What Is The PAC’s or Big 12’s Move?

WhosYourDawggy said:
The problem with that is that B12 seems to be in better shape because they have been working on it for a year. I am not sure what contracts have been signed, if any, but for BYU and others to bail within the first year would be odd. Not putting it past people, but it would be odd.
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Remember the BigEast circus?

TCU "joined" the BigEast in 2010 and then quickly backed out and joined the B12 instead the following year because the BigEast was imploding. A little different situation here since none of the B12 announced additions (BYU, Cincy, Houston, UCF) would be asked to join the PAC and even if some B12 member schools got snapped up by the PAC, the new additions would likely not be able to find a better home than a weakened B12.
 
Wild Turkey said:
I can’t see us adding OSU over FSU, Clemson, Miami, VT, NC State.

No way any of those ACC programs don’t beg to be in the SEC and two have already made inquiries that we know of and wouldn’t be shocked if all had.
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19 Clemson — 1.74M
22 Oklahoma State — 1.58M
25 Florida State — 1.27M
35 Miami — 1.038M
36 North Carolina — 1.032M
40 West Virginia — 948K
51 Louisville — 616K
52 Virginia — 611K
55 Kansas — 540K
57 NC State — 525K
62 Virginia Tech — 447K
97 Duke — 64K

Why people like NCSU and VaTech over OkSU makes no sense to me. Plus OSU adds to the west division ... ATM, UT, OU , OkSU, Arky, Mizzou.
 
Red_Alert said:
Yup

Things are gonna happen PAC 12/Big 12 long before they do in the ACC.
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The ACC rest in the hands of ND and UNC. If those two decide to seek new homes the rest will reach out immediately and the league will fold pretty quickly. To make it happen I think the B1G and SEC will have to load up with more teams than they really want to kill the GOR but I’m pretty sure they would do it so they don’t have to wait 14 years.

By the time the dust settles the P5 will be the P3 and honestly it will be only P2 but I hope the Big 12 can muster enough to stay in the conversation and keep a national playoff alive.

I’m not a fan of the thought of the SEC and B1G forming their own playoff and killing off CFB as we know it today. It will happen anyway but we won’t be better off for it.
 
ralphiewvu said:
I don’t think they will but in terms of prestige and teams that have recent success and a good history I think the PAC wins that over the B12 after this latest round of realignment. If there was an agreement and contract in place by all the PAC schools after USC/UCLA that no one would leave, I doubt the Az schools and Utah/Colorado would come to the B12.
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What about you guys? Gald to be in the B12, but what if the ACC or SEC came calling. SEC for sure. Prolly not for the ACC. I wouldn't mind burning a couch or two on a fall night in Morgantown!
 
Notre Dame saying no to B1G (which is the rumors) may spark new life in the ACC and stop the chaos (for now).

I am not sure Notre Dame is totally done with B1G and B1G can rank up the pressure. It is surprising Notre Dame is leaving so much money on the table.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
19 Clemson — 1.74M
22 Oklahoma State — 1.58M
25 Florida State — 1.27M
35 Miami — 1.038M
36 North Carolina — 1.032M
40 West Virginia — 948K
51 Louisville — 616K
52 Virginia — 611K
55 Kansas — 540K
57 NC State — 525K
62 Virginia Tech — 447K
97 Duke — 64K

Why people like NCSU and VaTech over OkSU makes no sense to me. Plus OSU adds to the west division ... ATM, UT, OU , OkSU, Arky, Mizzou.
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Yeah, if the SEC were to grab 4 schools off the open market from the B12 an ACC, I'd say Clemson, FSU, Okie St, and UNC would be their favorite targets.

Didn't include Miami simply because adding FSU gives them 2 schools in the state already. 3 is overkill.
 
Wild Turkey said:
The ACC rest in the hands of ND and UNC. If those two decide to seek new homes the rest will reach out immediately and the league will fold pretty quickly. To make it happen I think the B1G and SEC will have to load up with more teams than they really want to kill the GOR but I’m pretty sure they would do it so they don’t have to wait 14 years.

By the time the dust settles the P5 will be the P3 and honestly it will be only P2 but I hope the Big 12 can muster enough to stay in the conversation and keep a national playoff alive.

I’m not a fan of the thought of the SEC and B1G forming their own playoff and killing off CFB as we know it today. It will happen anyway but we won’t be better off for it.
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All it takes is a 4 (SEC)/4 Big 10 split, or a 6 (SEC)/2 (Big 10) split and it's over.
 
Wild Turkey said:
The ACC rest in the hands of ND and UNC. If those two decide to seek new homes the rest will reach out immediately and the league will fold pretty quickly. To make it happen I think the B1G and SEC will have to load up with more teams than they really want to kill the GOR but I’m pretty sure they would do it so they don’t have to wait 14 years.

By the time the dust settles the P5 will be the P3 and honestly it will be only P2 but I hope the Big 12 can muster enough to stay in the conversation and keep a national playoff alive.

I’m not a fan of the thought of the SEC and B1G forming their own playoff and killing off CFB as we know it today. It will happen anyway but we won’t be better off for it.
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If the ACC teams are ready to jump now I think you will see three conferences:

- SEC with the addition of some combination of OkSU, UNC, UVA, Clemson, FSU or Miami.
- B1G with the addition of some combination of UNC or UVA.
- B12 or PAC, whichever one survices.

All this is predicated on the ACC exploding and the SEC and B1G finding $100 million per team increases.
 
Tharvot said:
Yeah, if the SEC were to grab 4 schools off the open market from the B12 an ACC, I'd say Clemson, FSU, Okie St, and UNC would be their favorite targets.

Didn't include Miami simply because adding FSU gives them 2 schools in the state already. 3 is overkill.
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I am not for Miami, but they have long term potential, and the Maimi market is huge for money and recruiting.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
What about you guys? Gald to be in the B12, but what if the ACC or SEC came calling. SEC for sure. Prolly not for the ACC. I wouldn't mind burning a couch or two on a fall night in Morgantown!
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West Virginia will give the SEC their (small) endowment to be in the SEC. Sadly I don’t think it’ll ever happen man, we don’t raise the pie any and football has fallen off a bunch. The ACC has a lot of rivals but that conference would be a shell of itself if we were ever allowed to join. I’m hoping this B12 thing pans out. The travel sucks but it is cool to play some of the bigger names we have and potentially could if things come together.

But the SEC is a dream.
 
Volbound1700 said:
Notre Dame saying no to B1G (which is the rumors) may spark new life in the ACC and stop the chaos (for now).

I am not sure Notre Dame is totally done with B1G and B1G can rank up the pressure. It is surprising Notre Dame is leaving so much money on the table.
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A lot of their brand was built by being the big catholic university barnstorming across the country as an independent. ND loses a lot of that identity by being in a conference. Sure, it's a terrible short term decision, but it's understandable why they'd be reluctant or hesitate for a few years.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
19 Clemson — 1.74M
22 Oklahoma State — 1.58M
25 Florida State — 1.27M
35 Miami — 1.038M
36 North Carolina — 1.032M
40 West Virginia — 948K
51 Louisville — 616K
52 Virginia — 611K
55 Kansas — 540K
57 NC State — 525K
62 Virginia Tech — 447K
97 Duke — 64K

Why people like NCSU and VaTech over OkSU makes no sense to me. Plus OSU adds to the west division ... ATM, UT, OU , OkSU, Arky, Mizzou.
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I just don’t think they will do it. Numbers today will not reflect what will happen when this is over. The decisions made will literally drive the schools chosen up and the ones not down.

If Bedlam is stopped OUS numbers drop considerably. You put Florida, FSU and Miami in a pod and you’ve got a ratings banaza.

The populations of Virginia and NC keeps VT and NCS in serious contention. It just does. The SEC owns the state of Oklahoma after 2025 anyway. So I think the upside is greater.
 
ralphiewvu said:
West Virginia will give the SEC their (small) endowment to be in the SEC. Sadly I don’t think it’ll ever happen man, we don’t raise the pie any and football has fallen off a bunch. The ACC has a lot of rivals but that conference would be a shell of itself if we were ever allowed to join. I’m hoping this B12 thing pans out. The travel sucks but it is cool to play some of the bigger names we have and potentially could if things come together.

But the SEC is a dream.
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You are probably right :(. I think West Virginia had a great chance in 2010 when we had A&M and were looking for a team in the SEC East. West Virginia was a serious option but Missouri came calling and SEC liked St. Louis and Kansas City markets.
 
Top Cat said:
A lot of their brand was built by being the big catholic university barnstorming across the country as an independent. ND loses a lot of that identity by being in a conference. Sure, it's a terrible short term decision, but it's understandable why they'd be reluctant or hesitate for a few years.
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True. However, I think the B1G will still want them. B1G can threaten to end USC matchup and that get Notre Dame thinking.

However, I am thinking Notre Dame may push for further considerations. I still think Boston College is a missing link. That is a big game for Notre Dame. I could see another series where Notre Dame asks for Boston College, Pittsburgh (or Georgia Tech) and Stanford to be in the B1G.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
What about you guys? Gald to be in the B12, but what if the ACC or SEC came calling. SEC for sure. Prolly not for the ACC. I wouldn't mind burning a couch or two on a fall night in Morgantown!
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Culturally, WVU isn't a terrible fit for the SEC. There's already plenty hillbilly moonshinin' Appalachia with the likes of Arkansas, Kentucky, and Tennessee. West Virginia ain't far off that map. Alabama and Mississippi are basically backwoods kissing cousins to them. Everyone just keeps their misfit distant cajun relatives from LA at arms length.

East coast is a little different in terms of cultural fit for the SEC. More smug and proper in old Virginia and North Carolina. I suppose Georgia would be a close cultural comp.
 
Volbound1700 said:
You are probably right :(. I think West Virginia had a great chance in 2010 when we had A&M and were looking for a team in the SEC East. West Virginia was a serious option but Missouri came calling and SEC liked St. Louis and Kansas City markets.
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Our only hope realistically is praying the B1G and SEC let the B12 have a seat at the table. Not sure that
happens if each has 22+ teams but I’m hopeful.
 
Tharvot said:
Culturally, WVU isn't a terrible fit for the SEC. There's already plenty hillbilly moonshinin' Appalachia with the likes of Arkansas, Kentucky, and Tennessee. West Virginia ain't far off that map. Alabama and Mississippi are basically backwoods kissing cousins to them. Everyone just keeps their misfit distant cajun relatives from LA at arms length.

East coast is a little different in terms of cultural fit for the SEC. More smug and proper in old Virginia and North Carolina. I suppose Georgia would be a close cultural comp.
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North Carolina has plenty of hillbillies. Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, and somewhat Virginia and Arkansas are basically the same cultural branch. They are not deep south. Virginia has lost a lot of its culture because of Alexandria and eastern Virginia being taken over by people from DC.
 
Good article from ESPN's Bill Connely - this might require ESPN+ so I will post relevant parts here. I really like his observation that 16 seems ideal to still be a conference. With the 3,6,6 scheduling it's the perfect number for 9 IC games, 3 OOC games that allows great OOC scheduling plus a few "byes" via cupcakes.

I've posted that while I really like 16, of you go further you almost have to go to 22 where you can do 3,6,6,6 scheduling. I just don't see enough schools available now for the SEC to add 6 more. Let things shake out, and the plunder the ACC in 2033-ish.

The next big move is the biggest one​

At 16 teams, you can still act like a conference. Now that we've accepted that it's OK to ditch divisions, you can play all of your 15 other conference-mates in a short time: With a nine-game conference schedule, you can play three permanent rivals annually, rotate among the other 12 -- six one year, six the next -- and play home-and-homes with everyone within four years. Granted, it's still a little awkward when one of your conference members is as close to Iceland as it is to a couple of its new siblings, but it can be done.

If you move to 18 teams or 20, you either have to play 10 or 11 conference games to assure the same rotations or you have to accept messy scheduling and fewer games among some conference members. That obviously can be done, too -- just look up how many times Texas A&M and Georgia have played since A&M joined the SEC in 2012 -- but it's not quite as cohesive. Sixteen programs works great for tournaments in the other sports, too.

There's at least a possibility that the Big Ten will decide to stick with 16 members for a while, both for that reason and because at some point there might be diminishing financial returns per school. Adding the Los Angeles market was massive; it's possible the conference doesn't think adding, say, the Portland and Seattle markets or the Bay Area adds as much. Barring a call from a certain program in South Bend, it might decide to pause, bask in the boom of new TV contracts and new money and go about life as one of college sports' two superconferences.

There's also a chance the conference will decide to break the seal and go beyond 16 teams. If or when that happens, it's a new ballgame altogether.

In the wake of last week's shocking news, all of our imaginations went wild. Oregon and Washington might go to the Big Ten too! And what about Cal and Stanford -- they're extremely Big Ten! This could be the thing that finally entices Notre Dame to join! And ACC heavyweights might try to lawyer their way out of their grant of rights and join the SEC! Duke and North Carolina could join either one! The age of superduper conferences has begun! A 32-team (or so) super league isn't far behind!

Until that happens, however, this might be it. (Lord knows that with the way secrets are kept now, we might not hear about it in advance.) The Big Ten might decide no other Western entities add to the bankroll in quite the same way as USC and UCLA, Notre Dame might continue to stand pat, the Pac-12 might simply add the most enticing Mountain West programs on the board -- San Diego State? Colorado State? Boise State joining at last? -- and life will go on.

Make no mistake, though: If the Big Ten wants Oregon and Washington, it will get Oregon and Washington. Cal and Stanford? Same thing. We might not have reached that point with Notre Dame yet, but it could be getting awfully close.

Schools might want to preserve rivalries, maintain some semblance of loyalty and assure that their volleyball team isn't traveling three time zones away on a Wednesday night in October. But there is no loyalty in college sports when FOGLB -- Fear of Getting Left Behind -- is as powerful as it has become, and football money will forever trump volleyball logistics. If the Big Ten indeed elects to more fully flesh out its Western branch, the only limit on what could happen next is your own imagination.

(By the way, I'm ignoring the thought of the Big Ten and SEC ejecting underperforming members and adding other powers for now. I know that one has floated around online, too, but I just don't think it's as realistic as other options. I could be wrong -- it wouldn't be the first time.)
 
Volbound1700 said:
North Carolina has plenty of hillbillies. Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, and somewhat Virginia and Arkansas are basically the same cultural branch. They are not deep south. Virginia has lost a lot of its culture because of Alexandria and eastern Virginia being taken over by people from DC.
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Yeah, the urbanization in those states is partially what makes them seem more like a B1G fit than they ever would have been 20 years ago.

In my mind, i still picture old victorian south when I think of Virginia and North Carolina. Stark contrast with my mental image of most of the other SEC states where i just picture Deliverance. Except Louisiana. That state i just picture tigerbait eating crawdads, chugging beer, and spewing indecipherable coonass nonsense.
 
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