Tennessee Being Investigated for NIL Violations

[WhosYourDawggy]

Legally it'd be a great comparison if each Ivy school wasn't going out of their way to ensure that the overwhelming majority of their student athletes weren't also going to school for free just like at non-Ivys. It's the same outcome with a different label.

Again, you can't compare each university to a billion dollar business because they simply don't run the same. Also, as I said, this would ultimately just end up in a scenario where 99.9% of colleges in the country hack their athletic teams down to football only, or maybe just not even offering athletics anymore. Unless you can somehow get the big boys to act like the NBA to the little guys' WNBA and just pay for their shit for them, but we of course know that's not happening either.

Instead of paying your HC $10,000, divide that by 500 athletes and pay them each $18,000. There's a start. They can do it, they just dont' want to. You are making this harder than it should be.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

I'm saying that MOST college athletic departments could not afford to directly pay/hire athletes.

NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

Which are the most profitable college athletic programs in the country? See a ranked listed, including total revenue and expenses. Brought to you by USA TODAY.

sports.usatoday.com

What's currently happening is that most schools are working with connected/3rd parties to develop funds outside the budget to pay student athletes. What SOME schools want, usually ones that can afford it, is to be able to directly pay players because it removes almost all of the complexity on their end in terms of staying within the rules.

Why do you suppose schools want to do that? Because then they don't have the obligations one has to employees. It's as simple as that. They want their cake and eat it too. I get what NIL is, and why they are trying to use that instead of paying the players. It's just not going to meet legal requirements.

This is also why there will be a division of CFB where about 60 teams that can afford to pay players will participate. Others won't. Is that good? Don't know. But I know it's not good to make a ton of money and not pay the players.

 

[Across The Field]

Instead of paying your HC $10,000, divide that by 500 athletes and pay them each $18,000. There's a start. They can do it, they just dont' want to. You are making this harder than it should be.

I'm not making anything harder than it should be, I'm simply living in the real world.

 

[Wild Turkey]

Legally it'd be a great comparison if each Ivy school wasn't going out of their way to ensure that the overwhelming majority of their student athletes weren't also going to school for free just like at non-Ivys. It's the same outcome with a different label.

Again, you can't compare each university to a billion dollar business because they simply don't run the same. Also, as I said, this would ultimately just end up in a scenario where 99.9% of colleges in the country hack their athletic teams down to football only, or maybe just not even offering athletics anymore. Unless you can somehow get the big boys to act like the NBA to the little guys' WNBA and just pay for their shit for them, but we of course know that's not happening either.

I wouldn’t be surprised if schools carved the football teams out of the University altogether. The AD departments for most big programs are separate entities as it is.

They would still be affiliated but not officially “owned” by the schools.

I realize that is unthinkable but let’s face it none of saw the portal and NIL coming in the forms that they have. We are in “unthinkable” territory.

 

[Goldbug]

Why do you suppose schools want to do that? Because then they don't have the obligations one has to employees. It's as simple as that. They want their cake and eat it too. I get what NIL is, and why they are trying to use that instead of paying the players. It's just not going to meet legal requirements.

This is also why there will be a division of CFB where about 60 teams that can afford to pay players will participate. Others won't. Is that good? Don't know. But I know it's not good to make a ton of money and not pay the players.

"Making a ton of money" and showing a profit are two different things. Of course the schools bring in a ton of money but they also SPEND A TON OF MONEY ON ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES, OPERATING COSTS AND FACILITIES. The majority of these universities are swimming in debt. Very few turn a "profit" which is (over simplified definition) income - expenses = profit. Of course the coaches are paid too much and some of the other staff are too but the idea that everyone is cutting a fat hog in the ass with a dull knife is ridiculous. Fuck these players who say they are being exploited. If they don't want a free education and numerous other advantages that the average student can only dream of then don't play sports. Go get a job, go to college on their own dime, join the military, hole up with their friends and piss away their life with drugs.......whatever. But they certainly don't have to play a college sport. They are not slaves. Guaranteeing all of them 5 star medical benefits and other sane perks in addition to what they used to get is fair. But this crap we're seeing now is beyond the pale. Let them get a free car from Big Red Sports Cars or some other perks that are half way reasonable but NIL and the transfer portal are destroying college sports.

 

[Across The Field]

I wouldn’t be surprised if schools carved the football teams out of the University altogether. The AD departments for most big programs are separate entities as it is.

They would still be affiliated but not officially “owned” by the schools.

I realize that is unthinkable but let’s face it none of saw the portal and NIL coming in the forms that they have. We are in “unthinkable” territory.

They could just make them all club sports affiliated with the schools, and throw the entire NCAA away, but then it's just the wild west and the whole product suffers across the board. I truthfully don't see a problem with the current NIL system. The biggest names that are most responsible for bringing in the money are getting paid out the ass while the not-so-important ones can still get a small NIL cut even if their sport doesn't generate revenue. All the while they're getting a degree and building networks. What the hell else do they want?

 

[PeoplesChicken]

I see some AG's are filing suit against the NCAA. Break 'em!!!!

 

[PeoplesChicken]

Says the cheater. I am kind of kidding.

Look, the NCAA gets reamed for not doing anything and then gets fucked for doing something. You have rules or you don't.

In case everyone has forgotten, the schools are the NCAA. It's not some independent 3rd party who tells the schools what to do. The schools tell the NCAA what to do. If UTjr doesn't like this, then they should start a movement to change it.

That is the crux of why we hate the NCAA. They are notorious for overlooking certain things and then wanting to burn people at the stake for something else. No consistency, no rhyme or reason other than "We are the NCAA".

Aside from the federal government, this is the most worthless institution in America

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

I'm not making anything harder than it should be, I'm simply living in the real world.

The real world is that the players will get paid directly from the schools, sooner rather than later.

NCAA pitch: Let D-I schools pay athletes via NIL

NCAA president Charlie Baker has proposed rule changes that would allow Division I schools to enter into NIL deals directly with their athletes and create a trust fund at the richest tier of athletic departments.

www.espn.com

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

"Making a ton of money" and showing a profit are two different things. Of course the schools bring in a ton of money but they also SPEND A TON OF MONEY ON ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES, OPERATING COSTS AND FACILITIES. The majority of these universities are swimming in debt. Very few turn a "profit" which is (over simplified definition) income - expenses = profit. Of course the coaches are paid too much and some of the other staff are too but the idea that everyone is cutting a fat hog in the ass with a dull knife is ridiculous. Fuck these players who say they are being exploited. If they don't want a free education and numerous other advantages that the average student can only dream of then don't play sports. Go get a job, go to college on their own dime, join the military, hole up with their friends and piss away their life with drugs.......whatever. But they certainly don't have to play a college sport. They are not slaves. Guaranteeing all of them 5 star medical benefits and other sane perks in addition to what they used to get is fair. But this crap we're seeing now is beyond the pale. Let them get a free car from Big Red Sports Cars or some other perks that are half way reasonable but NIL and the transfer portal are destroying college sports.

They have a job ffs, to play CFB. One that they should be paid for just like the TA.

Did you really think I didn't understand basic economics and accounting? I've owned my own practice and business for over 40 years. I understand the difference between revenue and profit. I have said numerous times ... it's all about the allocation of their revenue. Forever the schools didn't have to pay for what should be their biggest expense - labor. Now they are going to have to pay for the labor.

It's funny you think that NIL and the Transfer Portal are ruining college sports, yet object to the one thing that can be done to make that go away - pay the fucking players.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

What's crystal clear is you can't run a billion dollar business and not pay the labor

How do they not pay the labor? They are getting a free education, coached by the top staffs in the US, getting to train in state of the art facilities. They have dieticians, strength and conditioning coaches, tutors, athletic trainers, etc. They have an endless supply of free shirts, shorts, track suits, tennis shoes, spikes, hoodies, etc.

They had a study back about 10 years ago -- it estimated that the value of a 4 year scholarship to a D1 football program was valued at like 2.5 million dollars with all the perks received.

Or are you saying teams should pay the players, but then charge them for all of the stuff provided to scholarship athletes right now for free?

What about the 5* scholarship athlete who is a flop? Can the school release them any time they want? Since they are going to pay the kids -- what if I have 4 CB's who are really good, but I need a LB. Can I trade one of the CB's to another school? Seems like you should be able to if we are making this a professional atmosphere.

If college football goes this route -- It would be amazing to watch. I'd love to see kids traded between teams. Send a kid from Florida and trade them to a school 2,000 miles away.

Instead of recruiting -- they could hold an auction. Put all the schools in the crowd and give them a paddle. Keep bidding for the kids until 1 school is left. That is where he will go to school.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

It's funny you think that NIL and the Transfer Portal are ruining college sports, yet object to the one thing that can be done to make that go away - pay the fucking players.

Instead of NIL and the Transfer Portal. It can be replaced by the Waiver Wire, salary cap and a trade deadline. We will have the NFL minor league system and it'd be amazing.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

How do they not pay the labor? They are getting a free education, coached by the top staffs in the US, getting to train in state of the art facilities. They have dieticians, strength and conditioning coaches, tutors, athletic trainers, etc. They have an endless supply of free shirts, shorts, track suits, tennis shoes, spikes, hoodies, etc.

They had a study back about 10 years ago -- it estimated that the value of a 4 year scholarship to a D1 football program was valued at like 2.5 million dollars with all the perks received.

Or are you saying teams should pay the players, but then charge them for all of the stuff provided to scholarship athletes right now for free?

What about the 5* scholarship athlete who is a flop? Can the school release them any time they want? Since they are going to pay the kids -- what if I have 4 CB's who are really good, but I need a LB. Can I trade one of the CB's to another school? Seems like you should be able to if we are making this a professional atmosphere.

If college football goes this route -- It would be amazing to watch. I'd love to see kids traded between teams. Send a kid from Florida and trade them to a school 2,000 miles away.

Instead of recruiting -- they could hold an auction. Put all the schools in the crowd and give them a paddle. Keep bidding for the kids until 1 school is left. That is where he will go to school.

They aren't paying them close to market value for their services. I've paid for two sons to attend college and have one in med school. I understand the value of tuition. I also get that if you are making billions of dollars off the backs of the players, they deserve more than a free education.

All the other gotchas you raised are things you work out through collective bargaining.

No, you can't trade. The reasons are obvious if you think about it for two seconds.

You do realize this is already in the works, right? See my post a couple up.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Instead of NIL and the Transfer Portal. It can be replaced by the Waiver Wire, salary cap and a trade deadline. We will have the NFL minor league system and it'd be amazing.

No, it won't. But there will be contracts. And the players will have to agree to limitations on things like transfers. And NIL isn't limited in the pro sports so it won' there. But the players will agree to it being real NIL, not pay for play NIL because they will already be getting paid to play.

You act like I am making this shit up. It's in the works.

 

[Wild Turkey]

They could just make them all club sports affiliated with the schools, and throw the entire NCAA away, but then it's just the wild west and the whole product suffers across the board. I truthfully don't see a problem with the current NIL system. The biggest names that are most responsible for bringing in the money are getting paid out the ass while the not-so-important ones can still get a small NIL cut even if their sport doesn't generate revenue. All the while they're getting a degree and building networks. What the hell else do they want?

Dude if you don't think we are in the wild wild west right now then you are delusional.

I don't hate NIL but if we are all honest it's not working the way it should be and basically, teams are setting up collectives and buying the best players they can but not getting any assurances or rights in the process. If you are going to pay that stud 1mm then at least let the teams put him under contract so they can restrict his transfers because they are fairly paying consideration. That is my biggest problem.

The irony is that black athletes have complained for years they are nothing more than slaves but they don't hesitate to put themselves on the auction block and sell themselves.

The one positive is there are a lot of basketball players who are taking the NIL instead of leaving school and playing overseas.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

No, it won't. But there will be contracts. And the players will have to agree to limitations on things like transfers. And NIL isn't limited in the pro sports so it won' there. But the players will agree to it being real NIL, not pay for play NIL because they will already be getting paid to play.

You act like I am making this shit up. It's in the works.

Unless they put a cap how much a school can pay out -- it will ALWAYS be pay to play, as schools will be essentially bidding on recruits or transfers. Even if you put a cap -- teams won't abide by it and they will find loopholes around it. That's just the world we live in.

I say if they are going to be paying these kids to play -- the school should hold every right to pull the plug on them at any time. The athletes are no longer student/athletes, but they would be employees of the school. So if this is the route they go -- they have to take the good with the bad.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

They aren't paying them close to market value for their services. I've paid for two sons to attend college and have one in med school. I understand the value of tuition. I also get that if you are making billions of dollars off the backs of the players, they deserve more than a free education.

All the other gotchas you raised are things you work out through collective bargaining.

No, you can't trade. The reasons are obvious if you think about it for two seconds.

You do realize this is already in the works, right? See my post a couple up.

The overwhelming majority of players -- they are overpaying for their services.

Tuition isn't what I was referring to when I was talking about the value of a D1 scholarship. Tuition is great, but that is only about 100-200k depending where you go. EVERYTHING that goes along with that scholarship is why it is worth roughly 500k+ a year.

Take your school -- Just your football program has 59 people on the football staff at the beckon call of the football team. From athletic trainers, to strength coach, all the way down to a head chef. All of that is available to these kids, FREE OF CHARGE. The state of the art facilities they work out in, they indoor practice facilities, all the latest greatest technology to track their athletic performance during practices are all available to these kids, FREE OF CHARGE. They have the best equipment, the best shoes, the top of the line gear no one else has, and the supply is endless, all FREE OF CHARGE. You need a tutor at "fill in the blank"

You are talking as if all an athletic scholarship involves is tuition. The free school is definitely a great perk, but it is everything else provided to student athletes that provide the value to them.

I'd say this -- pay the players, but whatever school they went to reserves the rights to 25% of any money earned in the NFL for all the training and coaching they provided.

 

[Brutus]

I'd say this -- pay the players, but whatever school they went to reserves the rights to 25% of any money earned in the NFL for all the training and coaching they provided.

You’ve jumped the shark bro

 

[Bring Back The Oilers]

Whatever it is, I just hope Tennessee kicks the NCAA's ass in court and drives the final nail in their anachronistic coffin.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Unless they put a cap how much a school can pay out -- it will ALWAYS be pay to play, as schools will be essentially bidding on recruits or transfers. Even if you put a cap -- teams won't abide by it and they will find loopholes around it. That's just the world we live in.

I say if they are going to be paying these kids to play -- the school should hold every right to pull the plug on them at any time. The athletes are no longer student/athletes, but they would be employees of the school. So if this is the route they go -- they have to take the good with the bad.

Obviously, there will be caps. We don't know exactly how they will do that, but of course, there will be caps of some kind.

You aren't going to believe this, but all pro sports have a mechanism in place to (1) somehow cap or limit the amount of pay and (2) control the movement of players (the Transfer Portal problem). It's not like these things haven't been handled before. If teams try to go around it, the NCAA can crack down on them, and they will be better able to do that now that the players have agreed to the cap. For example, not only will the school be penalized, but the players will too, because they violated the rules the players agreed to. You sound like you are a person who, if something is hard or requires effort to effectuate, you give up and just stick with the status quo. It should be obvious to anyone who follows college sports, the status quo isn't going to survive.

There is no organized labor where the management can fire an employee at any time. The whole idea is that management doesn't get all they want, and the labor doesn't get all it wants. They meet in the middle and try to do what's best for the sport which should result in a rising tide that floats all boats. These are basic labor concepts that anyone who has ever paid attention to the news should understand.