CFP Expansion ... it's back on and better than ever ... kind of ...

When was the last time a Conference Champion won the Super Bowl? (The team that won the AFC or NFC).

The Rams and Bengals were definitely not Conference Champions last year and Tampa Bay was a #5 seed in 2021.

You can also look at College Basketball or Baseball and often see teams winning the National Title that did not win their conference. It is actually pretty common in sports.
And how many people watch the regular season in college basketball and baseball?

Even the NFL is a bit different model, there's only 30 something teams. But the regular season, and losses, don't carry nearly the significance that they do in college. IT's the same problem CBB shares, you don't want to lose in the regular season but ultimately it doesn't matter unless you lose a lot.
 
They are playing for bracket position as that will matter. The top teams playing the lower teams will be like a bye. The middle is where the good games should be.
1 vs. 2 Michigan Ohio State, game of the century where it will decide....what 3 loss team they play in the playoff.
 
And how many people watch the regular season in college basketball and baseball?

Even the NFL is a bit different model, there's only 30 something teams. But the regular season, and losses, don't carry nearly the significance that they do in college. IT's the same problem CBB shares, you don't want to lose in the regular season but ultimately it doesn't matter unless you lose a lot.

By eliminating underdog teams like a Boise State from a shot at the title, you are actually making College Football even weaker.

Part of the ingredients that are missing in football are the underdog teams. It is ridiculous to have a team like UCF in 2018 go undefeated and not have a shot. You might as well move them down a division because there is literally no option that allows them to play for a title unless they get lucky on scheduling (which is often out of their control as it takes two to tango).

I won't lie, I am a fan of seeing a P5-only league and moving the G5s down. It doesn't make sense to have them if they can't play for the crown.

However, if we expand playoffs, we give them their shot. 2018 UCF would have been in the mix with an 8-team or larger playoff.
 
"A 12 team playoff, where every game can now feel like Arizona vs. Cal pac12 at dark"
 
By eliminating underdog teams like a Boise State from a shot at the title, you are actually making College Football even weaker.

Part of the ingredients that are missing in football are the underdog teams. It is ridiculous to have a team like UCF in 2018 go undefeated and not have a shot. You might as well move them down a division because there is literally no option that allows them to play for a title unless they get lucky on scheduling (which is often out of their control as it takes two to tango).

I won't lie, I am a fan of seeing a P5-only league and moving the G5s down. It doesn't make sense to have them if they can't play for the crown.

However, if we expand playoffs, we give them their shot. 2018 UCF would have been in the mix with an 8-team or larger playoff.
Boise has no shot, and never will. The solution to that is to remove the G5 and create a separate championship, not dilute the current one and ruin the regular season, to give Boise a spot that they still have absolutely a 0% shot at winning. What makes underdogs fun are teams like that taking out a team here or there out of absolute no where. And what makes those games fun is that they typically take a team out of the running for something. That's gone in this scenario. What hasn't happened, and what will never happen, is a team like Boise running through a 12 team playoff to win a title. It's an illusion of a chance. 2018 UCF would have lost. They couldn't have played 3-4 of the best teams back to back and won.
 
Boise has no shot, and never will. The solution to that is to remove the G5 and create a separate championship, not dilute the current one and ruin the regular season, to give Boise a spot that they still have absolutely a 0% shot at winning. What makes underdogs fun are teams like that taking out a team here or there out of absolute no where. And what makes those games fun is that they typically take a team out of the running for something. That's gone in this scenario. What hasn't happened, and what will never happen, is a team like Boise running through a 12 team playoff to win a title. It's an illusion of a chance. 2018 UCF would have lost. They couldn't have played 3-4 of the best teams back to back and won.

This is the kind of regular season matchups that you are worried about diluting:

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I mean the regular season has suffered more lately with Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc. crushing everyone on their schedule and constantly winning classic rivalry matchups more than it has due to playoff expansions.
 
This is the kind of regular season matchups that you are worried about diluting:

View attachment 83618



I mean the regular season has suffered more lately with Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc. crushing everyone on their schedule and constantly winning classic rivalry matchups more than it has due to playoff expansions.

Yes. I absolutely am. Because you know what you just showed? a single case of Michigan making it into the playoff over the last 20 years. In a 12 team format, you know what you just showed? 30% of the time Michigan getting into the playoff over the last 20 years with exactly 3 wins against Ohio State.

You know what else you just showed? Ohio State making it into the playoffs 19 out of the last 20 years in a 12 team format.....sounds fucking terrible.
 
Yes. I absolutely am. Because you know what you just showed? a single case of Michigan making it into the playoff over the last 20 years. In a 12 team format, you know what you just showed? 30% of the time Michigan getting into the playoff over the last 20 years with exactly 3 wins against Ohio State.

Cincinnati Bengals were 10-7 and they made the Super Bowl :pound: . Tampa Bay was #5 seed in 2021 and made Super Bowl. Should the NFL go down to a 4-team playoff?

NFL regular season hasn't been hurt by playoffs. In fact it tends to be stronger as a result. Sure if you did like NBA or MLB and play 80+ games, that would be a problem.
 
Cincinnati Bengals were 10-7 and they made the Super Bowl :pound: . Tampa Bay was #5 seed in 2021 and made Super Bowl. Should the NFL go down to a 4-team playoff?

NFL regular season hasn't been hurt by playoffs. In fact it tends to be stronger as a result. Sure if you did like NBA or MLB and play 80+ games, that would be a problem.
NFL is a different animal. And a lot of it's modern interest surround fantasy football and sports betting. I bet no one gave a shit when the Bengals lost 7 games. So yeah, it is hurt. No one gives a shit? I bet we all tuned in to watch a bunch of bad teams yesterday and last Saturday. I bet not many people are casually tuning it to watch the Lions or Browns first games.
 
NFL is a different animal. And a lot of it's modern interest surround fantasy football and sports betting. I bet no one gave a shit when the Bengals lost 7 games. So yeah, it is hurt. No one gives a shit? I bet we all tuned in to watch a bunch of bad teams yesterday and last Saturday. I bet not many people are casually tuning it to watch the Lions or Browns first games.

Do you have any antidotal evidence that College Football's regular season will be ruined by an expanded playoff? To me, it is already being ruined by the Saban effect (having the same teams dominate recruiting and the matchups).

Playoffs might open the door to more parity. If we continue to limit, your going to turn off entire areas of the country (in fact it is already happening) because teams that are not in the B1G or SEC will not be able to play in the playoffs so if you are in Idaho, for example, why keep up with College Football anymore. What does your team have to play for?
 
I prefer 8 teams. Too long a playoff and more will players bail on injury risk. Some already do now so not to get injured before the draft.
 
Do you have any antidotal evidence that College Football's regular season will be ruined by an expanded playoff? To me, it is already being ruined by the Saban effect (having the same teams dominate recruiting and the matchups).

Playoffs might open the door to more parity. If we continue to limit, your going to turn off entire areas of the country (in fact it is already happening) because teams that are not in the B1G or SEC will not be able to play in the playoffs so if you are in Idaho, for example, why keep up with College Football anymore. What does your team have to play for?
It's already being ruined by the playoff....yes. The BCS was the better system because the BCS bowls still held significance. They were a measure of success, we used to argue on the *old* forums about how many BCS bowls teams had reached in X# of years. Who wanted to see a rematch of UGA vs Alabama last year? No one. I'm not even sure I watched much of the national title game last year because it was so uninteresting.
 
It's already being ruined by the playoff....yes. The BCS was the better system because the BCS bowls still held significance. They were a measure of success, we used to argue on the *old* forums about how many BCS bowls teams had reached in X# of years. Who wanted to see a rematch of UGA vs Alabama last year? No one. I'm not even sure I watched much of the national title game last year because it was so uninteresting.

2003 USC, 2004 Auburn, and others would disagree with you.
 
2003 USC, 2004 Auburn, and others would disagree with you.
Teams will always be left out who don't make the cut. It's hard to argue that CFB wasn't more entertaining as a whole in the BCS era than it's been in the playoff era.
 
So, you are saying ESPN would be willing to up the ante for the orphaned 8 to the level the conference would get if OU and Texas stayed for the duration of the contract? Oh the irony. Didn't they fork over some money years ago to keep Texas and OU in the Big 12 when they were sniffing around other conferences?
If you are going to end up with the SEC and the B12, what do you care where the money comes from or goes. Putting OU and TX in the SEC makes ESPN more money immediately. Why not help the process, especially since it's all been decided except for when. It's basically a math equation they can run and it makes sense or it doesn't. I think that's the reasoning.
 
There's no way around it, it will. Harbaugh would have 3 playoff appearances under his belt if there were a 12 team playoff. We had no fewer than 2 regular season losses in 2/3 of those cases and 0 wins over Ohio State. And one of those seasons we lost to both Ohio State and Michigan state.

I'm sorry, a Michigan team who loses to both MSU and OSU should have absolutely no shot at a national title. Teams who have 2-3 losses on the year shouldn't qualify for a playoff.
Who cares if they "deserve" it or not ... having UM in the CFP 3 times would have made it more enjoyable for UM fans, and for general fans of college football. Would you honestly have been "ho hum, we are in the CFP again with 2 losses, this sucks?" What if one of the games you got to play was in Ann Arbor? That's not a good thing for the fans? What if being in the CFP 3 times helped you recruit better?

Did you watch the Pitt/WVU game last night? Crazy environment. Guess what? Neither team has a chance at getting into the CFP this year. Yet, it was one crazy game and one crazy night. Those fans have a memory they will always have. But, imagine if they also realized that maybe if they win this game and then can win 9-10 more, they are in the CFP?

The idea that expanding to 12 teams somehow makes the season worse simply makes no sense at all where right now 95% of the teams are eliminated before the season even starts, and a month in we know who the 5 or 6 teams are that will get in.
 
Teams will always be left out who don't make the cut. It's hard to argue that CFB wasn't more entertaining as a whole in the BCS era than it's been in the playoff era.
It's way more entertaining now, in my opinion.
 
Who cares if they "deserve" it or not ... having UM in the CFP 3 times would have made it more enjoyable for UM fans, and for general fans of college football. Would you honestly have been "ho hum, we are in the CFP again with 2 losses, this sucks?" What if one of the games you got to play was in Ann Arbor? That's not a good thing for the fans? What if being in the CFP 3 times helped you recruit better?

Did you watch the Pitt/WVU game last night? Crazy environment. Guess what? Neither team has a chance at getting into the CFP this year. Yet, it was one crazy game and one crazy night. Those fans have a memory they will always have. But, imagine if they also realized that maybe if they win this game and then can win 9-10 more, they are in the CFP?

The idea that expanding to 12 teams somehow makes the season worse simply makes no sense at all where right now 95% of the teams are eliminated before the season even starts, and a month in we know who the 5 or 6 teams are that will get in.
Yes, we all did watch WVU and Pitt last night. Because one was a ranked team, the other a pretty significant B12 team, and a loss for either meant that pretty much their hope of a playoff spot was burst on opening night. Unless WVU runs the table now, they're probably out. But hey, in a 12 team playoff they have two more losses to give!

The environment was crazy because it was a rivalry game that meant something. And what 12 team playoff supporters are suggesting is that we remove the meaning behind these games so that more average teams have the chance to get blown out in the playoff.
 
Yes, we all did watch WVU and Pitt last night. Because one was a ranked team, the other a pretty significant B12 team, and a loss for either meant that pretty much their hope of a playoff spot was burst on opening night. Unless WVU runs the table now, they're probably out. But hey, in a 12 team playoff they have two more losses to give!

The environment was crazy because it was a rivalry game that meant something. And what 12 team playoff supporters are suggesting is that we remove the meaning behind these games so that more average teams have the chance to get blown out in the playoff.
You make that sound like it's a bad thing. Name me one other sport, in the entire world, where losing your first game of the season means you are out of contention to be the champion. Read that again ... how utterly stupid is that? Lose one game and you are out. You write as if you think that is a good thing.

As for your second point, that game would be crazy no matter what the CFP looks like. That's college football. That's rivalries. So, let me ask you a question ... with a 12 team CFP, are we going to have more rivalry games or fewer? My job is done.
 
Boise has no shot, and never will. The solution to that is to remove the G5 and create a separate championship, not dilute the current one and ruin the regular season, to give Boise a spot that they still have absolutely a 0% shot at winning. What makes underdogs fun are teams like that taking out a team here or there out of absolute no where. And what makes those games fun is that they typically take a team out of the running for something. That's gone in this scenario. What hasn't happened, and what will never happen, is a team like Boise running through a 12 team playoff to win a title. It's an illusion of a chance. 2018 UCF would have lost. They couldn't have played 3-4 of the best teams back to back and won.
“Boise has no shot and never will.” Neither do/will Rutgers, Vanderbilt, Oregon State, etc.

That said, I’m on record/in favor of G5s having their own playoff.
 
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