Big Ten Basketball

[Red_Alert]

Lol that last sequence was incredibly lucky. 17 game road losing streak (yikes) finally snapped

Yeah, it was a Hail Mary, but Sparty shouldn't have let it come down to that.

Ohio St is the last team to get a road win in the Big 10 since Nebraska finally won one @ Indiana last Wednesday.

 

[Mr.Hockey]

Buckeyes clearly more engaged with Holtmann gone.

2 wins. Played solidly against Gophers too.

 

[Mr.Hockey]

Gophers playing like shit and Nebraska playing really well

 

[duckboy33]

lol at Michigan State being safely in.

Selection criteria is broken

 

[NinerSpartan]

lol at Michigan State being safely in.

Selection criteria is broken

they only have two wins versus teams that are projected to receive at-large bids. the Quad system is retarded, b/c 90% of viewers don't understand it.

commentators don't understand it, either. they keep yapping their gums about "it's about having wins versus NCAAT-quality teams", but then you got teams like Michigan State and Florida Atlantic being safely in the tournament. both of those teams are an 8 seed on bracket matrix. It's insanity.

 

[ericd7633]

lol at Michigan State being safely in.

Selection criteria is broken

What are you basing that off of? They're top 40 in KPI and SoR(coming into today) and top 20 in BPI and KenPom(coming into today). Played a great OOC schedule, have 8 combined Q1/Q2 wins.

Honest question, what criteria do you want them to use? Do you want them to go back to putting RPI on the team sheets?

 

[ericd7633]

they only have two wins versus teams that are projected to receive at-large bids. the Quad system is retarded, b/c 90% of viewers don't understand it.

commentators don't understand it, either. they keep yapping their gums about "it's about having wins versus NCAAT-quality teams", but then you got teams like Michigan State and Florida Atlantic being safely in the tournament. both of those teams are an 8 seed on bracket matrix. It's insanity.

The cutline isn't all that great this season. It's mixed with teams that don't have a bunch of tournament quality wins(Gonzaga, Wake etc) mixed with teams that have really good wins, but a bunch of losses(A&M, Nova, Butler to name a few). I don't think MSU will be an 8 come tomorrow. My guess is that they are on the 10 line in most projections. FAU probably on the 9/10 now as well. What's helping them is their metrics across the board, and they played a really good OOC schedule. If it's close, that probably gives them an edge.

 

[NinerSpartan]

The cutline isn't all that great this season. It's mixed with teams that don't have a bunch of tournament quality wins(Gonzaga, Wake etc) mixed with teams that have really good wins, but a bunch of losses(A&M, Nova, Butler to name a few). I don't think MSU will be an 8 come tomorrow. My guess is that they are on the 10 line in most projections. FAU probably on the 9/10 now as well. What's helping them is their metrics across the board, and they played a really good OOC schedule. If it's close, that probably gives them an edge.

Wake has more tournament quality wins than Michigan State does.

 

[jontaejones]

Sparty is basically off the cut line because absolutely trounced Baylor in what was considered a neutral court game even tho it was in Detroit.

They also haven't lost that badly, at least final score wise in their losses.

But one win like that against a top 10ish team metric wise is like 4 wins against middle of the pack Big East/Big Ten/ACC teams at home

 

[ericd7633]

Wake has more tournament quality wins than Michigan State does.

They're about similar IMO. Duke and Baylor is pretty much a wash. Illinois is about 2 seeds or so ahead of UF and UVA is a seed line or 2 ahead of Indiana State. They have very similar resumes, the big difference is the OOC SOS. And MSU having a pretty big lead in overall SOS. There's probably only a seed line difference between the two at this point. I think Wake would be in as of now. Same with MSU.

 

[duckboy33]

they only have two wins versus teams that are projected to receive at-large bids. the Quad system is retarded, b/c 90% of viewers don't understand it.

commentators don't understand it, either. they keep yapping their gums about "it's about having wins versus NCAAT-quality teams", but then you got teams like Michigan State and Florida Atlantic being safely in the tournament. both of those teams are an 8 seed on bracket matrix. It's insanity.

The quad non-sense needs to go away ASAP. It's entirely arbitrary and doesn't tell us anything useful.

Put some basketball people on the selection committee. Value winning games throughout the season. Stop letting a handful of OOC games dictate the entire season.

If you need to short hand it, if you didn't win 20 games at the end of the season, you don't belong in the tournament. If you don't finish with a winning conference record, you don't belong in the tournament.

 

[ericd7633]

The quad non-sense needs to go away ASAP. It's entirely arbitrary and doesn't tell us anything useful.

Put some basketball people on the selection committee. Value winning games throughout the season. Stop letting a handful of OOC games dictate the entire season.

If you need to short hand it, if you didn't win 20 games at the end of the season, you don't belong in the tournament. If you don't finish with a winning conference record, you don't belong in the tournament.

That would discount a lot of deserving/good teams though. I believe that you can't treat all conferences as equals. Going 8-10 in the B12 this year is better than going 10-8 in the P12.

You'd have a much worse field if you put restrictions like that on teams. Especially as we head into more conference expansion.

 

[NinerSpartan]

They're about similar IMO. Duke and Baylor is pretty much a wash. Illinois is about 2 seeds or so ahead of UF and UVA is a seed line or 2 ahead of Indiana State. They have very similar resumes, the big difference is the OOC SOS. And MSU having a pretty big lead in overall SOS. There's probably only a seed line difference between the two at this point. I think Wake would be in as of now. Same with MSU.

and it's bullshit. the dark secret in these OOC schedules is that it's hard for teams to schedule a quality OOC when you have been down as long as Wake has. Nobody wants to come to Winston anymore (so that takes away home and home), nor do they want to schedule Wake on a neutral site. Back in the day, Wake was able to get programs like Kansas, Cincinnati, Utah and Marquette to come to town, now they have to settle for Georgia and Rutgers.

i think it says a lot that Wake still has more wins against the current at-large field than Michigan State and Florida Atlantic do.

and Indiana State wouldn't make the field as an at-large, so they are irrelevant to the current conversation.

 

[stakesarehigh]

Buckeyes clearly more engaged with Holtmann gone.

2 wins. Played solidly against Gophers too.

it was clear as day something was missing with Holtmann. Makes no sense you win a 3 game tourney in December including beating Alabama and then proceed to suck.

 

[stakesarehigh]

total hail Mary but with 2 consecutive home games it would be interesting where OSU is at if they somehow manage to claw back to 19 and 12 heading into the BIG tournament.

That's looking way ahead for this team though. They could just as easily lose every game left lol

 

[ericd7633]

and it's bullshit. the dark secret in these OOC schedules is that it's hard for teams to schedule a quality OOC when you have been down as long as Wake has. Nobody wants to come to Winston anymore (so that takes away home and home), nor do they want to schedule Wake on a neutral site. Back in the day, Wake was able to get programs like Kansas, Cincinnati, Utah and Marquette to come to town, now they have to settle for Georgia and Rutgers.

i think it says a lot that Wake still has more wins against the current at-large field than Michigan State and Florida Atlantic do.

and Indiana State wouldn't make the field as an at-large, so they are irrelevant to the current conversation.

Yeah, I agree. MSU is able to schedule quality OOC games because of their brand and reputation currently. I'm not saying that it's fair, but it's always been part of the process(more so along the cut line, which both of these teams are).

If you don't want to include Indiana State, I get that, although I do think they still have a case if they win out to the MVC title game and lose to Drake. There's not a lot of separation between MSU and Wake Forest.

I hope Wake gets in. I honestly think they'll be under seeded, because their record is much better with Reid, and I think overall they are a fringe top 25 team which would put them on the 7/8 line. If they get in as an 10 or 11, id expect them to be favored against the 6 or 7 they'd be up against.

 

[Mr.Hockey]

MSU has an interesting finish. Tough to see them leaving an Izzo team out.

But at Purdue, vs NU, at IU is tough finish. Lose 2 of those and 1 and done in BTT and they are in big trouble

 

[ericd7633]

MSU has an interesting finish. Tough to see them leaving an Izzo team out.

But at Purdue, vs NU, at IU is tough finish. Lose 2 of those and 1 and done in BTT and they are in big trouble

NW is also, for whatever reason, really good playing in EL. Won in EL the last two seasons.

 

[NinerSpartan]

Yeah, I agree. MSU is able to schedule quality OOC games because of their brand and reputation currently. I'm not saying that it's fair, but it's always been part of the process(more so along the cut line, which both of these teams are).

If you don't want to include Indiana State, I get that, although I do think they still have a case if they win out to the MVC title game and lose to Drake. There's not a lot of separation between MSU and Wake Forest.

I hope Wake gets in. I honestly think they'll be under seeded, because their record is much better with Reid, and I think overall they are a fringe top 25 team which would put them on the 7/8 line. If they get in as an 10 or 11, id expect them to be favored against the 6 or 7 they'd be up against.

They are a top 15 team with Reid. The main reason why his waiver was initially denied was because the NCAA no longer has any power but they still wanted to find a way to punish two time transfers. So by initially denying the waiver, they cost the transfer the first eight games of the season. Wake isn't even a bubble team if they were able to play Georgia, Utah and LSU with Reid.

 

[duckboy33]

That would discount a lot of deserving/good teams though. I believe that you can't treat all conferences as equals. Going 8-10 in the B12 this year is better than going 10-8 in the P12.

You'd have a much worse field if you put restrictions like that on teams. Especially as we head into more conference expansion.

LMAO no it wouldn't. None of these P6 conferences are that much better than the others. If you can't finish .500 in conference play, you aren't that good or deserving. Reward teams that win games. Simple.

When it comes to seeding, sure, get into the specifics on which leagues were tougher than others. You wanna argue that a 14-4 Big 12 team should be seeded higher than a 15-5 PAC 12/ACC team, I'll agree with you. You want to argue that a 7-11 Big 12 team is more deserving than a 13-7 PAC 12/ACC team, that's where I start to have a problem.