PAC, ACC and the Big 12 are ALL dead as far as “P5” level goes. While there are teams that play just as good a football as some in the SEC and B1G, the financial gap still says they aren’t even on the same planet.
Kliavkoff (not a ballet dancer but the PAC commissioner) - Takes On the Big 12
- Thread starter Wild Turkey
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
Rumor is that AZ is hot to make the move because they want to establish a bball rivalry with Kansas (that honestly would be up there with some of the biggest and huge money maker) and just want someone to come with. I could see several being tempted by having the access to the Texas recruiting market like ASU, Colorado and Utah. If anyone else bolts it will be a free fall.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
- Posts
- 4,394
- Reaction score
- 2,073
- Bookie:
- $ 7,613.00
like i said in my opinion losing the 4 corner schools is not as big a blow as LA. getting some MWC schools in place of them isnt going to hurt the Pac the same.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,621
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
You aren't seriously saying you could replace ASU, AZ, UU, and UC with MWC schools and expect to get anywhere the money, are you?
I mean losing those 4 v. losing USC ... no comparison. On that I agree. But losing those 4 ends the PAC as a P5. No coming back from that.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 41,467
- Reaction score
- 47,163
- Bookie:
- $ 122,000.00
- Location
- still exiled in Illinois
Doesn't matter. If it's not SEC, it's not football.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,621
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
Not what I think, but you do you.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 41,467
- Reaction score
- 47,163
- Bookie:
- $ 122,000.00
- Location
- still exiled in Illinois
No, what I think is that you don't see the sport only trophies and dollars.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,621
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
Not really sure what that means ... the sport includes trophies, and dollars certainly play a big part in the sport.
I've followed UGA when they went to the Belk Bowl and the Outback Bowl, etc. I was a huge Richt fan even when he didn't win the ultimate trophy. I went to every Vandy home game and many away games when I was in school there ... we won 6 games in 4 years. I've been going to college football games for 55+ years. I am confident that I see all aspects of the sport. It is you that seems to be judging those of us who see the entire sport, even its warts, apparently thinking you are superior because you only pay attention to the pagentry or the goodness of it all.
Good for you ... do it your way, but get off the high horse judging those of us who see and like everything about the sport. You aren't any better than the rest of us.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
They are hanging onto a reality where they can carry a conference no matter what happens. It's a coping mechanism to deal with the following:
- The heart and soul just got ripped out of the PAC
- They didn't get invited to the real party
- Their best shot of survival is to join the Big 12 with the best of the PAC
There are no conceivable replacements for AZ, ASU, Utah, and Colorado. The PAC has just made some massively bad errors and all of them are coming back to haunt them at the same time.
1. They didn't get a network partner like ESPN to produce their conference channel so therefore no one in the country saw their games
2. They went way overboard during COVID and put a massive financial strain on their programs
3. They let Larry Scott run the conference for way to long
4. They refused to take Big 12 schools when Texas and OU left (just think if they had Baylor, Tech, Kansas and Okie State right now the script would be reversed and the Big 12 would be toast).
It was a classic head-in-the-sand story that has bitten them big time. The best scenario is literally no one else leaves and they stay at 10 schools because there is no value anywhere. I think someone else jumps ship over the next couple of months and the whole conference falls apart. They are negotiating with networks but you have to think they are wondering if some type of combination with the Big 12 isn't in the network's best interest and if their own agendas will sink the PAC.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 5,012
- Reaction score
- 10,438
- Bookie:
- $ 4,000.00
I saw ballet in the title and figured a li'l Waltz of the Flowers would probably be appropriate here.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2020
- Posts
- 8,621
- Reaction score
- 6,970
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
Brutal ... but can't see where you're wrong!
I'd add that Scott spent a shit-ton of money on their offices and other admin expenses, and that he and the Presidents are/were incredibly arrogant about the PAC's role in the CFB world. See no. 4 on your list for a prima facie example.
I am going to take Warren as being honest (I know, I know) that they still may consider additional expansion once their TV deal is done. I didn't get that at first ... intuitively it would seem to make more sense to have all your teams lined up before you negotiate that deal. But I think they think the maximum per team deal will be as they are currently constituted. Get the deal done, show the other 4 teams they are allowed in, but at a reduced rate, or something more like what they did with Maryland and Rutgers where they didn't get full deals immediately. But, I can see them needing the 4 schools - Cal, Stanford, Ore, and UW - to have a 6 teams western pod or division.
Either way - those 4 teams to the B1G, or the corner teams to the B12 and the PAC is toast. One or both of those are going to happen.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 41,467
- Reaction score
- 47,163
- Bookie:
- $ 122,000.00
- Location
- still exiled in Illinois
Football is the sport. Conferences, trophies, recruiting are the business. Open a sports business thread and I promise I won't read it.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
I think Warren is kind of a snake and I’m not sure anyone out of the B1G has any respect for him. Sankey isn’t loved but he is respected. Warren lead the charge to kill the 12 team playoff and the alliance and then literally skull fucked the PAC. The hypocrisy of Warren is amazing as he painted the SEC as the ultimate evil and then turned about face and did the same thing but with people he was supposed to be partnering with and had a decades defacto alliance and shared major bowl.
I still think the B1G wants to see if they land UNC and Virginia out of the ACC before he looks back west. Nobody is expanding again until the ACC GOR is up or ND surprises everyone and joins. I actually think ND stays independent waits for the ACC to fold and then strikes a deal with the B1G like they did with the ACC. The only way ND joins is if the revenue divide gets to great (which NBC will step up until they can’t) or they get boxed out of the national championship game.
One thing is for sure the GOR signing for Washington and Oregon is going to be super tense and a PAC network deal is going to depend on it.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
Liar
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
- Posts
- 4,394
- Reaction score
- 2,073
- Bookie:
- $ 7,613.00
Arizona and Arizona State joined the Pac in 1978 from the WAC. Pac could have just as easily grabbed Utah and Utah State at that time, or New Mexico and New Mexico State or any 2 other schools and they would have been where AZ and ASU are now.
it wasnt that long ago that a conference with Boise, Utah, BYU, and TCU was taking shape and people asked could they be a power conference. 3 of those teams have now moved up. so yeah i think if Pac lost the 4 corners and brought in some MWC teams that the differential of earnings would be minimal
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2020
- Posts
- 18,950
- Reaction score
- 30,815
- Bookie:
- $ 10,500.00
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
- Posts
- 8,639
- Reaction score
- 9,614
- Bookie:
- $ 17,332.00
Yea those 3 were suckin hind tit already but if any more schools leave the PAC (likely) then that conference (if they try and survive at all) is gone even further down the pecking order, like MWC/Sunbelt ect.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
- Posts
- 8,639
- Reaction score
- 9,614
- Bookie:
- $ 17,332.00
Those schools don't equal AZ, ASU, CU or Utah.
Had the PAC added BYU, SDSU, UNLV, and maybe Houston and those markets say15-20 years ago they may well have developed into a very valuable property for the PAC today but that ship has sailed and as WT said it's a different ballgame now, if those schools were as valuable as you think the networks would have made the PAC move on them several years ago.
trojanfan12
Super Moderator
Agree with almost all of this.
I think that staying at 10 would be fine, but they would be better off adding a couple of teams. For example SDSU would be good because it would put them back in SoCal which is one of the best recruiting grounds in the country.
But they are at a true tipping point...because you're right...if UofA jumps to the Big 12, it's likely that ASU goes with them, then Utah and Colorado are likely right behind them.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2020
- Posts
- 8,331
- Reaction score
- 4,738
- Bookie:
- $ 1,000.00
You simply can't compare anything that happened in the 70's to what is CFB now. In the 70's, CFB wasn't a multi billion dollar business. Picking up MWC teams isn't going to move the needle one iota for a TV contract, as no one is tuning in to see Fresno State or Utah State or San Diego State play anyone from the PAC. Air Force may get some viewers as people like to watch their crazy ass offense.
Losing any more established P5 programs from the PAC is the end of the PAC. In all honesty, I think it is simply a matter of time before the PAC gets dismantled, as they just lost the heart and soul of the conference. If ND doesn't get what they want on a TV deal and join the B1G - it will be announced immediately another PAC team joining them in the B1G, most likely Stanford (though I'd rather Oregon, but ND will want their annual game with Stanford, and the B1G is all about academics and Oregon isn't a big academic school)