeit a strong one) and Pitt (8 years ago). Doesn't seem like they are too interested in scheduling up or playing decent teams often. What makes you think they'd schedule any of those SEC teams.

Again i agree that the sec is overrated at times, even if it is the best conference, and that this impacts the polls. I just don't think it has as much to do with the ooc scheduling.

 

[Hu War Yu]

South Carolina's OOC for the past decade:
2022: Georgia State, Charlotte, SC State, Clemson - crap
2021: Eastern Illinois, East Carolina, Troy, Clemson - crap
2020: Covid. - not sure who was on the schedule for that year, but probably crap
2019: UNC, Charleston Southern, Clemson, Appy State (lost that game) - decent
2018: Coastal Carolina, Chattanooga, Akron, Clemson - crap
2017: NC State, Louisiana Tech, Wofford, Clemson - decent
2016: Western Carolina, UMASS, East Carolina, Clemson - crap
2015: UNC, UCF, Citadel (lost the game), Clemson - good
2014: East Carolina, Furman, South Bama, Clemson - crap
2013: UNC, UCF, Coastal Carolina, Clemson - good

Again, not going to apologize for that.

 

[rmilia1]

Bowls are simply about tourism dollars. If there are two fewer SEC teams to take every year, then there are two more bowl committees/chambers of commerce who are disappointed in the game turnout. If those two extra SEC teams hadn't been eligible, who else do those bows take?

Sure but my point isn't really about the Bowls

It's about the criteria the committee uses for rankings

One if which is quality wins ( wins over. 500 or better teams )

Which type simply more likely to have when your league only plays 8 league games instead of 9

 

[Red_Alert]

Bowls are simply about tourism dollars. If there are two fewer SEC teams to take every year, then there are two more bowl committees/chambers of commerce who are disappointed in the game turnout. If those two extra SEC teams hadn't been eligible, who else do those bows take?

It would have to be a (5-7) P5 with a 'Best of the Rest' APR, or a couple of G5's that wouldn't normally get selected even with 6 wins.

 

[Hu War Yu]

It would have to be a (5-7) P5 with a 'Best of the Rest' APR, or a couple of G5's that wouldn't normally get selected even with 6 wins.

Nevermind, he wasn't talking about bowls