TOP 25... Overrated & Underrated

[ralphiewvu]

So, I took a few publications and popular websites and combined all the rankings to create this Preseason Top 25. Anybody extremely overrated/extremely underrated? Or just by a little. Who, not listed, should be? I know all the "precautions" related to preseason rankings, but just something to discuss for the upcoming season. What ya got?

1. Georgia
2. Michigan
3. Ohio State
4. Alabama
5. Penn State
6. Southern Cal
7. LSU
8. Florida State
9. Clemson
10. Washington
11. Notre Dame
12. Texas
13. Tennessee
14. Oregon
15. Utah
16. Wisconsin
17. Oregon State
18. Kansas State
19. Oklahoma
20. TCU
21. UCLA
22. Texas A&M
23. Ole Miss
24. North Carolina
25. South Carolina

Overrated:Texas
Underrated:Oregon State

Shootout to my buddy @Across The Field
it‘s absolutely a joy to see you have changed nothing with your tribalism defense of anything Ohio State. Great to see buddy!

 

[ojb81]

i can promise you...

Nebraska will be ranked at some point this season

 

[Across The Field]

It's not a lot, but 13% of their scholarship players were from MD/DC between 2020 and 2023. As a secondary pipeline that's pretty significant. PSU got commitments from 59 players bordering the state of PA, which includes VA between 2019 and 2023. That's a ton of players. ND only got commitments from 19 such players that border IN. I'd agree that Ohio has been better for ND than PSU, but that's because it has to be. PSU has PA, and the DMV right there. There's just more players closer to PSU than ND.

And yeah, ND has recruited slightly better since BK was there, but not because it has been easier. You could legit recruit PA kids only and if you landed the top 20-25 kids in the state you'd have a top 15 class most years

Freeman seems to not be having any issues in 2024 either, though. I don't think PSU was beating up on ND in recruiting before BK either. Again, hiring crappy coaches and then finally hiring an objectively better one doesn't make that coach amazing.

Also to act like landing the top 20-25 kids is possible? Come on. If you did that in 2024 you'd have a bad class also. No 5*, only three 4*.

 

[Across The Field]

Overrated:Texas
Underrated:Oregon State

Shootout to my buddy @Across The Field
it‘s absolutely a joy to see you have changed nothing with your tribalism defense of anything Ohio State. Great to see buddy!

Ah yes, the age old antics of OSU fans defending PSU and USC head coaches over a former ND and current LSU coach. A tale as old as time.

 

[ericd7633]

Freeman seems to not be having any issues in 2024 either, though. I don't think PSU was beating up on ND in recruiting before BK either. Again, hiring crappy coaches and then finally hiring an objectively better one doesn't make that coach amazing.

Also to act like landing the top 20-25 kids is possible? Come on. If you did that in 2024 you'd have a bad class also. No 5*, only three 4*.

Yeah, Freeman is doing good(about what BK did), but not because it's been easier. 18 of the kids signed in 2023 aren't bordering Indiana. 15 of the 22 in 2024 aren't bordering Indiana.

And yes, 2024 is admittedly a bad cycle for PA high school recruiting. But 2022 had a 5* and 11 4*. 2021 had a 5* and 13 4*. 2018 had a 5* and 8 4*. My point, is that PA produces a lot more talent than IN. As do the surrounding states of PA, which makes it easier for PSU. It doesn't mean PSU will finish with a higher ranking, just that it's easier. I don't think it's a surprise that when PSU has their top classes, it typically coincides with it being a good year for HS recruits in PA.

I'm not arguing which program recruits better, just that it's easier for PSU.

 

[Across The Field]

Yeah, Freeman is doing good(about what BK did), but not because it's been easier. 18 of the kids signed in 2023 aren't bordering Indiana. 15 of the 22 in 2024 aren't bordering Indiana.

And yes, 2024 is admittedly a bad cycle for PA high school recruiting. But 2022 had a 5* and 11 4*. 2021 had a 5* and 13 4*. 2018 had a 5* and 8 4*. My point, is that PA produces a lot more talent than IN. As do the surrounding states of PA, which makes it easier for PSU. It doesn't mean PSU will finish with a higher ranking, just that it's easier. I don't think it's a surprise that when PSU has their top classes, it typically coincides with it being a good year for HS recruits in PA.

I'm not arguing which program recruits better, just that it's easier for PSU.

Even if that's the case, BK came into a situation where all he had to do was just improve over the parade of losers ND trotted through the previous decade. He still had all the resources and tradition and all that. Franklin came into an absolute shitstorm. Look at those recruiting classes from like 2011-2015 and the junk he had to work with while also dealing with Urban, Harbaugh, and Dantonio each and every year to go with usually 1-2 ranked West teams on a crossover. They had one class ranked top 20 during that timeframe and he won the conference by 2016. I think that negates whatever tiny recruiting "advantage" PSU may or may not have.

 

[ericd7633]

Even if that's the case, BK came into a situation where all he had to do was just improve over the parade of losers ND trotted through the previous decade. He still had all the resources and tradition and all that. Franklin came into an absolute shitstorm. Look at those recruiting classes from like 2011-2015 and the junk he had to work with while also dealing with Urban, Harbaugh, and Dantonio each and every year to go with usually 1-2 ranked West teams on a crossover. They had one class ranked top 20 during that timeframe and he won the conference by 2016. I think that negates whatever tiny recruiting "advantage" PSU may or may not have.

Yeah, the 11-14 classes were obviously not great. There was a lot going on at that time, and it a lot of coaching uncertainty. That wasn't a great time to recruit to PSU. But the sanctions were lifted after a year, and they were back to being able to go to bowl games with no scholarship reductions. As far as proximity to players, PSU had a sizeable advantage, which makes it easier. They don't recruit nationally(partially because they don't really have too, but I think its tougher to as well for them).

 

[Across The Field]

Yeah, the 11-14 classes were obviously not great. There was a lot going on at that time, and it a lot of coaching uncertainty. That wasn't a great time to recruit to PSU. But the sanctions were lifted after a year, and they were back to being able to go to bowl games with no scholarship reductions. As far as proximity to players, PSU had a sizeable advantage, which makes it easier. They don't recruit nationally(partially because they don't really have too, but I think its tougher to as well for them).

You're also forgetting about the ace up their sleeve ND has that PSU, OSU, and most others don't - God. There's a reason they've cleaned up in the Catholic/private schools east of the Mississippi through the years. Hell, it's the reason you guys got KVA this weekend.

 

[ericd7633]

You're also forgetting about the ace up their sleeve ND has that PSU, OSU, and most others don't - God. There's a reason they've cleaned up in the Catholic/private schools east of the Mississippi through the years. Hell, it's the reason you guys got KVA this weekend.

I haven't forgotten about that, it helps. But if you gave me the choice, I'd take proximity of recruit over that.

 

[Across The Field]

I haven't forgotten about that, it helps. But if you gave me the choice, I'd take proximity of recruit over that.

Well anyhow, to circle back up out of this rabbit hole, I still would take either Franklin or Riley right now over BK. Had BK even shown the capacity to be slightly competitive against elite competition, I'd give him the nod, but outside of the OT win over Clemson with Trevor out, did he beat a top 10 team in his final decade at ND?

 

[ericd7633]

Well anyhow, to circle back up out of this rabbit hole, I still would take either Franklin or Riley right now over BK. Had BK even shown the capacity to be slightly competitive against elite competition, I'd give him the nod, but outside of the OT win over Clemson with Trevor out, did he beat a top 10 team in his final decade at ND?

2012 Stanford, 2013 Michigan State, 2017 USC(coaches poll), 2020 Clemson. I'd be curious if Riley and Franklin have more than 4? Franklin might because he's won some NY6 games.

 

[Across The Field]

2012 Stanford, 2013 Michigan State, 2017 USC(coaches poll), 2020 Clemson. I'd be curious if Riley and Franklin have more than 4? Franklin might because he's won some NY6 games.

Ah, 2012 Stanford just making the cut. The Sparty win was definitely the best win he had. If you wanna count USC even though it wasn't a unanimous top 10 that's fine (that team was ass if we're being honest). Franklin has 3 top 10 wins, but BK also started at ND 4 years before Franklin went to Penn State. I'm sure Franklin will tack on at least a couple more over the next few years. Not sure what Riley's overall record vs. the top 10 is but I know in his second game as HC they came into Columbus and beat top-10 OSU. He is also 18-9 in his career against ranked teams, definitely a better record vs. ranked teams than BK.

 

[ericd7633]

Ah, 2012 Stanford just making the cut. The Sparty win was definitely the best win he had. If you wanna count USC even though it wasn't a unanimous top 10 that's fine (that team was ass if we're being honest). Franklin has 3 top 10 wins, but BK also started at ND 4 years before Franklin went to Penn State. I'm sure Franklin will tack on at least a couple more over the next few years. Not sure what Riley's overall record vs. the top 10 is but I know in his second game as HC they came into Columbus and beat top-10 OSU. He is also 18-9 in his career against ranked teams, definitely a better record vs. ranked teams than BK.

All 3 are good HC's. Riley came into a great situation. His best team was his first team at OU, so it'll be interesting to see if he can get a team like that on his own. They kind of regressed under him(although the bar was set really high)

 

[ralphiewvu]

Ah yes, the age old antics of OSU fans defending PSU and USC head coaches over a former ND and current LSU coach. A tale as old as time.

Bro you are literally trying to say Ohio State lost the game, Michigan didn’t win it Last year, absolve an former Buckeye QB for losses on the bears and defending a current B1G coach and future B1G coach over an LSU coach. As I said, the tribalism is still there and it’s a thing of beauty.

 

[Across The Field]

Bro you are literally trying to say Ohio State lost the game, Michigan didn’t win it Last year, absolve an former Buckeye QB for losses on the bears and defending a current B1G coach and future B1G coach over an LSU coach. As I said, the tribalism is still there and it’s a thing of beauty.

Objectively speaking, everything I've said is correct. If you have a coherent argument, by all means, be my guest.

I did get a chuckle about the "future B1G coach" thing. If we're being real, BK has a way better shot at joining the B1G lol

 

[ralphiewvu]

Objectively speaking, everything I've said is correct. If you have a coherent argument, by all means, be my guest.

I did get a chuckle about the "future B1G coach" thing. If we're being real, BK has a way better shot at joining the B1G lol

Not giving Michigan an ounce of credit for kicking your ass isnt being correct. Absolving Fields of any wrong doing in Bear losses isn’t correct.

Your last sentence leads me to believe you don’t know USC is joining the B1G. Do you not know or are you pretending to not know? Ether way it’s not correct.

But it’s great to see you are BACK!!! Never change buddy

 

[Across The Field]

Not giving Michigan an ounce of credit for kicking your ass isnt being correct. Absolving Fields of any wrong doing in Bear losses isn’t correct.

Your last sentence leads me to believe you don’t know USC is joining the B1G. Do you not know or are you pretending to not know? Ether way it’s not correct.

But it’s great to see you are BACK!!! Never change buddy

I gave michigan credit for 2021, and tons of it. That's enough. Fields was leading his offense to a scoring output that would've ranked top 5-7 in the NFL over the stretch we were discussing, yet the team went 1-6. Are you saying it's his fault they got rid of their only good defensive players and they were last in the league in scoring defense and 4th to last in total defense?

I did totally forget for a second that USC is joining the B1G next year, I took it as Riley was going to take a job with a current B1G team. My bad there. That said, you're lacking/ignoring proper context on that conversation.

 

[ralphiewvu]

I gave michigan credit for 2021, and tons of it. That's enough. Fields was leading his offense to a scoring output that would've ranked top 5-7 in the NFL over the stretch we were discussing, yet the team went 1-6. Are you saying it's his fault they got rid of their only good defensive players and they were last in the league in scoring defense and 4th to last in total defense?

I did totally forget for a second that USC is joining the B1G next year, I took it as Riley was going to take a job with a current B1G team. My bad there. That said, you're lacking/ignoring proper context on that conversation.

You gave ZERO CREDIT to Michigan for beating Ohio State by 20. LOL

You want to ignore Fields having a QBR rating of 54.0 last year. LOL

You want to say I was lacking/ignoring proper context when you were the mistaken one about Riley/USC. LOL

Never change buddy. It would be criminal too at this point.

Do you have an overrated team (besides Michigan) on this list?

 

[Across The Field]

You gave ZERO CREDIT to Michigan for beating Ohio State by 20. LOL

You want to ignore Fields having a QBR rating of 54.0 last year. LOL

You want to say I was lacking/ignoring proper context when you were the mistaken one about Riley/USC. LOL

Never change buddy. It would be criminal too at this point.

Do you have an overrated team (besides Michigan) on this list?

I'll give them credit for taking advantage of us repeatedly shooting ourselves in the foot. Very different from 2021 when they imposed their will all game and had control from start to finish. Two very different games.

Ah yes, the QBR always tells the entire tale lol. He was the entire offense. There were 10 teams that averaged fewer PPG than Chicago and all of them had better records, but you're being objective in saying it was all his fault?

Yes, that means nothing in regards to the actual conversation. Forgetting about USC coming to the B1G next year means nothing in regards to comparing 3 HCs.

Like I said, if you have an actual argument be my guest.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Objectively speaking, everything I've said is correct. If you have a coherent argument, by all means, be my guest.

I gave michigan credit for 2021, and tons of it. That's enough.

Other than the fact, Michigan went on the road in 2022 and did EXACTLY the same thing they did in 2021, but yeah, you are being objective.

Maybe that was the Ohio State strategy in 2022. After UM bullied them all over the field in 2021, they decide to stack the box. Michigan passes all over them, it is now called self inflicted. The OL wears OSU down and break big runs in the 2nd half, against self inflicted. More yards and more points for Michigan in 2022 -- all self inflicted by Ohio State.

When Michigan does it again this year, as they return everyone essentially on offense, including having 1st team all-american Blake Corum back -- will it be self inflicted again?