More Michigan Cheating

[Across The Field]

Using footage that exists of games is not illegal. Michigan found a grey area and exploited it. I see this no differently than the satellite camps in recruiting. Michigan found a way to go around the country and host these camps, side-stepping NCAA rules and the NCAA ended up having to change the rule to stop it.

Are you just learning about what happened? You do realize the issue goes well beyond this, right?

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

So, again, just to make sure I understand you correctly - you admit he did wrong. He did all of this stuff that violates NCAA guidelines, he did it for multiple years, he has been an employee of the university, yet nobody there knew anything about it? You really are that level of MnB delusional?

I know why Tressel was fired and why the NCAA got so pissed, but there were plenty of people saying he was dirty because of what the players were doing. Ironic since it's now fully legal.

I played football through HS. I played DE and OG. Let me guess, you're gonna tell me you were a 4 years starter in college somewhere and that's why you have this idiotic, smug disposition?

You played football before and you think trying to steal signs is crazy? Come on now. I don't believe a word of that.

And yes, it is blatant this guy was doing this and trying to crack the hand signals of opposing teams. That being said -- teams switch their hand signals on a week to week basis. Teams line up for a play, then like OSU, would wait for the defense to show, and change the play call.

I can say with certainty -- if anyone on the staff knew about this and how he was using his personal credit card to buy tickets -- they should be fired and the team would be better off.

That is the sticking point for me -- if this were something directed by UM and Harbaugh -- there is ZERO CHANCE, they let the guy pay for the tickets like that. This screams of a guy making $55k trying to make a name for himself and skirting the rules.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

LMAO holy hell dude, wake up. The program is under NCAA investigation at this moment. The guy is suspended and deleted all of his social media (yet forgot to scrub his public Venmo transactions which paint quite the interesting picture). EVERY STAFF isn't going out there doing this kind of shit. Your program is and has been for the past 3 seasons, which just so happen to line up to the time that michigan miraculously got their heads our of their asses and became nationally relevant again. But sure, nothing to see there.

LMAO holy hell dude, wake up. The program is under NCAA investigation at this moment. The guy is suspended and deleted all of his social media (yet forgot to scrub his public Venmo transactions which paint quite the interesting picture). EVERY STAFF isn't going out there doing this kind of shit. Your program is and has been for the past 3 seasons, which just so happen to line up to the time that michigan miraculously got their heads our of their asses and became nationally relevant again. But sure, nothing to see there.

For the love of god. It is like talking to a child with you.

You and MnB should have your own UM/OSU Homer thread and you guys can go back and forth about how great each program is.

Go look and see what the former college players and former NFL players are saying about this. The hand signals team use each game change, the players giving the signals change each game. The indicators used to signal play calls change each game..
Why do they change every game? Because every team is trying to do the same thing and figure out the signs and signals a team uses.

This guy definitely broke a rule, but the rule wasn't put in place to stop teams from stealing signs. It was put in place because many schools don't have the budget to send scouts to opposing teams games. It was made to level the playing field.

So yes he broke a rule and he should be punished. Same for any coach on staff who knew about it. But I'd bet my life the top coaches knew nothing, because there isn't a chance in hell they'd allow a guy to pay with his personal credit card.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Are you just learning about what happened? You do realize the issue goes well beyond this, right?

Sure, I've seen no explicit violation of NCAA rules in any of the accusations or evidence suggested.

People unaffiliated with the university going to games, even if their ticket is purchased by the University in any way, is not illegal. People recording those games and giving the footage to Michigan is not illegal. Michigan using that information to sign steal is not illegal. Sign stealing, in of itself, is not illegal.

Michigan openly exploited a loophole in the rule. That's what this is.

 

[Huskers4me]

Jim Harbaugh>= <Bill Bilichick

 

[Across The Field]

You played football before and you think trying to steal signs is crazy? Come on now. I don't believe a word of that.

And yes, it is blatant this guy was doing this and trying to crack the hand signals of opposing teams. That being said -- teams switch their hand signals on a week to week basis. Teams line up for a play, then like OSU, would wait for the defense to show, and change the play call.

I can say with certainty -- if anyone on the staff knew about this and how he was using his personal credit card to buy tickets -- they should be fired and the team would be better off.

That is the sticking point for me -- if this were something directed by UM and Harbaugh -- there is ZERO CHANCE, they let the guy pay for the tickets like that. This screams of a guy making $55k trying to make a name for himself and skirting the rules.

If this part was true, why would he have been spending thousands and thousands of dollars every fall? Again - how was he doing that on a $55k a year salary? Tickets around midfield, travel, hotels, meals, all of that for a dude who is probably barely clearing maybe $2500 a month after taxes? I'm sure you are praying there is no paper trail uncovered that ties back to michigan.

 

[Across The Field]

Sure, I've seen no explicit violation of NCAA rules in any of the accusations or evidence suggested.

People unaffiliated with the university going to games, even if their ticket is purchased by the University in any way, is not illegal. People recording those games and giving the footage to Michigan is not illegal. Michigan using that information to sign steal is not illegal. Sign stealing, in of itself, is not illegal.

Michigan openly exploited a loophole in the rule. That's what this is.

Uh, yes, it is illegal. That's why there is an investigation.

Sources: U-M staffer bought tickets at 11 schools

Suspended Michigan staffer Connor Stalions, who is at the center of the NCAA's sign-stealing probe, purchased tickets in his own name for more than 30 games over the past three years at 11 different Big Ten schools, multiple sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

The first NCAA rule in question is scouting in opposing stadiums, which has been in place since 1994. The second potential rule being broken, evidence of which had not been reported prior, could mean that Michigan violated Article 11 subsection H of the NCAA football rulebook: "Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited.

 

[Across The Field]

For the love of god. It is like talking to a child with you.

You and MnB should have your own UM/OSU Homer thread and you guys can go back and forth about how great each program is.

Go look and see what the former college players and former NFL players are saying about this. The hand signals team use each game change, the players giving the signals change each game. The indicators used to signal play calls change each game..
Why do they change every game? Because every team is trying to do the same thing and figure out the signs and signals a team uses.

This guy definitely broke a rule, but the rule wasn't put in place to stop teams from stealing signs. It was put in place because many schools don't have the budget to send scouts to opposing teams games. It was made to level the playing field.

So yes he broke a rule and he should be punished. Same for any coach on staff who knew about it. But I'd bet my life the top coaches knew nothing, because there isn't a chance in hell they'd allow a guy to pay with his personal credit card.

Dude I said literally nothing at all about OSU. Stop being so dramatic.

I get it. You are shitting bricks about your program and what's potentially going to happen.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Uh, yes, it is illegal. That's why there is an investigation.

Sources: U-M staffer bought tickets at 11 schools

Suspended Michigan staffer Connor Stalions, who is at the center of the NCAA's sign-stealing probe, purchased tickets in his own name for more than 30 games over the past three years at 11 different Big Ten schools, multiple sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

Here's the rule:

Notice the language "institutional staff member"

An institutional staff member from Michigan never attended any of these games. Sorry to burst your media-driven bubble.

 

[Across The Field]

Here's the rule:

Notice the language "institutional staff member"

An institutional staff member from Michigan never attended any of these games. Sorry to burst your media-driven bubble.

The dude has been an official employee of the university for a year and a half and he was still doing this shit up until last weekend. Did you not know that?

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

The dude has been an official employee of the university for a year and a half and he was still doing this shit up until last weekend. Did you not know that?

"that dude" didn't attend the games. It very clearly states in the report that he asked other people, unaffiliated with the University, to do so. And there is absolutely no rule in the NCAA rulebook that says you can't buy regular people tickets.

 

[Across The Field]

"that dude" didn't attend the games. It very clearly states in the report that he asked other people, unaffiliated with the University, to do so. And there is absolutely no rule in the NCAA rulebook that says you can't buy regular people tickets.

This is some impressive mental gymnastics you're doing. I guess if you need to cheat to win, you've gotta be able to rationalize it somehow.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

This is some impressive mental gymnastics you're doing. I guess if you need to cheat to win, you've gotta be able to rationalize it somehow.

It isn't. It's called a loophole and it seems very purposeful. I understand that people don't like that the loophole exists, but...oh well I guess.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

It won't. At most, the kid gets fired and lands at the Ravens and the NCAA changes their rule to be more specific.

 

[Across The Field]

It isn't. It's called a loophole and it seems very purposeful. I understand that people don't like that the loophole exists, but...oh well I guess.

I need to just clarify - you're saying michigan found a loophole. So that would mean the coaching staff knew what he was doing, right?

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I need to just clarify - you're saying michigan found a loophole. So that would mean the coaching staff knew what he was doing, right?

So I don't know who knew. Certainly at some level, some people knew. And it was so blatantly done (names attached to ticket orders) that there was no attempt to hide what they were doing. So it's my opinion that whatever group of staffers doing this didn't believe they were breaking the NCAA rule...or there would have been an attempt to cover tracks.

If I had to guess, Michigan hired this analyst specifically to do this job. Steal signals; which is legal and I'm assuming most good teams have some version of this on their staff. And whatever group of people were on his team came up with some version of this plan.

 

[Across The Field]

So I don't know who knew. Certainly at some level, some people knew. And it was so blatantly done (names attached to ticket orders) that there was no attempt to hide what they were doing. So it's my opinion that whatever group of staffers doing this didn't believe they were breaking the NCAA rule...or there would have been an attempt to cover tracks.

If I had to guess, Michigan hired this analyst specifically to do this job. Steal signals; which is legal and I'm assuming most good teams have some version of this on their staff. And whatever group of people were on his team came up with some version of this plan.

So you also know in the eyes of the NCAA, the responsibility falls on the head coach for the actions of the staff. However Harbs is coming out saying he had zero knowledge of anything being done by this guy you claim was hired specifically for this role. How can that be? If OSU fans know anything, it's that the NCAA doesn't take kindly to coaches lying to them about knowing things.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

So you also know in the eyes of the NCAA, the responsibility falls on the head coach for the actions of the staff. However Harbs is coming out saying he had zero knowledge of anything being done by this guy you claim was hired specifically for this role. How can that be? If OSU fans know anything, it's that the NCAA doesn't take kindly to coaches lying to them about knowing things.

But, again, this isn't a rule violation. Michigan has not been accused by the NCAA of breaking a rule. There is no notice of allegations. I think this was a purposeful grey area that some of the staff were operating in.

 

[Across The Field]

But, again, this isn't a rule violation. Michigan has not been accused by the NCAA of breaking a rule. There is no notice of allegations. I think this was a purposeful grey area that some of the staff were operating in.

It's clearly a rule violation if the NCAA is bothering to investigate and michigan suspended the guy. Why suspend him for doing the very thing you hired him for if it wasn't a rule violation?

Again, impressive mental gymnastics. Overall though, it's gross that your newfound success on the field is now tied to this. The coincidences are pretty obvious.