Better Job: Arizona State or Nebraska?

[wazzu31]

Here's why it matters ... you have to have OL and DL to win. Most of those really good ones come from the south. They aren't leaving the south to go to the cold weather. Now, that's the deep south, not ASU. Kids from Alabama, Georgia, Florida are not going to spurn southern schools to go to ASU even with the warmer weather.

A west coast doesn’t need to even attempt to touch the south. The Pacific Islands or Americans LDS members more than make up a great Oline and Dline. The difference that the large money gap isn’t recruiting, it is having the money to get and retain staff which is the Pac 12’s primary issue.

 

[Red_Alert]

Here's why it matters ... you have to have OL and DL to win. Most of those really good ones come from the south. They aren't leaving the south to go to the cold weather. Now, that's the deep south, not ASU. Kids from Alabama, Georgia, Florida are not going to spurn southern schools to go to ASU even with the warmer weather.

Because tOSU, Wiscy, Iowa, Penn St don't have lines.

Seriously, drop the weather BS and stick to cornfields.

 

[Brutus]

Some good arguments made so far, to add:

1. ASU has the finances to compete, we just don't allocate or spend them well
2. Nebraska being in the Big10 is a major advantage to ASU being in a dying conference. You take the ASU job and run the risk of not playing in a power conference which would be a big hit to recruiting efforts.
3. Anyone picking ASU because of the "hot coeds" is a dingus

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Here's why it matters ... you have to have OL and DL to win. Most of those really good ones come from the south. They aren't leaving the south to go to the cold weather. Now, that's the deep south, not ASU. Kids from Alabama, Georgia, Florida are not going to spurn southern schools to go to ASU even with the warmer weather.

Here are the schools putting out the most OL talent to the NFL, if you had argued DL, that could be true, but OL. 4 of the top 7 schools are in the Midwest and only 1 school from the South is in the top 7:
1. Alabama
Notable players: Andre Smith, James Carpenter, D.J. Fluker, Cam Robinson, Jonah Williams, Ross Pierschbacher

2. Wisconsin
Notable players: Joe Thomas, Gabe Carimi, Kevin Zeitler, Travis Frederick, Michael Deiter, David Edwards

3. Oklahoma
Notable players: Jammal Brown, Davin Joseph, Phil Loadholt, Trent Williams, Lane Johnson, Orlando Brown, Cody Ford

4. Michigan
Notable players: Jon Jansen, Steve Hutchinson, Jeff Backus, David Baas, Jake Long, Taylor Lewan

5. Ohio State
Notable players: LeCharles Bentley, Nick Mangold, Mike Adams, Jack Mewhort, Taylor Decker, Pat Elflein, Billy Price

6. USC
Notable players: Winston Justice, Ryan Kalil, Sam Baker, Tyron Smith, Matt Kalil, Marcus Martin, Chuma Edoga

7. Notre Dame
Notable players: Luke Petitgout, Jeff Faine, Zack Martin, Nick Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Mike McGlinchey, Quenton Nelson

This doesn't account for last year's draft picks

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Because tOSU, Wiscy, Iowa, Penn St don't have lines.

Seriously, drop the weather BS and stick to cornfields.

They do ... but not as many and not as good. Take Iowa as an example. They have one OL from Florida. The rest are from Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, Kansas, and the like. Look at any of the hundreds of articles that talk about where the best recruits are - hint, it's not from those states, it's from the southern states, plus the rust belt (although that's going in the wrong direction). Now, take a look at Michigan's vaunted OL last year. UGA destroyed them.

CFB is a game of line of scrimmage and depth. If you can't recruit LOS from the south, it's hard to win. And if you don't think the weather is a consideration, I don't know what to tell you. No one in the south is moving north so they can enjoy freezing their asses off 4-5 months out of the year.

You won't change my mind, I won't change yours, so have the last word.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Here are the schools putting out the most OL talent to the NFL, if you had argued DL, that could be true, but OL. 4 of the top 7 schools are in the Midwest and only 1 school from the South is in the top 7:
1. Alabama
Notable players: Andre Smith, James Carpenter, D.J. Fluker, Cam Robinson, Jonah Williams, Ross Pierschbacher

2. Wisconsin
Notable players: Joe Thomas, Gabe Carimi, Kevin Zeitler, Travis Frederick, Michael Deiter, David Edwards

3. Oklahoma
Notable players: Jammal Brown, Davin Joseph, Phil Loadholt, Trent Williams, Lane Johnson, Orlando Brown, Cody Ford

4. Michigan
Notable players: Jon Jansen, Steve Hutchinson, Jeff Backus, David Baas, Jake Long, Taylor Lewan

5. Ohio State
Notable players: LeCharles Bentley, Nick Mangold, Mike Adams, Jack Mewhort, Taylor Decker, Pat Elflein, Billy Price

6. USC
Notable players: Winston Justice, Ryan Kalil, Sam Baker, Tyron Smith, Matt Kalil, Marcus Martin, Chuma Edoga

7. Notre Dame
Notable players: Luke Petitgout, Jeff Faine, Zack Martin, Nick Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Mike McGlinchey, Quenton Nelson

This doesn't account for last year's draft picks

LOL ... you didn't put the next 3 ... UF, FSU, and Texas which are all from the south.

Basically, you have Bama, OU, USC, UF, FSU, and Texas v. Wisky, Michigan, and OSU. Oh, yeah, how did that vaunted OL do against UGA last year. They got blown up.

Also, I did say OL and DL in my post.

Also, we were talking about getting players to move from the south to the north. Are you seriously saying that there aren't more high-end LOS players in the south?

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

A west coast doesn’t need to even attempt to touch the south. The Pacific Islands or Americans LDS members more than make up a great Oline and Dline. The difference that the large money gap isn’t recruiting, it is having the money to get and retain staff which is the Pac 12’s primary issue.

I agree that the Pacific Islanders and the LDS members are the recruiting grounds for LOS in the west. There just isn't the number. Also, aren't those guys staying in the west, not going to freeze their asses off in Nebraska, for the most part?

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

wow, data analysis based on the premise of stalking teenagers online

amazing

Not really sure I know what that means, and I think that is a good thing.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Defensive line is definitely south heavy but not so much on the offensive line. There are plenty of non-south states that produce good offensive linemen

It's a volume issue. Yes, there are some big old midwestern dudes. There just aren't as many of them as there are in the south. Can Nebraska suddenly get all the good ones from the midwest? I doubt that based on the last couple of decades. So, if you can't get good ones to go to the north, what do those teams do?

 

[trojanfan12]

It's not, but it isn't quite as bad as people think. That said, the demographic shift towards more Latinos and Asians is not conducive to an upward trend in CFB talent.

Here's how football recruiting hotbeds have evolved

Georgia has reached the level of Florida and California

andywittry.substack.com

I haven't looked at the link yet, but just based on what I have noticed...I would say that California has fallen off on offensive and defensive linemen, but has stayed about the same on skill position players.

 

[huskers1217]

ASU way hotter chicks.

prove it

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

LOL ... you didn't put the next 3 ... UF, FSU, and Texas which are all from the south.

Basically, you have Bama, OU, USC, UF, FSU, and Texas v. Wisky, Michigan, and OSU. Oh, yeah, how did that vaunted OL do against UGA last year. They got blown up.

Also, I did say OL and DL in my post.

Also, we were talking about getting players to move from the south to the north. Are you seriously saying that there aren't more high-end LOS players in the south?

The top 5 offensive lineman in the Class of 2023:
Francis Mauigoa -- who is from American Samoa and grew up in California
Kadyn Proctor -- Des Moines, Iowa
Samson Okunlola -- Brockton, MA
Luke Montgomery -- Findlay, OH
Charles Jagusah -- Rock Island, IL

Now DL -- yeah, I can see where the South would have way more. OL -- the south has no advantage at all. Do some teams in the South have good OL's? Absolutely. But as you can see from the schools putting the most NFL offensive linemen into the league -- It is all over the board and it is the Midwest schools putting more into the league.

 

[Goldbug]

I've always wanted one of those really big corn-fed Nebraska girls who has a lot of tattoos. Heat in the winter, shade in the summer and moving pictures all year around.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

prove it

Yeah, that's just a given. Look I went to Vanderbilt. I would have put our first string up against Bama, Auburn, and UGA. But we all knew that we had little depth compared to those schools. It's a depth issue. I am sure there are some hit chicks at NE, it's a college after all. You just don't have the depth.

 

[fishinabarrel]

It's a volume issue. Yes, there are some big old midwestern dudes. There just aren't as many of them as there are in the south. Can Nebraska suddenly get all the good ones from the midwest? I doubt that based on the last couple of decades. So, if you can't get good ones to go to the north, what do those teams do?

I thought I've remembered reading that the upper Midwest produces just as much if not more offensive line talent as the south. Like I said, that's just the offensive line, defensive line no one touches the southern states

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

The top 5 offensive lineman in the Class of 2023:
Francis Mauigoa -- who is from American Samoa and grew up in California
Kadyn Proctor -- Des Moines, Iowa
Samson Okunlola -- Brockton, MA
Luke Montgomery -- Findlay, OH
Charles Jagusah -- Rock Island, IL

Now DL -- yeah, I can see where the South would have way more. OL -- the south has no advantage at all. Do some teams in the South have good OL's? Absolutely. But as you can see from the schools putting the most NFL offensive linemen into the league -- It is all over the board and it is the Midwest schools putting more into the league.

I am not saying there aren't good OL in the midwest. There just aren't as many and if you want to build the depth you need, you need to go to where they are. I will use your dataset but go a little deeper.

Top 50 OL in 247 composite for 2023:

- No. 1 player is a Pacific Islander, presumably, and he is playing in Florida (IMG), going to Miami.
- No. 2 player is from Iowa, going to Iowa.
- No. 3 player is from MA, going to Maimi.
- No. 4 player is from VA, going to PSU.
- No. 5 player is from Ohio going to tOSU.
- No. 6 player is from Illinois going to ND.
- No. 7 player is from LA, going to LSU.
- No. 8 player is from NJ, going to ATM.
- No. 9 player is from PA going to PSU.
- No. 10 player is from SC, going to UGA.

Do you see a trend here? Home state kids are staying home, or going south. There is no south > north movement in the top 10. Basically you have 5 northern guys staying home (I'm including VA > PSU in that), and then 5 southern or northern guys staying home or going south.

I assume we can agree that there are way more good OL in the south? No? Okay:

31 of the top 50 are from the south.

Of those from the non-south:
Pacific > Miami
IA > Iowa
MA > Miami
VA > PSU
OH > tOSU
IL > ND
NJ > ATM
PA > PSU
UT > Utah
MO > OU
CT > Bama
OH > tOSU
IL > Bama
OH > tOSU
MD > USCjr
DC > UM
MI > UM
HI > AZ
MO > Mizzou
MI > MSU

Basically, they are all staying home or going south. It's not a big sample set, but I am surprised to not see the Midwest/Northern guys move around in northern states. 8 of the 19 are headed south.

Now let's look at the 31 in the south:
NC > ND
AL > MSU
TX > Nebraska
AZ > ND
NC > ND
SC > Northwestern

6 of the 31 going north. Interestingly, 3 to ND, 1 to Northwestern - perhaps academics? And, ironically, 1 to Nebraska. All the rest are staying in the south.

Remember what the original point was ... that you need LOS to win big, and to do that you have to tap into the southern LOS. It's my belief it's really hard to get the southern OL to move to the north, and that a lot of that has to do with weather and ugly women. I think I have proven that there isn't a south > north migration of OL, and you agreed that was true with DL. What I didn't prove, and can't, is that it is due to weather. I suppose there could be other reasons, but I have seen weather come up in recruiting discussions. And, of course, I am kidding about the women.

 

[rsw626]

Yeah, that's just a given. Look I went to Vanderbilt. I would have put our first string up against Bama, Auburn, and UGA. But we all knew that we had little depth compared to those schools. It's a depth issue. I am sure there are some hit chicks at NE, it's a college after all. You just don't have the depth.

Google Nebraska Coeds...you'll thank me.

 

[outofyourmind]

Google Nebraska Coeds...you'll thank me.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

I am not saying there aren't good OL in the midwest. There just aren't as many and if you want to build the depth you need, you need to go to where they are. I will use your dataset but go a little deeper.

Top 50 OL in 247 composite for 2023:

- No. 1 player is a Pacific Islander, presumably, and he is playing in Florida (IMG), going to Miami.
- No. 2 player is from Iowa, going to Iowa.
- No. 3 player is from MA, going to Maimi.
- No. 4 player is from VA, going to PSU.
- No. 5 player is from Ohio going to tOSU.
- No. 6 player is from Illinois going to ND.
- No. 7 player is from LA, going to LSU.
- No. 8 player is from NJ, going to ATM.
- No. 9 player is from PA going to PSU.
- No. 10 player is from SC, going to UGA.

Do you see a trend here? Home state kids are staying home, or going south. There is no south > north movement in the top 10. Basically you have 5 northern guys staying home (I'm including VA > PSU in that), and then 5 southern or northern guys staying home or going south.

I assume we can agree that there are way more good OL in the south? No? Okay:

31 of the top 50 are from the south.

Of those from the non-south:
Pacific > Miami
IA > Iowa
MA > Miami
VA > PSU
OH > tOSU
IL > ND
NJ > ATM
PA > PSU
UT > Utah
MO > OU
CT > Bama
OH > tOSU
IL > Bama
OH > tOSU
MD > USCjr
DC > UM
MI > UM
HI > AZ
MO > Mizzou
MI > MSU

Basically, they are all staying home or going south. It's not a big sample set, but I am surprised to not see the Midwest/Northern guys move around in northern states. 8 of the 19 are headed south.

Now let's look at the 31 in the south:
NC > ND
AL > MSU
TX > Nebraska
AZ > ND
NC > ND
SC > Northwestern

6 of the 31 going north. Interestingly, 3 to ND, 1 to Northwestern - perhaps academics? And, ironically, 1 to Nebraska. All the rest are staying in the south.

Remember what the original point was ... that you need LOS to win big, and to do that you have to tap into the southern LOS. It's my belief it's really hard to get the southern OL to move to the north, and that a lot of that has to do with weather and ugly women. I think I have proven that there isn't a south > north migration of OL, and you agreed that was true with DL. What I didn't prove, and can't, is that it is due to weather. I suppose there could be other reasons, but I have seen weather come up in recruiting discussions. And, of course, I am kidding about the women.

you just stated 40% of the top 50 recruits are in the North. So why would you have to go to the South to get OL? Essentially with the 5 highest ranked recruits being in the North?

I can agree with the DL part, because DL comes down more to speed and agility -- you are going to get that more in the South. OL -- the Midwest is FILLED with corn fed farm boys who to toss around bales of hay all day and in the North, you don't need good weather to workout all year long.

 

[NinerSpartan]

Yeah, that's just a given. Look I went to Vanderbilt. I would have put our first string up against Bama, Auburn, and UGA. But we all knew that we had little depth compared to those schools. It's a depth issue. I am sure there are some hit chicks at NE, it's a college after all. You just don't have the depth.

LOL