The electrical grid is being pushed to the limit with this cold system.

ill said:
what code?

you have a plant in TX that you don't expect will ever see freezing temperatures. What are you insulating the pipes for?

and even if you are, who's to say the insulation will be enough? We have heat trace in a lot of our lines to make sure the fluid flows in the winter.
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Because that was the plan after 2011 per the ERCOT response findings. Hot oil dips and winterizing the backup generators was the plan, now we find out that wasn't done.
 
fordman84 said:
coal, or natural gas? Because I haven't heard of coal piping being frozen. Lack of winterization for the coal turbines keeping them from being brought up as backup, perhaps. But brought up means something else already failed. That something else is wind.
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not necessarily.

coal plants aren't always run 24/7, they are sometimes cycled. If a plant is brought down, it means that another plant is scheduled to carry the load for a period of time.
 
PeoplesChicken said:
Building code?

Here pipes have to have insulation to meet code specs. They don't know what the hell they are doing down there!
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In DFW we don't build with hurricane straps or earthquake codes either. 0 degrees isn't something we ever see.
 
PeoplesChicken said:
Building code?

Here pipes have to have insulation to meet code specs. They don't know what the hell they are doing down there!
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energy plants are not the same as building codes.
 
ill said:
not necessarily.

coal plants aren't always run 24/7, they are sometimes cycled. If a plant is brought down, it means that another plant is scheduled to carry the load for a period of time.
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Coal has been relegated here to backup demand. In the summer it works great, but the winter cold we are having it wasn't ready for. Despite ERCOT saying they were abiding by the findings from a decade ago.
 
ill said:
energy plants are not the same as building codes.
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You mean to tell me that someone builds a powerplant it doesnt have to meet inspection requirements???
 
fordman84 said:
Because that was the plan after 2011 per the ERCOT response findings. Hot oil dips and winterizing the backup generators was the plan, now we find out that wasn't done.
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not surprised.

coal and NG plants don't have the same kind of regulators breathing down their necks as nuclear does, so while they can say "yea, we will do that" and really never get around to it.
 
PeoplesChicken said:
You mean to tell me that someone builds a powerplant it doesnt have to meet inspection requirements???
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no

but it has to meet different inspection requirements than just building code.
 
ill said:
no

but it has to meet different inspection requirements than just building code.
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That is a given McGyver

But my point is there are construction code regs
 
PeoplesChicken said:
That is a given McGyver

But my point is there are construction code regs
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correct

but they aren't as cut and dry as "all piping shall be insulated"
 
fordman84 said:
We have different guidelines here than plants up north. Had lessons been learned in 2011, 2021 wouldn't have happened. Many people should be fired over this, and some should see jail.
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I am not familiar with ERCOT, but what exactly was driving it? Was it more than just a recommendation following the issues seen in 2011?
 
from what I can tell, ERCOT put out a warning and officials left it up to the power companies to implement, with absolutely no bite behind it. It all came across as "suggestions" and optional.

if you want something done, you have to put something behind it.

if you think companies are going to spend on optional enhancements, you have another thing coming.

www.texastribune.org

Texas leaders failed to heed warnings that left the state's power grid vulnerable to winter extremes, experts say

Texas officials knew winter storms could leave the state’s power grid vulnerable, but they left the choice to prepare for harsh weather up to the power companies — many of which opted against the costly upgrades. That, plus a deregulated energy market largely isolated from the rest of the...
www.texastribune.org www.texastribune.org
Energy and policy experts said Texas’ decision not to require equipment upgrades to better withstand extreme winter temperatures, and choice to operate mostly isolated from other grids in the U.S. left power system unprepared for the winter crisis.

Policy observers blamed the power system failure on the legislators and state agencies who they say did not properly heed the warnings of previous storms or account for more extreme weather events warned of by climate scientists. Instead, Texas prioritized the free market.
Click to expand...
 
fordman84 said:
Lived here all my life, see it every winter. Those that moved down here and complain about the slow drivers "in an inch of snow" end up with wrecked cars because they have never heard of black ice
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Funny. You think Black Ice is only a thing down south.

Pro tip: slush is even more dangerous to drive in than ice or snow.
 
Wingsauce7 said:
Funny. You think Black Ice is only a thing down south.

Pro tip: slush is even more dangerous to drive in than ice or snow.
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somewhat agree...both have their dangers
 
ill said:
I am not familiar with ERCOT, but what exactly was driving it? Was it more than just a recommendation following the issues seen in 2011?
Click to expand...
I thought it was supposed to be a binding report with instructions on how to keep the same thing from happening in 2011. Sounds like the 18 month study was done and then file-thirteened, was all just lip service.
 
ill said:
from what I can tell, ERCOT put out a warning and officials left it up to the power companies to implement, with absolutely no bite behind it. It all came across as "suggestions" and optional.

if you want something done, you have to put something behind it.

if you think companies are going to spend on optional enhancements, you have another thing coming.

www.texastribune.org

Texas leaders failed to heed warnings that left the state's power grid vulnerable to winter extremes, experts say

Texas officials knew winter storms could leave the state’s power grid vulnerable, but they left the choice to prepare for harsh weather up to the power companies — many of which opted against the costly upgrades. That, plus a deregulated energy market largely isolated from the rest of the...
www.texastribune.org www.texastribune.org
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A few people go to jail and the companies will get their shit together real quick.
 
Wingsauce7 said:
Funny. You think Black Ice is only a thing down south.

Pro tip: slush is even more dangerous to drive in than ice or snow.
Click to expand...
black ice is a thing anywhere ice is. But ice is what North Texas usually gets, not the snow you yankees get. I've spent my time driving in the snow and I'll take than any day over ice. Double for black ice you can't see until it is too late.
 
fordman84 said:
black ice is a thing anywhere ice is. But ice is what North Texas usually gets, not the snow you yankees get. I've spent my time driving in the snow and I'll take than any day over ice. Double for black ice you can't see until it is too late.
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Snow melts in the sun even at 10 degrees and freezes into ice overnight quite often ;)
 
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