Someone explain to me why Bryce Harper is getting so much MVP buzz

DragonFromTo said:
Well, obviously Austin Riley would be perfectly fine as the winner and Harper would be a disgrace. I mean, look at that! 0.2 wins! It's crystal clear that he had a better year :wink:
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Except that one player actually helped his team win while the other just accumulated numbers.
 
calsnowskier said:
Except that one player actually helped his team win while the other just accumulated numbers.
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This argument can certainly be made (although I wouldn't state it this way) and in this specific case I suspect it's not completely invalid (I haven't looked in much detail). But you also can't really find any evidence for that argument in what I responded to.
 
Imho, if there is 1 player who is head and shoulders above everyone else, than team performance isn’t really that much of a factor.

this year, there is not a single player who has blown everyone else away.

So now you HAVE to factor in team performance and situational scenarios. While Crawford doesn’t have the numbers of the top guys, he does have very good numbers and he was the CLEAR best player on the best team. Take him off the Giants and there is no question that the Giants do not win the West, and they might not even win a WC slot. I am not familiar enough with the Braves situation, but it sounds like Riley might be in a similar position with the Braves.

Harper, Sato and Tatis, I think, are the clear top 3 by the numbers, but none of them were able to get their teams to the post season, so their good numbers were essentially pointless. Therefore, imho, it should be between Crawford and Riley.

Lots of moving parts, and no clear hands down arguments for anyone. It could go any way.
 
Fish said:
Let It Be for $100 alex.
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Illustrious Potentate said:
Second worst song of all time
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let it go GIF
 
calsnowskier said:
Imho, if there is 1 player who is head and shoulders above everyone else, than team performance isn’t really that much of a factor.

this year, there is not a single player who has blown everyone else away.

So now you HAVE to factor in team performance and situational scenarios. While Crawford doesn’t have the numbers of the top guys, he does have very good numbers and he was the CLEAR best player on the best team. Take him off the Giants and there is no question that the Giants do not win the West, and they might not even win a WC slot. I am not familiar enough with the Braves situation, but it sounds like Riley might be in a similar position with the Braves.

Harper, Sato and Tatis, I think, are the clear top 3 by the numbers, but none of them were able to get their teams to the post season, so their good numbers were essentially pointless. Therefore, imho, it should be between Crawford and Riley.

Lots of moving parts, and no clear hands down arguments for anyone. It could go any way.
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And you could argue the Giants would have (easily) made the playoffs without Crawford.
 
navamind said:
And you could argue the Giants would have (easily) made the playoffs without Crawford.
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And you could argue the Earth is flat.

Crawford has been the hands down team MVP this year.

Either way, if you don’t believe he was important to the Giants, don’t “vote” for him. I will find a way to deal with it.
 
wRC+
Bryce Harper 170
#1 in MLB.

Discussion over.
 
ELTEXAN said:
wRC+
Bryce Harper 170
#1 in MLB.

Discussion over.
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0-14 with 6 k’s with he team’s season on the line. That’s not an MVP. That’s a guy that shrinks when his team needs him
 
I've never understood the Bryce Harper hype. He puts up numbers, but they don't seem to translate to wins as much as they should. He's like baseball's version of Russell Westbrook.
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
0-14 with 6 k’s with he team’s season on the line. That’s not an MVP. That’s a guy that shrinks when his team needs him
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The question was why is he getting hype for mvp.
He’s literally the top in offensive production (wrc+)
That’s the answer. He’s literally at the very top of all mlb.
 
ELTEXAN said:
The question was why is he getting hype for mvp.
He’s literally the top in offensive production (wrc+)
That’s the answer. He’s literally at the very top of all mlb.
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That just proves how useless that stat is. Eyeballs man, use em. You can't come up small when your season is on the line and be MVP.
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
That just proves how useless that stat is. Eyeballs man, use em. You can't come up small when your season is on the line and be MVP.
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Lmao. Ok. The total offensive production, weighted for each category is useless, and it is such because of use of your circular logic. Got it. Lmao.
 
ELTEXAN said:
Lmao. Ok. The total offensive production, weighted for each category is useless, and it is such because of use of your circular logic. Got it. Lmao.
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How did that help him when his season was on the line?
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
0-14 with 6 k’s with he team’s season on the line. That’s not an MVP. That’s a guy that shrinks when his team needs him
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Making broad conclusions based on one series worth of ABs?

I can see why you are doing it and I can even see why you believe it. Hell, the general point you are making might even be true. But stop acting like this data is some kind of conversation-ending hard proof when you know full well that it isn't.

I mean do we ever talk about how Willie Mays only hit one postseason HR in his entire career? If you want to draw a broad conclusion about a player's character and ability to deal with big situations that one has even more "evidence". I've never heard anyone on a message board or a broadcast talk at all about the Say Hey Kid's inability to come through when his team really needed him (nor am I calling for them to start doing so :wink: ).
 
DragonFromTo said:
Making broad conclusions based on one series worth of ABs?

I can see why you are doing it and I can even see why you believe it. Hell, the general point you are making might even be true. But stop acting like this data is some kind of conversation-ending hard proof when you know full well that it isn't.

I mean do we ever talk about how Willie Mays only hit one postseason HR in his entire career? If you want to draw a broad conclusion about a player's character and ability to deal with big situations that one has even more "evidence". I've never heard anyone on a message board or a broadcast talk at all about the Say Hey Kid's inability to come through when his team really needed him (nor am I calling for them to start doing so :wink: ).
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I was unaware about that stat for Mays. Now I have something to argue with no context for Hank>>>Willie(goes for country singers too FTR). Thank you sir
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
I was unaware about that stat for Mays. Now I have something to argue with no context for Hank>>>Willie(goes for country singers too FTR). Thank you sir
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You really want to open up that phony door for everyone that you argue with? There are certainly a lot of great Braves with postseason records that are far from great to throw right back at you.

I would add too that if you didn't know that detail about Mays think about what you also might have missed here with Harper. Might be something that makes him less valuable or it might make him more valuable but I'm sure you've missed something, it's only human.
 
DragonFromTo said:
You really want to open up that phony door for everyone that you argue with? There are certainly a lot of great Braves with postseason records that are far from great to throw right back at you.

I would add too that if you didn't know that detail about Mays think about what you also might have missed here with Harper. Might be something that makes him less valuable or it might make him more valuable but I'm sure you've missed something, it's only human.
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Harper has been public enemy number one in Atlanta since his rookie year(well, at least until the Marlins started beaning Acuna), I pay pretty close attention to him. Willie Mays retired 18 years before I was born(my parents were 18 when I was born, so even they never saw Willie play).

Maybe my line of thinking is outdated, but to me, if the MVP comes from a non playoff team, he better be head and shoulders the best player in the league that season, that's just not the case, Soto was the best player in the NL, Crawford, Goldschmidt and Crawford were critical components to playoff teams.
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
Harper has been public enemy number one in Atlanta since his rookie year(well, at least until the Marlins started beaning Acuna), I pay pretty close attention to him. Willie Mays retired 18 years before I was born(my parents were 18 when I was born, so even they never saw Willie play).

Maybe my line of thinking is outdated, but to me, if the MVP comes from a non playoff team, he better be head and shoulders the best player in the league that season, that's just not the case, Soto was the best player in the NL, Crawford, Goldschmidt and Crawford were critical components to playoff teams.
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I didn't see Willie play either, I just knew something that you didn't.

And I can't believe that you seem to be arguing with my "you are a human and a human can't do what you're trying to do in your head" statement.

Do you actually watch Phillies' (and Nats before them) road games to watch Harper's at bats and see them in context? If so you might be a little too invested in this argument :wink:
 
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DragonFromTo said:
I didn't see Willie play either, I just knew something that you didn't.

And I can't believe that you seem to be arguing with my "you are a human and a human can't do what you're trying to do in your head" statement.
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I'm an idiot, you probably know a lot of things I don't know.
 
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