The 10 = 20 NBA Surprise Partner Draft SF2 : UK/Nos vs Ducey/Stakes

[Nosferatu]

It's pretty clear you have a bias for the older generation whereas I skew younger. I have no issues with acknowledging that.


That's not entirely true, I just have a problem with you showing absolutely no respect for players from the past in every sport. I know athletes are simply better than they were in the past, the difference is you think it's just because they are better and don't realize the advantages players today have.

Look at football, there are players from the 60's & 70's that would literally die on the field if they played today, thankfully they didn't die because they wouldn't have been able to work at the grocery store in the off season. In today's NFL you have body builders running a 4.4 that's insane, but just to blindly say none of the best athletes from the past could have worked out and done the things players have done today is simply ridiculous.

 

[Nosferatu]

This is more reflective of you not being able to take criticism man. And it stifles conversation. Which is what the whole damn point of this is. Sports is fun to discuss. You're melting down over one comment.

One comment? You've been a whiny bitch since day one. I take criticism just fine if I respect your opinion, being I disliked you almost immediately when you joined the drafts it's unlikely I will sit by and let you tell me my opinions are wrong without saying something about it.

Also, why do I have to take criticism? Does anyone else here really have to take criticism? Can you go back and look at the last few years you've been with us and find where I attacked or criticized you without you first taking a shot at me or my opinion? You won't find a single example.


None of this happens if you don't post this...

"I got UK/Nos in this one as Nos didn't draft a single guy from the last 30 years. so as we often state in the nba boards the skill and talent in the nba has depreciated."

It's these disrespectful little shots that you mix in like a kid who didn't get a trophy that have lead to me not respecting you.

 

[stakesarehigh]

One comment? You've been a whiny bitch since day one. I take criticism just fine if I respect your opinion, being I disliked you almost immediately when you joined the drafts it's unlikely I will sit by and let you tell me my opinions are wrong without saying something about it.

Also, why do I have to take criticism? Does anyone else here really have to take criticism? Can you go back and look at the last few years you've been with us and find where I attacked or criticized you without you first taking a shot at me or my opinion? You won't find a single example.


None of this happens if you don't post this...

"I got UK/Nos in this one as Nos didn't draft a single guy from the last 30 years. so as we often state in the nba boards the skill and talent in the nba has depreciated."

It's these disrespectful little shots that you mix in like a kid who didn't get a trophy that have lead to me not respecting you.

You're absolutely allowed to discuss why you think my opinions are wrong. That's the point of discussing sports.

You don't respect me because I have no issues calling out what i see. I manage people for a living. It's literally what I do. Tell people shit they don't want to hear.

You don't want to hear that you want your personal biases to be shared amongst the group rather than just allowing everyone to have their own opinions. This is the absolute biggest thing that is stifling voting and stifling conversations.

Many who have been here long enough learns to follow your lead and opinion in order to win rather than truly drafting what their thoughts are.

Milk just made an off hand joke about it but he's being truthful when he says it. It's an echo chamber in the absolute sense.


And I say all this to say I absolutely respect the time, effort, and energy you put into these drafts.

But that's the truth man. Im just telling you to your face what several (at least) haven't told you.

 

[stakesarehigh]

It's pretty clear you have a bias for the older generation whereas I skew younger. I have no issues with acknowledging that.


That's not entirely true, I just have a problem with you showing absolutely no respect for players from the past in every sport. I know athletes are simply better than they were in the past, the difference is you think it's just because they are better and don't realize the advantages players today have.

Look at football, there are players from the 60's & 70's that would literally die on the field if they played today, thankfully they didn't die because they wouldn't have been able to work at the grocery store in the off season. In today's NFL you have body builders running a 4.4 that's insane, but just to blindly say none of the best athletes from the past could have worked out and done the things players have done today is simply ridiculous.

That's a fair point and I think you will see I am much more willing to go older generation in baseball and football. Especially baseball because the game hasn't changed much and hitting a baseball is a skill that is not entirely defined by athleticism as an example.

I find it easier to fit the older generation football players in then hoops. Sushi pointed out why.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Didn't read everything in this thread and too tired to go back.....voting needs to be changed and yes, I wouldn't be opposed to letting outsiders in to help in the voting process. Different opinions is what made this voting fun....same shit, different day. I think everyone can agree with that, all of us are stuck in our ways of what players, schemes, type of players, etc. we have bias towards.

This is how I would do it and not sure if it would work bc some people (the outsiders) might not give a two shits about the voting but it's not like anyone on this board cares that much anymore so no biggie....

If we have a 10 people participating in a draft:

No vote for people in matchup, but they can give their opinions/why they win

8 voters-mock group, 5 random voters. So in a 10 person draft---7 votes wins. *Random voters can be more or less just an example----we can start slow with 2 or something*

These random voters can be different every mock draft or once we get comfortable we can set the same voters every time.


Like I said, who knows who will take the time to vote but it's not like any of us put a ton into the voting process anymore so it's worth the shot.

 

[UK Cowboy]

About the same since they cannot iso Kareem

Man just stop lol

 

[stakesarehigh]

Man just stop lol

Did you not see the part where I said no one can guard him?

But yeah I think this string has about ran its course.

 

[Nosferatu]

You're absolutely allowed to discuss why you think my opinions are wrong. That's the point of discussing sports.

You don't respect me because I have no issues calling out what i see. I manage people for a living. It's literally what I do. Tell people shit they don't want to hear.

You don't want to hear that you want your personal biases to be shared amongst the group rather than just allowing everyone to have their own opinions. This is the absolute biggest thing that is stifling voting and stifling conversations.

Many who have been here long enough learns to follow your lead and opinion in order to win rather than truly drafting what their thoughts are.

Milk just made an off hand joke about it but he's being truthful when he says it. It's an echo chamber in the absolute sense.


And I say all this to say I absolutely respect the time, effort, and energy you put into these drafts.

But that's the truth man. Im just telling you to your face what several (at least) haven't told you.

I don't need to discuss why your opinions are wrong, I don't care what your opinions are.

I don't respect you because you've never given me reason to. Who cares what you do for a living, it's not relevant as I don't see you as an authority figure and i'm not going to assume you're good at your job, if you're like you are here at work it's likely most don't like or respect you there either.

I am but one person, you give me much more credit than I deserve, John Elway was just the QB of the team that won the last NFL Championship, and I voted for him.

I would like you to share with us a time since you started drafting with us that I have attacked someone for thinking differently than me, I mean you should be able to find many examples if you aren't just simply talking out of your ass.

The only people I have had issues with the last three years are you and Hall, you're both just unlikable people to me and it has nothing to do with the drafts but that's okay, I have not and never will boot either one of you from the drafts? I like differing opinions as much as you'd like to think I don't it's why I have always said we need new people.

I believe I am going to stop drafting, moving forward I will just run the drafts that way you can all draft the players you want to draft not the players I want you to draft. Make the drafts great again! Yay

 

[Nosferatu]

I am much more willing to go older generation in baseball

Just wanted to point out this is a lie, baseball is the first sport you cried about how players from the past sucked.

 

[Pack 500]

Yeah, I don't have a lot of respect for their point of view. I totally understand the game has changed, but the guy we were debating wasn't Bob Pettit or Bill Russell, it was Shaq. Even today, there is no one even remotely close physically to a young Shaq. With today's rules, where you can't even put an elbow in a guys back to defend, where any hard foul at the rim is a flagrant, anyone who thinks Shaq wouldn't be just as dominant is past basketball ignorant IMO. I understand 3's vs 2's...but most good 3 point shooter are 40%, most of Shaq's shots today would be 100% dunks. But not just Shaq. Kevin McHale isn't a physical phenom..put him in todays game and he couldn't be defended. And don't tell me about modern defensive schemes...No matter what defense you are in, Shaq would demand a double(or triple) team or its a dunk. Once that happens and he passes it out, those 40% contested 3's for his team become 60% wide open 3's. I'll debate a lot of things with an open mind, but Shaq vs today's players and rules isn't one of them

Offensively you’re correct but Shaq would have no chance on defense in today’s league. Pick and roll him to death and have to guard the 3 point line he would be screwed

 

[UK Cowboy]

Offensively you’re correct but Shaq would have no chance on defense in today’s league. Pick and roll him to death and have to guard the 3 point line he would be screwed

Respectfully disagree Bro, as I know that you know the game. They had plenty of pick and roll back in the day. And to suggest he would be any worse defensively than most of the guys today is laughable. Did you watch "The King" play D last year.

 

[stakesarehigh]

Offensively you’re correct but Shaq would have no chance on defense in today’s league. Pick and roll him to death and have to guard the 3 point line he would be screwed

That's funny because that's exactly what was said lol

 

[Pack 500]

Respectfully disagree Bro, as I know that you know the game. They had plenty of pick and roll back in the day. And to suggest he would be any worse defensively than most of the guys today is laughable. Did you watch "The King" play D last year.

Lebron is 36 so I would hope his defense is slipping haha. There’s nobody playing at 325 pounds in the NBA now for a reason. Would Shaq have slimmed down if he played today? I’m sure he would and he would be great but I’m just talking about how he was at that weight. He never had to guard the 3 point line and the pick and roll now would nearly be every possession which it wasn’t then.

 

[stakesarehigh]

I don't need to discuss why your opinions are wrong, I don't care what your opinions are.

I don't respect you because you've never given me reason to. Who cares what you do for a living, it's not relevant as I don't see you as an authority figure and i'm not going to assume you're good at your job, if you're like you are here at work it's likely most don't like or respect you there either.

I am but one person, you give me much more credit than I deserve, John Elway was just the QB of the team that won the last NFL Championship, and I voted for him.

I would like you to share with us a time since you started drafting with us that I have attacked someone for thinking differently than me, I mean you should be able to find many examples if you aren't just simply talking out of your ass.

The only people I have had issues with the last three years are you and Hall, you're both just unlikable people to me and it has nothing to do with the drafts but that's okay, I have not and never will boot either one of you from the drafts? I like differing opinions as much as you'd like to think I don't it's why I have always said we need new people.

I believe I am going to stop drafting, moving forward I will just run the drafts that way you can all draft the players you want to draft not the players I want you to draft. Make the drafts great again! Yay

I actually prefer you giving me shit as you are now as opposed to me getting the passive aggressive treatment. It's water over a duck's back man.

I've said before the first year I drafted with you guys I had other things I was more aggravated with.

Just wanted to point out this is a lie, baseball is the first sport you cried about how players from the past sucked.

Dead ball era for pitchers yes.

UK used Mantle as an example. Basically anything in the all star era forward is good by me and most of our usual hitters pre that date are good by me.

 

[citysushi]

Respectfully disagree Bro, as I know that you know the game. They had plenty of pick and roll back in the day. And to suggest he would be any worse defensively than most of the guys today is laughable. Did you watch "The King" play D last year.

Shaq wouldn't be able to guard in today's pick and roll. He would get attacked every play. Shaq was athletic, but he doesn't have the lateral quickness to guard out to the three point line. And they wouldn't just attack Shaq because they think he's a defensive liability, but it would also be to tire him out. Shaq was a guy who was notorious for being out of shape a lot of times, which is why he and Kobe clashed a lot because Kobe called him out on it.

Shaq wouldn't be able to guard the perimeter any more than a current modern day center being able to guard him either.

 

[citysushi]

I don't need to discuss why your opinions are wrong, I don't care what your opinions are.

I don't respect you because you've never given me reason to. Who cares what you do for a living, it's not relevant as I don't see you as an authority figure and i'm not going to assume you're good at your job, if you're like you are here at work it's likely most don't like or respect you there either.

I am but one person, you give me much more credit than I deserve, John Elway was just the QB of the team that won the last NFL Championship, and I voted for him.

I would like you to share with us a time since you started drafting with us that I have attacked someone for thinking differently than me, I mean you should be able to find many examples if you aren't just simply talking out of your ass.

The only people I have had issues with the last three years are you and Hall, you're both just unlikable people to me and it has nothing to do with the drafts but that's okay, I have not and never will boot either one of you from the drafts? I like differing opinions as much as you'd like to think I don't it's why I have always said we need new people.

I believe I am going to stop drafting, moving forward I will just run the drafts that way you can all draft the players you want to draft not the players I want you to draft. Make the drafts great again! Yay

@Nosferatu Don't do the take your ball and go home thing. Keep drafting. Arguments/disagreements are part of the fun. This is the most action this board has seen in weeks. Discussion, disagreement are fine as long as things don't get personal. If we all thought the same this wouldn't be any fun.

@stakesarehigh I think you give everyone around here a little too little credit for being able to think for themselves. That's what I'm taking away from what you're saying. You thinking anyone here is pandering to one person in particular it's pretty insulting. If you're going to call people out do it all the way and don't just blanket statement like people are secretly on your side.

You're absolutely allowed to discuss why you think my opinions are wrong. That's the point of discussing sports.

You don't respect me because I have no issues calling out what i see. I manage people for a living. It's literally what I do. Tell people shit they don't want to hear.

You don't want to hear that you want your personal biases to be shared amongst the group rather than just allowing everyone to have their own opinions. This is the absolute biggest thing that is stifling voting and stifling conversations.

Many who have been here long enough learns to follow your lead and opinion in order to win rather than truly drafting what their thoughts are.

Milk just made an off hand joke about it but he's being truthful when he says it. It's an echo chamber in the absolute sense.


And I say all this to say I absolutely respect the time, effort, and energy you put into these drafts.

But that's the truth man. Im just telling you to your face what several (at least) haven't told you.

honestly think you’re a bit out of line here. If you think people are only drafting players to pander to one person you’re pretty much insulting everyone on here. You’re basically just saying we’re all doing this for no other reason than for us to get approval on some level.

people can disagree around here and it’s fine as long as the discourse doesn’t get personal. You’re the one that’s making it personal and not just as Nos but you’re basically calling everyone on here sheep.

I do value Nos input on players but I don’t take it as gospel. I ultimately draft who I want and why I want. I take Smoltz on here more than anyone else, probably same with Walt Bellamy. I could have drafted Buck Williams this draft but I went with Mel Daniels instead. I’ve taken Elway just about as many times as Femur has.

so calling him a bully is not only insulting to him, but it’s insulting to every drafter here in thinking we can be bullied in to a fake online draft that ultimate provides nothing of value. We all do this because it’s entertaining and a nice distraction. Let’s keep it at that.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Lebron is 36 so I would hope his defense is slipping haha. There’s nobody playing at 325 pounds in the NBA now for a reason. Would Shaq have slimmed down if he played today? I’m sure he would and he would be great but I’m just talking about how he was at that weight. He never had to guard the 3 point line and the pick and roll now would nearly be every possession which it wasn’t then.

If we aren't talking about a 36 year old LBJ then let's not talk about a 36 year old Shaq. Check out the 295-300 pound version when he came into the league and watch him run the floor

 

[stakesarehigh]

@Nosferatu Don't do the take your ball and go home thing. Keep drafting. Arguments/disagreements are part of the fun. This is the most action this board has seen in weeks. Discussion, disagreement are fine as long as things don't get personal. If we all thought the same this wouldn't be any fun.

@stakesarehigh I think you give everyone around here a little too little credit for being able to think for themselves. That's what I'm taking away from what you're saying. You thinking anyone here is pandering to one person in particular it's pretty insulting. If you're going to call people out do it all the way and don't just blanket statement like people are secretly on your side.

honestly think you’re a bit out of line here. If you think people are only drafting players to pander to one person you’re pretty much insulting everyone on here. You’re basically just saying we’re all doing this for no other reason than for us to get approval on some level.

people can disagree around here and it’s fine as long as the discourse doesn’t get personal. You’re the one that’s making it personal and not just as Nos but you’re basically calling everyone on here sheep.

I do value Nos input on players but I don’t take it as gospel. I ultimately draft who I want and why I want. I take Smoltz on here more than anyone else, probably same with Walt Bellamy. I could have drafted Buck Williams this draft but I went with Mel Daniels instead. I’ve taken Elway just about as many times as Femur has.

so calling him a bully is not only insulting to him, but it’s insulting to every drafter here in thinking we can be bullied in to a fake online draft that ultimate provides nothing of value. We all do this because it’s entertaining and a nice distraction. Let’s keep it at that.

Well for starters I very much value your opinion on sports. I find myself agreeing with your takes far more than not.

I don't recall ever calling nos a bully or any name for that matter. Probably a dick at some point. Not today tho.

What I was saying was that it becomes somewhat of a endless cycle of people who commonly drafting with one another falling into a cycle of...I don't know man...it's extremely predictable. The idea is to stimulate differing opinions and even disagreement such as this and be able to walk away from it and find another topic and be able to agree.

I do 100 percent think the NFL has become a lot of group think. Thats my opinion. Like I said I myself have abandoned how i would normally draft in favor of what I think will win. That's more what I'm saying. People gearing their picks towards what they think will win rather than what they really would want. So you're still making a decision but it's with that knowledge in mind.

I would never speak for someone else. That's their right to speak up or not. I don't care either way.

 

[stakesarehigh]

And if anyone was to stop drafting it should be me. This is Nos's group first and foremost. I've started dialing back more because of work but also because it does all become a little repetitive. I enjoy the concept and drafting with you all however which is why I've carried on with it.