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why OSU and WSU?
bringing a baseball school like OSU to the ACC would be a good thing.
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bringing a baseball school like OSU to the ACC would be a good thing.
Might help their baseball strength but it wouldn’t add revenue at all IMHO.
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they both play in really small stadiums, haven't invested in their programs.. hell they aren't even good academic institutions.. like Boise St is more attractive than the both of them... They got free money for a long time and it looks to be over very soon
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UNC's Cunningham joins call for unequal revenue distribution among ACC schools :: WRALSportsFan.com
North Carolina athletic director Bubba Cunningham told 99.9 The Fan's "The OG" that unequal revenue distribution among the ACC's member schools is becoming "critical."
www.wralsportsfan.com
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I predicted UNC would join the circus as soon as the FSU news hit.
Clemson, FSU and UNC will be talking to each other sooner rather than later and all three will reach out to the SEC under the table. At that point they just have to figure how many schools it will take to break the GOR and then they will start will actively trying to find that number of homes in the SEC & B1G.
If they can pull it off they will kill the ACC and the SEC and B1G will be adding about 4 schools each.
The reason this is happening now is because I think FSU, Clemson and UNC think that Washington and Oregon to the B1G for a lower revenue split has legs and they want to slow that decision and throw alternative options out there. Basically they soon will be in a race to see if they can convince the B1G to take ACC schools instead with the kicker being potential ND (which at that point will have to join the B1G or SEC or their other sports will suffer).
If these schools can't pull this off now they potentially are looking at a decade of dysfunction in the ACC and within 5 years a revenue discrepancy that is going to hurt their competitiveness.
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shoot tbh.. if i were the other ACC schools.. And KNOW that the best hope they have is the Big12 offering them a deal..I'd stay.. let 3 schools fight for it's freedom.. then collect on that sweet exit/media deal buyouts.. Which will be more than what UT and ou paid, imo.
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N
ACC and the PAC are totally different animals. PAC has no GOR to worry about, while the ACC is locked solid.
Nah ... GOR is rock solid. They are screwed. Time would be better spent figuring out things in-house. SEC won't take that call ... they want nothing to do with until the GOR is resolved, which won't happen. SEC has better things to do for the next 5-10 years.
ACC and the PAC are totally different animals. PAC has no GOR to worry about, while the ACC is locked solid.
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You keep saying the GOR is rock solid and I wouldn’t disagree if we are talking one to three schools as the others would rally and enforce.
The question is how many schools does it take leaving to invalidate it?
Or how many schools does it take to vote it out?
When we are talking massive amounts of money there are moves that can be made if there are outs in the contract.
Example if it takes 7 schools leaving to invalidate the GOR because the league ceases to exist by definition then it’s plausible they could potentially pull it off.
The FSU has stated his school will be working from a 30 million dollar a year deficit to SEC schools. They gonna try everything they can to kill that bitch.
The SEC absolutely takes that call but they answer will be just let us know when you get out of the GOR. It won’t be the SEC’s mess just like OU and UT GORs weren’t their mess.
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Boise State is a lot lower in academic rankings.
Both Oregon State and Washington State beat Boise in their last games.
Oregon states small stadium is still larger than Boise state
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I keep saying that it is because it is. I don't get why you guys keep acting like it's some minor problem or contract that can easily be broken. It's rock fucking solid. I've stated why here many times, so I am not going to do it again. But the GOR is doing exactly what it was designed to do ... arguing to a court that you should be able to violate it because it is doing exactly what it was designed to do will get you laughed out of court.
I don't know the exact answer to this but have read at least 2 articles that seem to indicate there isn't a provision in it for dissolution of the conference. That said, it would seem to me that it would take at least a majority, so you are looking at 8 ... there are 15 signatories to the GOR.
So, assuming that you could dissolve the league that would dissolve the GOR, who are the 8?
Not sure what ND would do, as they aren't going to go to a conference.
Ones that would likely want to go: UNC, FSU, Clemson. Those are the only 3 that would likely have landing spots.
No one else in the ACC has a landing spot anywhere else where they can make more money. There aren't 4 others that will want to leave. The SEC and the B1G don't want UVA, VaTech, NCSU, Miami or name the 5th.
As for the SEC, I don't understand why you guys think they want to continue to expand. They have the perfect fit right now. Tons of money, two new blue bloods, a great new contract, great new scheduling, and expanded CFP. It will take years for them to get all this pulled together and the last thing they want to do is deal with bringing in 2 more teams (or 4 or 6), especially when it is questionable that those teams bring that much to the table from a financial perspective.
Keep in mind, there is no advantage to most of the SEC teams to bring in more teams that will likely beat them ... why would the Miss teams, Arky, Auburn, USCjr, Vandy want more really good teams meaning there would be less of a chance they could have a winning record and/or get into the CFP. Everyone keeps reading these "super-conference" articles that never articulate why you would want a super-conference. At some point, all the schools say, timeout, we don't need to bring in 4 or 6 more schools ... we like the new schedule, we like the fact that 4 or 5 of 16 will get into the CFP, we like that most of us will go bowling. If we bring in more teams, 2 of whom are better than us, we just get further behind.
Quit thinking that expansion is always a good thing, and is always going to happen. Going to 16 was a no-brainer for the SEC. Going any further makes no sense.
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What is the Pac-12 actually selling? Ratings without USC, UCLA explain league's struggle to land rights deal
The Pac-12's inability to land a media rights deal is reaching a concerning point
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Here is the breakdown on the above;What is the Pac-12 actually selling? Ratings without USC, UCLA explain league's struggle to land rights deal
The Pac-12's inability to land a media rights deal is reaching a concerning point
1 game in 3 years over 4mm
2 games over 3mm
All 3 of those had Oregon:
- 2 OU vs Wash
- OU vs OSU (2022)
It’s rare that the OU vs OSU game is going to have the stakes last year’s game had so you basically have one game that has the potential to break 4mm in viewers.
There just aren’t eyeballs to buy anywhere in the PAC that doesn’t include USC and UCLA.
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To play devil's advocate, teams that are good or in playoff race will get ratings/views. If a Pac12 team can be in playoff picture, they will have 4 million viewership games similar to TCU in the Big12.
With less competition, a team will find it easier to go undefeated and be in the mix.
With less competition, a team will find it easier to go undefeated and be in the mix.
You just described a G5!
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Some thoughts on my end:
1. We still don't haven't seen the GOR from the ACC. We have no idea what it states. However, as we have discussed, I am leaning your direction and even more so now. I think the FSU AD's comments about lawyers have a way out has everyone speculating but that may just be a bluff. All the media articles about Clemson and FSU leaving the ACC seem to be very speculative and are driving hits so I am not confident in anything happening or that there is a way out of the GOR. If it is like the Big12 GOR, they are not getting out until at least 2032 (the buy-out will be less per year just because it is a more shitty contract than the Big12's)
2. Based on recent numbers posted, NC State is more valuable on views than UNC. Why so high on UNC? Granted, I feel into UNC trap but ACC numbers show Miami, Louisville, Syracuse, and NC State all ahead of UNC in viewership. I get the vibe that UNC is on the list because it is the flagship school of North Carolina which is a new region for both the B1G and SEC
3. The B1G adding FSU and maybe even Miami is possibly a recruiting threat to the SEC, don't underestimate the SEC adding one or both schools simply for defensive reasons (I think if the SEC has 2 out of 3 of the Florida powers, they own Florida so that won't be a big deal but if the B1G adds both schools, the B1G now owns Florida).
4. I 100% agree with your assessment that the SEC is staying at 16 for now. I would be very surprised if they added anyone in the next 5 years. There is a lot of media hype and speculation out there similar to last year right now. I mean someone was even saying the Arizona schools are talking to the SEC. Conferences and teams talk, often. It doesn't mean that a school is going to leave.
If someone approaches the SEC about joining the conference, I don't think the SEC just shoots them down without a meeting. That is the case even with a Sunbelt team or even an obscure team. I think the SEC is diplomatic enough to at least entertain their argument.
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NU C v. NCSU
- NC State — 881K
- Purdue -870K
- California — 857K
- North Carolina — 849K
But when you look at the numbers below, you can see why I LOL when people talk about the SEC and the B1G wanting 8 ACC teams. Their viewership is truly a joke.
Here is the ACC for 2022:
10 Clemson — 2.59M
15 Florida State — 2.03M
-------------- cut off for meaningful teams
43 NC State — 881K
46 North Carolina — 849K
48 Syracuse — 841K
49 Georgia Tech — 837K
56 Pittsburgh — 650K
59 Miami FL— 608K
-------------- cut off for 8 teams
60 Wake Forest — 523K
63 Louisville — 496K
70 Boston College — 322K
76 Virginia Tech — 264K
79 Virginia — 237K
91 Duke — 115.7K
With regard to recruiting, schools won't take a 5-10 million per year haircut to "defend" recruiting in Florida. And, FWIW, UGA already owns Florida recruiting. For 5-10 million more, they can all increase their recruiting budgets by a few million, and that would be worth more.
Finally, all the hype is coming from people here and other fans. I've not really read a real publication or writer who doesn't point out that FSU is bluffing and that the GOR is rock solid.
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I mean, if you want to entertain all of the teams that have been rumored to have talk to the SEC since 2010, I have heard at least all of the following (there is probably more):
UNC and Duke together - This happened when Maryland left for the B1G and ACC was struggling. It also happened after OU and Texas. I am NOT sure how serious either party were in the discussions.
Clemson and FSU - All of the time pretty much. This is why I think they would target the SEC if they left the ACC
Louisville
UCF
Memphis
Oregon and Washington this past year
Notre Dame
Ohio State in 2020 - It was more in relation to the B1G not playing and Ohio State wanting to enter the SEC for a single year although a long-term relationship was discussed. IMO, Ohio State was using this to put pressure on the B1G to play in 2020. It would have been a great what if situation but there was very little traction or serious effort to move forward. Ohio State talked about bringing Michigan (provided Michigan doesn't violate state laws), Penn State, and Nebraska for the 2020 season.
USC - Perhaps to get numbers for their move to the B1G analysis as I don't think either party was serious. I also heard this one was in the 2021 timeframe.
West Virginia - Out of everyone on the list, this came the closest to actually happening in 2011. From what I heard, the SEC wanted a team for the SEC East to match the West. West Virginia would have likely happened if Missouri didn't.
Baylor
Oklahoma State
Houston
Tulane
Arizona
Arizona State
Virginia Tech
NC State
Troy
Most of these conversations were likely never very serious or didn't get too far down the line. Sometimes teams just investigate to put together analysis on the market and the marketability of their program. Most of these teams also talked to the other conferences as well. The only one that I heard got very serious was West Virginia back in 2011. There are a lot of G5 and even FCS schools that will reach out to leagues like the SEC to just vet how they stack up in marketability and gaps in their "resume." Sometimes it is not even about getting into a league like the SEC but how to make them attractive for a league like the Big12, American, etc. or whether a move to FBS is worth it.
There was some very serious talks back in 1990-1991 with FSU and Texas based on stories from the time. Arkansas and South Carolina almost weren't the two expansion teams. Ironically, Texas A&M messed up Texas' move to the SEC in 1991.
To my knowledge, Florida State in 1991 was the only program to ever turn down an unofficial SEC invite (invite was never official but if FSU had interest, they would have started the process).
From what I gather, the SEC (and pretty much all of the conferences) have never started conversations first with a school for legal reasons.
UNC and Duke together - This happened when Maryland left for the B1G and ACC was struggling. It also happened after OU and Texas. I am NOT sure how serious either party were in the discussions.
Clemson and FSU - All of the time pretty much. This is why I think they would target the SEC if they left the ACC
Louisville
UCF
Memphis
Oregon and Washington this past year
Notre Dame
Ohio State in 2020 - It was more in relation to the B1G not playing and Ohio State wanting to enter the SEC for a single year although a long-term relationship was discussed. IMO, Ohio State was using this to put pressure on the B1G to play in 2020. It would have been a great what if situation but there was very little traction or serious effort to move forward. Ohio State talked about bringing Michigan (provided Michigan doesn't violate state laws), Penn State, and Nebraska for the 2020 season.
USC - Perhaps to get numbers for their move to the B1G analysis as I don't think either party was serious. I also heard this one was in the 2021 timeframe.
West Virginia - Out of everyone on the list, this came the closest to actually happening in 2011. From what I heard, the SEC wanted a team for the SEC East to match the West. West Virginia would have likely happened if Missouri didn't.
Baylor
Oklahoma State
Houston
Tulane
Arizona
Arizona State
Virginia Tech
NC State
Troy
Most of these conversations were likely never very serious or didn't get too far down the line. Sometimes teams just investigate to put together analysis on the market and the marketability of their program. Most of these teams also talked to the other conferences as well. The only one that I heard got very serious was West Virginia back in 2011. There are a lot of G5 and even FCS schools that will reach out to leagues like the SEC to just vet how they stack up in marketability and gaps in their "resume." Sometimes it is not even about getting into a league like the SEC but how to make them attractive for a league like the Big12, American, etc. or whether a move to FBS is worth it.
There was some very serious talks back in 1990-1991 with FSU and Texas based on stories from the time. Arkansas and South Carolina almost weren't the two expansion teams. Ironically, Texas A&M messed up Texas' move to the SEC in 1991.
To my knowledge, Florida State in 1991 was the only program to ever turn down an unofficial SEC invite (invite was never official but if FSU had interest, they would have started the process).
From what I gather, the SEC (and pretty much all of the conferences) have never started conversations first with a school for legal reasons.
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Dennis Dodd (he seems to get stuff wrong), Josh Pate, On3, and others have all made comments about FSU is big $$$ and brand, they can find a way. I actually posted some of these videos in Clemson/FSU thread.
Agree on Big/Little brother deal.
I do think seeing games such as Alabama vs. Clemson or Alabama vs. FSU would drive greater viewership and I think that is the value you might be missing. People are not watching Clemson vs. Wake Forest but Clemson vs. SEC Schools are intriguing.
However, I agree with your overall sentiment and I agree that the SEC isn't expanding anytime soon (or at least I would be surprised if they do).
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why are you talking about oklahoma?
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look up the undefeated teams going into BCS or playoff and see where they came from. not many from the Pac compared to others.