More Michigan Cheating

[osubuckeye89]

Here we go again ... "everyone does it." No, everyone does not go to other games and try and steal signs. This is being talked about exactly because no one has an operation like UM had. Yes, everyone tries to figure out signals in-game, but no one does what UM has done. You can make yourself feel good by insisting otherwise, but you are just being a homer.

The "everyone goes to random games of teams not on their schedule to steal their signs" argument makes me literally laugh out loud.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

What the hell was coordinated about it? The guy was using his personal credit card, while paying people with his public venmo account. That is coordinated to you?!?!?!

How can you not see the coordination? You think this guy simply did this on his own, then comes down on the field an stands next to the coordinators, talks to Harbaugh. And you want to slap your head? JFC, dude.

 

[fordman84]

@fordman84

BTW from a discussion earlier:

What rule is Michigan accused of breaking? What are possible penalties? Explaining sign-stealing in CFB

What are the rules in college football as it pertains to signaling and scouting? Here's what you need to know.

theathletic.com

View attachment 110108

Why are you tagging me? I never said there was no video. What you are talking about is what is available to everyone. What Michigan did was similar but very focused on the sideline and available only to themselves.

Which makes it against the rules.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

They made a fucking chart and were dumb enough to get photographed with it. Betting sites are pulling your lines off the boards. This ain't a simple rouge super fan problem.

Besides, get your damn picks in or you're fired.

Yeah -- it was so coordinated, they had him use his own credit card, instead of a random person with no affiliation and then had him send payments over his public venmo.

And until someone shows me the actual video of this play chart, instead of a photoshopped pic -- I will laugh at the pic being shown around.

Here is some breaking news for you -- Tom Brady is now playing for the Jets. The internet says so:

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

How can you not see the coordination? You think this guy simply did this on his own, then comes down on the field an stands next to the coordinators, talks to Harbaugh. And you want to slap your head? JFC, dude.

How simple would it have been for Michigan to purchase the tickets in ANYONE ELSE'S NAME? If he were paying people to go to the game's. How simple would it have been to pay the person WITHOUT A PUBLIC VENMO ACCOUNT? How simple would it have been to use pin sized high def camera to video the sideline, INSTEAD OF A CELL PHONE?

It blows my mind people don't see this. This was about as uncoordinated of a rule break as you can get. The guy did everything but announce it on social media and left a paper trail for everyone in public view. Yet you believe this was coordinated?!?!

Go watch the SEC Short and tell me how coordinated it was. That video is saying everything I have been saying.

 

[fordman84]

I'm impressed at the mental gymnastics in here. Yeah, someone has been planning this long con for so long they were editing photos from last year showing this guy holding play sheets and standing next to Harbaugh.

 

[Across The Field]

How simple would it have been for Michigan to purchase the tickets in ANYONE ELSE'S NAME? If he were paying people to go to the game's. How simple would it have been to pay the person WITHOUT A PUBLIC VENMO ACCOUNT? How simple would it have been to use pin sized high def camera to video the sideline, INSTEAD OF A CELL PHONE?

It blows my mind people don't see this. This was about as uncoordinated of a rule break as you can get. The guy did everything but announce it on social media and left a paper trail for everyone in public view. Yet you believe this was coordinated?!?!

Go watch the SEC Short and tell me how coordinated it was. That video is saying everything I have been saying.

Saying the guy was a fucking idiot doesn't by any stretch mean that it didn't happen. Your idiot HC was too busy planning out his move back to the NFL to care what his lackey was doing or how he was doing it.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Here we go again ... "everyone does it." No, everyone does not go to other games and try and steal signs. This is being talked about exactly because no one has an operation like UM had. Yes, everyone tries to figure out signals in-game, but no one does what UM has done. You can make yourself feel good by insisting otherwise, but you are just being a homer.

For crying out loud -- I said exactly what you just did. Feel free to go back and find the post. You are putting words in my mouth, when i've said REPEATEDLY what the guy at Michigan did going to those games was wrong.
What I said EVERYONE DOES is try to steal the signs during the games. It is like beating my head against the wall.

 

[Red_Alert]

"The specific act Stalions described—deciphering opponents’ signals off of TV footage—is not against NCAA rules. In the last week, though, the now suspended Michigan staffer has become a household name across college football following accusations and reports that he orchestrated an elaborate scheme to place unnamed associates of his in stadiums of Michigan’s opponents to scout and, in some cases, film opposing coaches’ signals (both acts very much against the rules)."

 

[fordman84]

How simple would it have been for Michigan to purchase the tickets in ANYONE ELSE'S NAME? If he were paying people to go to the game's. How simple would it have been to pay the person WITHOUT A PUBLIC VENMO ACCOUNT? How simple would it have been to use pin sized high def camera to video the sideline, INSTEAD OF A CELL PHONE?

It blows my mind people don't see this. This was about as uncoordinated of a rule break as you can get. The guy did everything but announce it on social media and left a paper trail for everyone in public view. Yet you believe this was coordinated?!?!

Go watch the SEC Short and tell me how coordinated it was. That video is saying everything I have been saying.

Simple is right, but they didn't do it. And there is video of this dipshit filming the sidelines. So there is proof he bought the tickets, proof he attended or had someone attend for him, and proof of video taping a future opponents sidelines.


Every accusation has been proven so far, and the best defense anyone has is "other forms of videotaping is legal so this should be too". Which of course is stupid as shit.

I'm starting to rethink the "Michigan has higher academic standards" bullshit.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

I'm impressed at the mental gymnastics in here. Yeah, someone has been planning this long con for so long they were editing photos from last year showing this guy holding play sheets and standing next to Harbaugh.

He is standing by the defensive coordinator. Harbaugh doesn't call plays.

 

[Huskers4me]

What the hell was coordinated about it? The guy was using his personal credit card, while paying people with his public venmo account. That is coordinated to you?!?!?!

From the SI article posted on last page or so….

A review of Stalions’s now deleted Venmo account did show that Jay Harbaugh sent Stalions money in 2017, with the O.K. hand gesture emoji in the memo line, though no purpose or amount for the transfer was indicated.

I submit to you that wasn’t in this alone using his own money.
Things many change but that’s doubtful.

 

[fordman84]

He is standing by the defensive coordinator. Harbaugh doesn't call plays.

Ok he isn't calling plays. Then who is he talking to in the headset? He's talking to someone, and that someone could be calling the plays.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Saying the guy was a fucking idiot doesn't by any stretch mean that it didn't happen. Your idiot HC was too busy planning out his move back to the NFL to care what his lackey was doing or how he was doing it.

Now it was uncoordinated is what you are saying? Make up your mind.

 

[fordman84]

If Harbaugh didn't know what was going on with the guy standing next to him and talking to him, sounds like a lack of institutional control.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Why are you tagging me? I never said there was no video. What you are talking about is what is available to everyone. What Michigan did was similar but very focused on the sideline and available only to themselves.

Which makes it against the rules.

We were talking about if there was commonly video of the sidelines.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

Ok he isn't calling plays. Then who is he talking to in the headset? He's talking to someone, and that someone could be calling the plays.

Good lord -- are you another one who has never played football? Did you just ask who the head coach is talking to in the headset? You know they have coaches up in the press box, right? That is how they communicate.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Stop ... your HC, OC, DC, and everyone else knew he was doing this. He was standing right next to them giving them intel. It was an operation in plain view. He may be stupid, but so is everyone else on your team for doing it and thinking they could get away with it, or even more stupid if they think we are dumb enough to buy their "we didn't know what was going on" explanation.

Certainly they knew he was helping them steal signs. I'm not sure that means they knew about the methods used to do it.

 

[Red_Alert]

I didn't admit anything. I said this is entirely about in person scouting. Which was banned because of equity concerns, IE poor programs couldn't afford to pay scouts to go around the country.

As I said early on, I think Michigan (or some faction of the staff) operated within the rules, albeit a grey area within the rules, to send unaffiliated people to other games to get information on teams. If what's being accused turns out to be true. After all, we are operating entirely on unsubstantiated accusations at this point.

If Michigan is ruled to have cheated by the NCAA, I would question to what level the information gathered was actually an advantage. Because we've already established 1. Sign stealing is legal 2. Sign stealing is common and 3. Teams do a lot to try and block it, change it up and prevent sign stealing. So how much MORE information about signs did Michigan gain vs. the average amount known? And what real advantage would it have on signs that continue to change/be modified?

When Ohio State comes out and says things like this:

View attachment 110143


The quantifiable advantage is minimal.

LOL

What you don't seem to grasp in your homerism is that it's the acts that are against the rules, not the results of said acts.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Yeah, you are starting to understand how wrong you are and how this is so obviously cheating no matter what technicalities you think there are. But look at my previous post - this will not be something you can lay at the feet of some "crazy" person. This goes very deep in the program.

Nah, I said what I think is the most likely scenario should the allegations be true. Michigan was operating in a grey area.