Who is winning a natty on a platter on Signing Day?

From the Daily Oklahoman:

How two of college football's biggest brands, OU & Ohio State, take unique approach to NIL​

Scooby Axson
USA TODAY

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During a college football game between Oklahoma and SMU in December 1985, ABC broadcaster Jim Lampley broke the news that star Indiana basketball guard and Olympic gold medalist Steve Alford had been suspended by the NCAA for one game against Kentucky after violating rules by posing in a Gamma Phi Beta sorority calendar.
The proceeds from calendar sales weren’t going to Alford’s pockets but went to a sorority foundation in support of girls camps. That didn't sway the NCAA in its ruling.
The response from legendary announcer Keith Jackson after Lampley's report made clear his feelings about the NCAA and the Alford case.
"That’s ridiculous," Jackson said. "That’s one of the problems they got. Ticky-tack everywhere you turn."
Forty years later, the organization that is the face and enforcement arm of college athletics is still trying to regulate what athletes can do with their name, image and likeness amid an environment where a multitude of state laws and lack of federal legislation has forced schools to navigate the murky waters of name, image and likeness, a term that was virtually unspoken 20 years ago.
USA TODAY Sports examined how two schools with some of the biggest brands in college football, Oklahoma and Ohio State, have taken a unique approach to handling the newest complex issues around compensation for college athletes.
More:Why Jovantae Barnes' lead role in OU's Cheez-It Bowl game is a 'dream come true'
OU head coach Brent Venables leads his team onto the field before facing Kansas on Oct. 15 in Norman.


Role of collectives​

The newest catchword in college athletics is collectives, and depending on who you talk to collectives is nothing but a fancy word for booster and other parties that pool money in an effort to provide NIL compensation to players.
Boosters have been around for decades but are now playing a prominent role in seeing that athletes are compensated for generating the billions of dollars they do for institutions.
Oklahoma and Ohio State use collectives to make sure, whether you are a star player or a benchwarmer, that being part of a team means visibility for all. That involves getting the public, not just the wealthy boosters, involved in their efforts.
One of Ohio State’s collectives is called the Columbus NIL Club, which gives fans a chance to ‘financially support Ohio State student-athletes and join the ultimate fan experience and touts itself as an "athlete-led fan community."
The Crimson and Cream collective at Oklahoma is fan driven, allowing for subscription-based donation service to support student-athletes, where money is equally distributed among members of a specific team.
Charlie Grantham, director and associate professor for the Center of Sport Management at Seton Hall University, said while the schools are doing a service by helping the athlete earn compensation, they could do more and it's under the guise of an inducement to play for their programs.
"What they are trying to do is using the name, image and likeness as an advantage to matriculate to their program," Grantham said. "The biggest thing they don't understand is that this was a strategic move and they had to give the athletes something because their backs are against the wall."
More:Who has the Big 12's top football recruiting class for 2023? OU, Texas take familiar perch
Oklahoma's Rodney Anderson, right, runs past Florida Atlantic's Steven Leggett during a game in Norman on Sept. 1, 2018. [Bryan Terry/The Oklahoman archives]


The business of NIL​

The NIL activities in athletic programs can be broken down into two factions: internal, where the school exclusively contracts with any potential business entity, and external, where an outside source of funding and the student-athlete work together on deals.
There are two university employees in the country whose job title it is to deal with NIL exclusively. One of them is former Oklahoma running back Rodney Anderson.
Anderson was drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals in the sixth round of the 2019 NFL draft despite tearing his ACL during his senior season with the Sooners. The Bengals waived Anderson in August 2020.
"I was a little bit lost. I really didn't know what my path was going to be just because everybody tells you athletes have that backup plan," the 26-year-old Anderson told USA TODAY Sports.
After leaning on connections from his college days, he ended up with Sooners Sports Properties, a joint venture of Learfield, the school’s multimedia rightsholder.
Anderson is the manager of Oklahoma's NIL business development and operations.
"I think one of the biggest misconceptions about the student-athlete is that they are being paid and monetizing based on their reputation. Is it pay for play? And it's not based on performance, or based on minutes played, points scored, but it is based on their reputation," said Toby Baldwin, Oklahoma's executive associate athletic director for name, image, and likeness and operational advancement. "That's why you see more focus on a Power Five school, a top 25 school, because we have a bigger brand."
More:How big was 'foundational player' Jackson Arnold's role in building OU's recruiting class?




Baldwin says part of the job is twofold: Making sure that athletes who are sometimes receiving potentially generational wealth are prepared and getting resources, and people to help them understand things like taxation and financial planning.
"Staying up to date on the latest laws and educating businesses, as well as know what they can and can't do, you know how it works, dealing with an athlete, what that process looks like and then making sure that our partners know so that our student-athletes are protected," Anderson said.
While solicitations from every brand imaginable hit their inbox, Oklahoma steers away from doing deals that are bad for business, including pornography, alcohol, marijuana and gambling.
"Just use your better judgment," Anderson says with a laugh when describing questionable deals. "I feel like our model is sustainable. I feel like what we're doing is safe for the athletes and we're focusing more on their brand rather than just the cash that is thrown at them. In the end, everybody wins.”
How deals are funneled through the university is a fairly simple process.
Most of the NIL deals involve use of the school’s name or logo. If a company wants use of that intellectual property, Learfield and Anderson get involved, hence the internal part of NIL.
If an athlete and a company are not using the property and doing a private, or external deal, as long as it meets with the standards set by the university, the consummated contract is simply uploaded online. The compliance office approves that contract and is responsible for ensuring that the athlete is doing services in return for promoting a product.
More:National Signing Day tracker: OU football recruits, announcements, 2023 class ranking




The education of NIL​

Every school governs how and when deals with potential boosters, collectives and student-athletes get done, especially when it comes to the use of team specific logos, equipment and slogans. Protection of brands at each school is paramount, so as not to create an illusion that the school is endorsing a product that might not fit with its values and ideals.
"A lot of the brands, when they decide they want to do an initial deal, they want to move quickly," Ohio State senior associate athletics director Carey Hoyt said. “So, it's a lot of coordination and a lot of different units kind of having to pitch in to make it work."
Hoyt coached Ohio State's women’s gymnastics team for 13 years before joining the administrative side five years ago. She has additional responsibilities in sport administration and student-athlete development. That includes more than 1,000 student-athletes, 400 of them with at least one NIL deal. Over 1,200 deals were consummated during the 2021-2022 academic year alone, with football, women's ice hockey and women’s volleyball leading the way.
And because the athletic department is so visible — especially the football program which has ranked consistently in the top 10 in the past decade — deals that student-athletes bring to the administration receive extra scrutiny.
At Ohio State, meetings with lawyers and compliance are a weekly occurrence. The group reviews any new issues that come up and looks at every deal in terms of philosophy. If there is one question concerning a wrong perception, that potential deal won’t make it past that meeting, regardless of how big the company is.
"It’s been super interesting and very challenging at times," Hoyt said. "Trademark and licensing has felt the burden, just monitoring the use of our logo, compliance played a major role in deals."
More:'Turn me into a monster': Inside Ashton Sanders' unique path as OU football recruit
Ohio State quarterback C.J. Stroud (7) gets set to run a play during his team's 2021 game against Michigan at Michigan Stadium.


Hoyt stressed that the education of NIL is just as important as the deals that the university chooses to associate with.
"We have something that's called the circle of care. We have athletic trainers. We have mental health specialists, nutritionists and so many people that surround them. We view NIL as part of that circle of care," Hoyt said. "We want to make it easy for brands to connect with our student-athletes. It's just brought a lot of these lessons to their lives earlier, which isn't a bad thing necessarily. I think people are going to be better prepared for when they leave Ohio State."
With any capitalist venture, some will be more prepared financially than others.
According to On3.com, Ohio State quarterback C.J. Stroud has a NIL valuation of $2.4 million, which ranks seventh among all high school and college athletes, below Heisman Trophy winners Bryce Young and Caleb Williams and high school star Arch Manning, who verbally committed to Texas
"People don't recognize that for regular students at Ohio State, whether you play the piano or are an artist, you have always had the ability to monetize your name, image and likeness," Hoyt said. "Student-athletes have not had that same opportunity, so this is just leveling the playing field. It’s not that new of a concept, it’s just new to athletes.
For Ohio State, if a company is interested in engaging with an athlete, they fill out a form asking simple questions, such as who they are interested in. But the most important question is whether they have a current partnership agreement with Ohio State Sports Properties/Learfield IMG College.
It is then up to the athlete and the company to come up with terms and how their partnership moves forward. The university doesn’t get involved unless the use of facilities or equipment is required, usually for a photo or television commercial shoot.
 
So you’re saying 4.99 ⭐️ players are rounded down to 4 ⭐️ by the rating services?
I am assuming your are genuinely asking, so yes that's basically what it is. I'll use the 347 composite for my example as their point system is easier to understand than Rivals.

- 247 typically has 32 five stars - comparing them to the 1st round NFL draftees. This year they have 35, but they will do at least one more evaluation adjustment after the all-star games.

- Currently, the 4* players start at the 36th ranked and go to 438. The 347 composite has a lot more 4* than Rivals.

- 347 ranks the players using a point value. The 36th player, the highest ranked 4* is worth .9825. The lowest ranked 4* is ranked 428 and he is worth .8900.

- As you can see, there is a huge difference between being ranked 36th and 428th, yet both are referred to as 4*. So, yes, the way you put it there are some that are really 4.99 (just below 5*) and some that are just 4.00, and we refer to them all as 4* even though a class loaded with highly ranked 4* is way better than a class with lowly ranked 4*.

- And this is why no one looks at the star average for any indication of the quality of the class.

- There is an average that is helpful early in a recruiting class. Because both services reward larger classes (they both try to control quantity over quality), before it gets to where everyone has around 20 recruits, you have to look at averages to gauge how good a class is. But, for the reasons stated above you wouldn't look at average star rating, you would look at average points. 247 doesn't let you sort by that, yet Rivals let's you sort by average stars. That's why some people use that. Earlier this year you had teams like Northwestern and Texas Tech in the top 10. But that is because they had a half dozen or more recruits. If you looked at the average points, you would have seen the normal teams with the higher averages - Bama, UGA, tOSU, ND, LSU, UT, etc.
 
I like how you belittle me due to your ineptitude. Remember when you said that there was “No way” that Florida can have the 3rd average star rating, then you said it didn’t matter after seeing the data?

Prop up that straw man all you like.
In my initial post, I did say that there was "no way" that UF could have the 3rd highest average star rating - I knew you weren't top 10 so off the top of my head, it didn't make sense to me. Once I looked, I saw it was true. I wasn't belittling you ... as you can see from the post I then asked you were you saw that, you said Rivals, and I went and looked. You were correct. I never questioned your star average after you responded.

What I did do was point out that star averages don't matter because they don't. Since your post, I've seen any number of UF fans on other forums post this fact - "woo, hoo - we are 3rd by average." I can't imagine doing that, but if that is exciting to you and UF fans then great ... I hope you continue to do it as it means you aren't actually recruiting very well and that's good for UGA.

Not that it matters, but I find it interesting that when everyone typically looks at the 247 Composite for rankings, you chose Rivals. As I've stated in previous posts, it could be that it's because Rivals let's you sort by Star Average, while 247 doesn't let you sort at all. But it also could be that UGA as a better star average then UF in the Composite, although it doesn't matter - no one cares about the star average.

A final point to illustrate why star average doesn't matter - below are two graphs. The first shows classes broken out by stars. It shows that UGA has 5*s that UF doesn't have, more recruits in general, and then we have more 3* (something you have referred to several times, as if that really matters). Looking at that, the real disparity in the classes doesn't look all that bad - 3.9 v. 3.89.

But, when you look at the second graph where we keep the star rating colors, but order the graph by ranking, one can see why star average is not what people look at, and how much better UGA's class is - for example, we have 21 recruits ranked higher than your 7th highest recruit. We have 21 Rivals250, you have 7. That's not good for UF.

Again, all along I have simply tried to explain the difference in star average and actual rankings. I've done my job ... if you want to hang your hat on star rankings, power to you - that's good for me.

Rivals - Recruiting Stars - UF v. UGA

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Rivals - Recruiting Rankings - UF v. UGA

2022-12-29_16-41-36.png
 
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In my initial post, I did say that there was "no way" that UF could have the 3rd highest average star rating - I knew you weren't top 10 so off the top of my head, it didn't make sense to me. Once I looked, I saw it was true. I wasn't belittling you ... as you can see from the post I then asked you were you saw that, you said Rivals, and I went and looked. You were correct. I never questioned your star average after you responded.

What I did do was point out that star averages don't matter because they don't. Since your post, I've seen any number of UF fans on other forums post this fact - "woo, hoo - we are 3rd by average." I can't imagine doing that, but if that is exciting to you and UF fans then great ... I hope you continue to do it as it means you aren't actually recruiting very well and that's good for UGA.

Not that it matters, but I find it interesting that when everyone typically looks at the 247 Composite for rankings, you chose Rivals. As I've stated in previous posts, it could be that it's because Rivals let's you sort by Star Average, while 247 doesn't let you sort at all. But it also could be that UGA as a better star average then UF in the Composite, although it doesn't matter - no one cares about the star average.

A final point to illustrate why star average doesn't matter - below are two graphs. The first shows classes broken out by stars. It shows that UGA has 5*s that UF doesn't have, more recruits in general, and then we have more 3* (something you have referred to several times, as if that really matters). Looking at that, the real disparity in the classes doesn't look all that bad - 3.9 v. 3.89.

But, when you look at the second graph where we keep the star rating colors, but order the graph by ranking, one can see why star average is not what people look at, and how much better UGA's class is - for example, we have 21 recruits ranked higher than your 7th highest recruit. We have 21 Rivals250, you have 7. That's not good for UF.

Again, all along I have simply tried to explain the difference in star average and actual rankings. I've done my job ... if you want to hang your hat on star rankings, power to you - that's good for me.

Rivals - Recruiting Stars - UF v. UGA

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Rivals - Recruiting Rankings - UF v. UGA

View attachment 95742
There literally was no reason for you to type beyond the first paragraph. All the rest is your lie (stars don't matter, but we don't take 2 stars) and then your strawman of explaining differences between 4-star players to no one. Certainly, not to me. Are you trial attorney or something?
 
There literally was no reason for you to type beyond the first paragraph. All the rest is your lie (stars don't matter, but we don't take 2 stars) and then your strawman of explaining differences between 4-star players to no one. Certainly, not to me. Are you trial attorney or something?
Lie, LOL. Keep bragging about being 3rd by star average … so proud of you guys! Awesome class, you are closing the gap … by next year, you guys will certainly have even talent with us. Delusional Gator, love it!
 
Lie, LOL. Keep bragging about being 3rd by star average … so proud of you guys! Awesome class, you are closing the gap … by next year, you guys will certainly have even talent with us. Delusional Gator, love it!
What a sad little doggy.
 
What a sad little doggy.
If we lose tomorrow night, that will be a sad doggy night. You know, playing in the CFP and all. Nah, you wouldn't know.

Enjoy your top 3 by star average classes, and your 6-7 seasons!
 
Some of the pickle sniffing Johnny-come-lately UGA fans are almost enough to make me put on an tOSU cheer jersey.
LOL ... Johnny-come-lately ... like 42 years?
 
LOL ... Johnny-come-lately ... like 42 years?
And when UGA goes back to irrelevant just become an "expert" on one of the other 18 schools you are associated with. :suds:
 
If we lose tomorrow night, that will be a sad doggy night. You know, playing in the CFP and all. Nah, you wouldn't know.

Enjoy your top 3 by star average classes, and your 6-7 seasons!
Sad sad pup
 
And when UGA goes back to irrelevant just become an "expert" on one of the other 18 schools you are associated with. :beer2:
The fuck you talking about? Vandy ungergrad, UGA law. I’m a Dawg always, Vandy when they are good or it’s convenient. Neither schools are cults.
 
Some of the pickle sniffing Johnny-come-lately UGA fans are almost enough to make me put on an tOSU cheer jersey.

I will say this, to be fair most UGA fans seem legit but they are obnoxious. We probably have an obnoxious fanbase too. However, I have seen more UGA stuff in Middle Tennessee the last month or so... I think some of those bandwagon Bama fans that didn't exist before Saban are jumping on the Georgia bandwagon. They are NOT real Georgia fans so don't count it against Georgia just like you cannot count it against Alabama.
 
I will say this, to be fair most UGA fans seem legit but they are obnoxious. We probably have an obnoxious fanbase too. However, I have seen more UGA stuff in Middle Tennessee the last month or so... I think some of those bandwagon Bama fans that didn't exist before Saban are jumping on the Georgia bandwagon. They are NOT real Georgia fans so don't count it against Georgia just like you cannot count it against Alabama.
I do count it against Bama though. And UGA. And when A&M wins the natty and more A&M fans show up I'll hold it against them too :suds:
 
First, there are highly rated 4* and then there are low 4*. High level 4* are great. Lower level 4* not so much. So far he has landed the 186 and 256 best players. Sorry, those aren't top 4* ... those are low 4*. Now, he might land some higher ones, and might even get a 5* to come. But, getting 2 low 4* is not what he was hired to do.

As to it being his first year, here is the problem ... if he can't capitalize on the buzz he has right now ... the Deon magic ... it's not going to get easier next year once he goes 4-8. Seriously, he doesn't have a built in recruiting base in-state. Colorado hasn't been on the radar of any recruit in forever. It's miles away from where the best players are - Boulder to LA is 1000 miles; ; 1400 miles to Atlanta; 800 miles to Dallas. It's cold, and he has to deal with altitude. Now CU and Boulder are awesome in general, but I am not sure it will be to athletes. And, he now has to compete with the best in the business ... he's not going to beat out coaches like Smart, Saban, Day, Lanning, Riley, even Rhule at Nebraska. All those coaches can easily counter the excitement for playing for Deon. So, if he can't get anyone better with the buzz going on right now, where it won't be bussing any more than it is today, he's in for tough sledding, IMO.

What you are NOT saying is that a lot of teams on his schedule are dealing with some of the same issues.

All he has to recruit are teams like Utah, Washington State, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona State, etc. He doesn't need SEC recruiting classes at the moment to win 8-9 games.
 
What you are NOT saying is that a lot of teams on his schedule are dealing with some of the same issues.

All he has to recruit are teams like Utah, Washington State, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona State, etc. He doesn't need SEC recruiting classes at the moment to win 8-9 games.

It's all relative. Low 4 stars might not be great if you want to beat Georgia or Alabama. A bunch of them can help get you to bowl eligibility in the PAC after a few years.

Here are the 3 highest ranked kids CU got from the last 2 cycles:

2022 - 600, 635, 691
2021 - 413, 696, 860

I don't think people realize how bad their recruiting fell off the last two years (and it wasn't great to begin with). Combine that with the fact that any decent player left in the portal, Deion is basically trying to build the program from scratch. The fact that he got hired a few weeks before signing day and still has three top 300 kids signed is pretty impressive given the situation. He will probably add to that by the end of the cycle. He also has three 4/5 transfers coming in. He's given the juice to the program that CU needed, it's just not going to be the quick fix some people think it's going to be.
 
It's all relative. Low 4 stars might not be great if you want to beat Georgia or Alabama. A bunch of them can help get you to bowl eligibility in the PAC after a few years.

Here are the 3 highest ranked kids CU got from the last 2 cycles:

2022 - 600, 635, 691
2021 - 413, 696, 860

I don't think people realize how bad their recruiting fell off the last two years (and it wasn't great to begin with). Combine that with the fact that any decent player left in the portal, Deion is basically trying to build the program from scratch. The fact that he got hired a few weeks before signing day and still has three top 300 kids signed is pretty impressive given the situation. He will probably add to that by the end of the cycle. He also has three 4/5 transfers coming in. He's given the juice to the program that CU needed, it's just not going to be the quick fix some people think it's going to be.

True and I almost listed the Big12 teams because I believe Oregon and Washington will go to B1G and Colorado will go to Big12. That is probably an even easier path. They will have to compete against teams in Texas though along with UCF in Florida.

However, it does seem like BYU/Utah are always able to recruit fairly well. I see a lot of players of Polynesia descent going to both schools as well as other Pac12 schools that are very good players.
 
Unless you have a collective willing to shell out serious cash -- no one is going to consistently pull in 5 star recruits anymore. The fans saying their school is pulling in those recruits with culture or anything else are kidding themselves.

These top ranked recruits are holding winning lottery tickets and this is their chance to cash it in. They may accept slightly less to go to one big program over another, but as you see with what happened at A&M, Miami, etc. -- There will ALWAYS be 5 star kids you can buy.

There will be some examples that are different. A good example would be Arch Manning. I doubt him and his family are hurting for cash and they will likely go with a school that is best fit to get them to NFL or succeed at. You will get some of those players (notably legacy players who had family that played) but for most part, NIL will be required.
 
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