Memphis To The Big 12?

[ericd7633]

We agree with adding just two 4 corners. In a perfect world the B12 would add 2 and wait for the ACC (which yes could be in for Over a decade) to add schools. In no way shape or form is Memphis the biggest basketball brand that’s realistic for the B12 to add. I‘d argue the Memphis bball brand may not even be top 5 of who the B12 can realistically add.

There is zero reason for the B12 to start loading up on G5’s. Hell you Could make an argument the only team the B12 would have solidly added today is BYU. I’m sure there is some irritation that UCF, Houston and Cincy were added given what we know today with the PAC and ACC.

After Arizona, out of the schools that have football and basketball, Memphis basketball is a bigger brand than any of them on the bball or football side IMO. Obviously, if you're looking at Gonzaga basketball, that's way bigger. Who's a bigger football/bball brand that the Big 12 could add? I'm not including Oregon or Washington in with that.

I agree the B12 shouldn't load up on G5's. But Memphis isn't your typical G5 team. And I would agree knowing what we know now, adding UCF, Cincy and Houston, in hindsight looks like an error, but adding them gave it some stability and you could argue the stability now is what makes them attractive from a realignment standpoint.

 

[ralphiewvu]

After Arizona, out of the schools that have football and basketball, Memphis basketball is a bigger brand than any of them on the bball or football side IMO. Obviously, if you're looking at Gonzaga basketball, that's way bigger. Who's a bigger football/bball brand that the Big 12 could add? I'm not including Oregon or Washington in with that.

I agree the B12 shouldn't load up on G5's. But Memphis isn't your typical G5 team. And I would agree knowing what we know now, adding UCF, Cincy and Houston, in hindsight looks like an error, but adding them gave it some stability and you could argue the stability now is what makes them attractive from a realignment standpoint.

You and others are going to laugh and that’s fine but I’m talking realistic adds from both P5 and G5 when I say Memphis isn’t a top 5 brand that could be added.
Realistic Bigger Bball Brands:
Uconn
Gonzaga
Arizona
Duke
Louisville

And for the record I want neither Zaga or UConn. No team should be added for 1 sport only. UConn football has been horrible recently too.

 

[ericd7633]

That analogy is absolute crap. Sorry DC, but you are trying to say teams like Oklahoma State and KState are the same as Memphis and SDSU.

Thats unmitigated horse shit.

I don't think he's that far off. I also wouldn't say Oklahoma State is a bottom tier P5. But when you compare Kansas State's tv ratings from last year to Memphis' in 2019 when they won the AAC, there isn't that much of a difference and that's with Kansas State being able to play OU and Texas. Neither of the 3 schools can carry an audience on their own, which is what I think he was getting at.

 

[ericd7633]

You and others are going to laugh and that’s fine but I’m talking realistic adds from both P5 and G5 when I say Memphis isn’t a top 5 brand that could be added.
Realistic Bigger Bball Brands:
Uconn
Gonzaga
Arizona
Duke
Louisville

And for the record I want neither Zaga or UConn. No team should be added for 1 sport only. UConn football has been horrible recently too.

Yeah, all of those are bigger brands for sure, but I don't think Duke and UL are realistic. And I don't think Uconn will come. Gonzaga and AZ for sure. But Gonzaga doesn't have football. I was talking in terms of programs that have football and bball. Basically, I think Memphis basketball has a bigger brand than ASU football/bball, Utah football/bball, Colorado football/bball and AZ football. So out of them and the 4 corners, Memphis bball is the 2nd biggest brand IMO out of the 10 entities.

 

[duckboy33]

Memphis is a unique school though. They aren't a normal G5 school. They are a historically great basketball program, and have been a steady football program the last decade or so. Obviously grabbing Oregon/Washington/Arizona is better, but I'd rather add them over Utah/ASU IMO. You only bring in Utah and ASU if you've already decided to go with AZ and Colorado IMO to keep the travel partner/rivalry.

Memphis over Utah/ASU is insane IMO

 

[ralphiewvu]

I don't think he's that far off. I also wouldn't say Oklahoma State is a bottom tier P5. But when you compare Kansas State's tv ratings from last year to Memphis' in 2019 when they won the AAC, there isn't that much of a difference and that's with Kansas State being able to play OU and Texas. Neither of the 3 schools can carry an audience on their own, which is what I think he was getting at.

TV ratings? We are talking competitiveness on the athletic field. If we’re talking ratings remove KState with Kansas basketball and see how we do. It preposterous to state teams like Junior and purple are the same as any G5. Yeah they ain’t the blue bloods we’d all love to have but they aren’t Memphis ether.

 

[ralphiewvu]

Yeah, all of those are bigger brands for sure, but I don't think Duke and UL are realistic. And I don't think Uconn will come. Gonzaga and AZ for sure. But Gonzaga doesn't have football. I was talking in terms of programs that have football and bball. Basically, I think Memphis basketball has a bigger brand than ASU football/bball, Utah football/bball, Colorado football/bball and AZ football. So out of them and the 4 corners, Memphis bball is the 2nd biggest brand IMO out of the 10 entities.

It’s laughable you think nether UL or Duke is realistic. Id bet anything the B1G or SEC isn’t taking ether. Certainly not UL.

Memphis bball is no slouch. But thinking that trumps any P5 overall is insanely naive

 

[CorpRebel]

 

[ericd7633]

Memphis over Utah/ASU is insane IMO

ASU has underachieved forever. They have great potential, but haven't been able to ever unlock it. Utah is in a great spot from a football perspective, and that alone is a great reason to add them, but they can't really carry a national audience either. Out of the realistic options Utah would be 3rd in my pecking order.

 

[ericd7633]

TV ratings? We are talking competitiveness on the athletic field. If we’re talking ratings remove KState with Kansas basketball and see how we do. It preposterous to state teams like Junior and purple are the same as any G5. Yeah they ain’t the blue bloods we’d all love to have but they aren’t Memphis ether.

This round of realignment isn't about competitiveness. If it was teams like Texas and USC wouldn't have been offered to move and a team like Oregon would have. Heck probably Utah too over USC. I misunderstood @Deep Creek if he was taking about competitiveness. I thought he was talking about brand power/identity, which in turn translates to ratings. Part of why I think Memphis makes a ton of sense is because the B12 could become an absurd bball conference. I get football moves the needle, but having the far and away best bball conference is something that can be monetized.

 

[ericd7633]

It’s laughable you think nether UL or Duke is realistic. Id bet anything the B1G or SEC isn’t taking ether. Certainly not UL.

Memphis bball is no slouch. But thinking that trumps any P5 overall is insanely naive

It's not realistic in 2023, which is all I've been discussing. Down the road, sure, if the ACC breaks up UL is a great option. As is Duke. Depending on how big these conferences get, at some point, the networks aren't going to be able to subsidize all these teams though. I think the ACC will stay together, in the end.

 

[duckboy33]

ASU has underachieved forever. They have great potential, but haven't been able to ever unlock it. Utah is in a great spot from a football perspective, and that alone is a great reason to add them, but they can't really carry a national audience either. Out of the realistic options Utah would be 3rd in my pecking order.

No doubt that ASU has underachieved. But I'm still taking them over Memphis every day of the week. None of the teams we are discussing can carry a national audience in football. If they did, we'd be talking about them joining the Big Ten or SEC. Utah has made great investments in football and will be an extremely competitive and relevant team for the foreseeable future. They are miles ahead of a school like Memphis IMO. And that's acknowledging that Memphis had a pretty good run over the last decade. Much better than what they've been historically.

 

[ralphiewvu]

This round of realignment isn't about competitiveness. If it was teams like Texas and USC wouldn't have been offered to move and a team like Oregon would have. Heck probably Utah too over USC. I misunderstood @Deep Creek if he was taking about competitiveness. I thought he was talking about brand power/identity, which in turn translates to ratings. Part of why I think Memphis makes a ton of sense is because the B12 could become an absurd bball conference. I get football moves the needle, but having the far and away best bball conference is something that can be monetized.

Disagree, it’s still about competitiveness. But markets don’t matter as much.

B12 already is an absurd bball conference. Adding Memphis won’t transform it into something different. There are plenty of better programs for all sports that are a realistic get then them.

 

[ralphiewvu]

It's not realistic in 2023, which is all I've been discussing. Down the road, sure, if the ACC breaks up UL is a great option. As is Duke. Depending on how big these conferences get, at some point, the networks aren't going to be able to subsidize all these teams though. I think the ACC will stay together, in the end.

Sure networks aren’t going to subsidize everyone which is exactly why the B12 doesn’t need to go scooping up every and all G5’s. No one is saying these teams are available this year, but even a decade later these teams will Be. Neither of the Big 2 are taking Louisville. Louisville is a perfect candidate for the B12. Duke May get a lifeline but honestly I could see both UNC and NCSt getting picked up before Duke. I don’t think the ACC stays together after this GoR what so ever.

 

[CoalTrain]

Good Lort The Big12 is gonna have 237 teams in the Big Dance…

And.. that’s gonna mean mo money,

 

[Deep Creek]

That analogy is absolute crap. Sorry DC, but you are trying to say teams like Oklahoma State and KState are the same as Memphis and SDSU.

Thats unmitigated horse shit.

Nope, that wasn’t what I was trying to convey. Let’s use the four you mentioned as examples. As far as attracting eyeballs to reach the 4 million+ number, none of those four can draw that kind of viewership numbers if they are playing similar teams.

But, I will defend the idea that the bottom of the P5s aren’t a hell of a lot better than the top of the G5s. Hell, some of those “brand names” haven’t been much better than the top G5 teams lately either. But they still draw eyeballs and have the cache…even when they suck.

 

[Deep Creek]

This round of realignment isn't about competitiveness. If it was teams like Texas and USC wouldn't have been offered to move and a team like Oregon would have. Heck probably Utah too over USC. I misunderstood @Deep Creek if he was taking about competitiveness. I thought he was talking about brand power/identity, which in turn translates to ratings. Part of why I think Memphis makes a ton of sense is because the B12 could become an absurd bball conference. I get football moves the needle, but having the far and away best bball conference is something that can be monetized.

I wasn’t referring to competitiveness at all. (But I’d take the limes of a Cincy if they were playing Rutgers, BC or Vandy from a competitiveness standpoint.). I was strictly talking about the ability to draw the highest viewership regardless of how goid the football team has performed.) Hell, OU and Texas did finish that well in the Big 12 last year…but you didn’t see the SEC willing to add K-State and TCU!

 

[ralphiewvu]

Nope, that wasn’t what I was trying to convey. Let’s use the four you mentioned as examples. As far as attracting eyeballs to reach the 4 million+ number, none of those four can draw that kind of viewership numbers if they are playing similar teams.

But, I will defend the idea that the bottom of the P5s aren’t a hell of a lot better than the top of the G5s. Hell, some of those “brand names” haven’t been much better than the top G5 teams lately either. But they still draw eyeballs and have the cache…even when they suck.

Agree to disagree. If they are winning games and have a number next to their name they’ll attract more eyeballs. Fair or foul that’s more likely to happen for a P5. Loading up on G5’s makes perception of said conference as a G5. The B12 doesn’t need to grab Memphis and SDSU and Uconn and SMU. The better play is getting established P5’s such as Arizona, ASU and Colorado no matter how awful they’ve been Recently.

 

[duckboy33]

Agree to disagree. If they are winning games and have a number next to their name they’ll attract more eyeballs. Fair or foul that’s more likely to happen for a P5. Loading up on G5’s makes perception of said conference as a G5. The B12 doesn’t need to grab Memphis and SDSU and Uconn and SMU. The better play is getting established P5’s such as Arizona, ASU and Colorado no matter how awful they’ve been Recently.

Agree. That’s why I don’t understand the opposition to Utah. They are by far the best football program that the Big 12 can add right now. And it’s more than just the success they had the last two years. They’ve made major investments in their infrastructure that should give them staying power. They should be the top target of the big 12 IMO

And for some reason people are talking about adding Memphis or UConn over them. It seems insane to me.

 

[Deep Creek]

Agree to disagree. If they are winning games and have a number next to their name they’ll attract more eyeballs. Fair or foul that’s more likely to happen for a P5. Loading up on G5’s makes perception of said conference as a G5. The B12 doesn’t need to grab Memphis and SDSU and Uconn and SMU. The better play is getting established P5’s such as Arizona, ASU and Colorado no matter how awful they’ve been Recently.

I'm agreeing with you on the point the Big 12 doesn't need to be grabbing a bunch of G5s like you mentioned. I think they only one of the last four that brought much to the "viewership" table was BYU...and only then because of the size of the LDS church. Houston damn sure doesn't bring those numbers and I doubt Cincy will unless they have seasons like they did a couple of years ago. Same for UCF. Even if they are in Florida and huge enrollment wise, they don't draw the eyeballs necessary to get the media to throw more money into the deal. Just like Houston didn't add any more eyeballs to the conference that TCU, Baylor and Tech didn't already have.

I think where we disagree is in adding the four corner P5 schools. While they might bring more eyeballs than BYU, Cincy, UCF and Houston does, they still aren't an "anchor" store that would bring the amount necessary to replace the ones Texas and OU took with them to the SEC. Even collectively the four doesn't bring what the two took.

Let's play this out and say they even went to 16 and included the four corner schools.
Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, West Virginia, BYU, UCF, Houston, Cincy, Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah. Tell me which one of those ALONE do you think would command 4 million+ viewers in games? All of them MIGHT if they had late season success like TCU did last year. But I'm talking just run of the mill normal viewership. They just aren't going to bring the television money with them by themselves. (The B1G and SEC wouldn't either if they didn't have their "anchors.")

I'm not even talking about quality football or basketball. Collectively, that list is a very good group and might have the most parity of any conference. Be fun to watch. Heck, the case could be made that group would be just as good or better than the Big 2 in the middle and bottom.