HOF Watermark Qualifiers that need to go away

Rex Racer said:
Yup, 3,000 hits is impressive, but not so much if it took you 20+ years to do it at 150 hits/yr. Same with HR's, Averaging 30-35 a year for 15+ years is damn good and HOF worthy in most cases, but averaging 20-25 a year for 22 years is just very good, not great.

Either way, the barn door got kicked open a long time ago and there ain't no going back.
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Exactly. The Crime Dog hit 493. And fate being what it is, he was probably robbed of a homerun 7 or more times by a great CFer who climbed the wall or hit a drive that was only a couple feet wide of the foul pole. seven of those drives are a foot higher or a foot less wide, then he has 7 more homeruns giving him 500 and HOF guarantee. This is a prime example why the watermarks suck. How can McGriff be a HOFer with 500 homeruns but not get a sniff with 493 homeruns?
 
In some cases, the watermarks aren't as strong as they used to be. Curt Schilling has over 3000 K's, was a beast in the playoffs and was one of the best pitchers in baseball during his peak, but he's a dick, so no HOF.

But it's the Hall of Fame, not Hall of Super Elite. And LOL @ the thought of the HOF being watered down recently when Rabbit Maranville has been in the HOF since 1954
 
I see the Hall of Fame as being the best of their era, the top 1-2%. Given that, there are 7-14 HOFers playing now. That none of them reach 500 HRs or 300 wins is immaterial.
 
huskers1217 said:
Dale fucking Murphy is a hall of famer. I don't care what anyone says

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that's the major issue with putting Baines in the HOF

if Baines is a hall of famer, then Murphy sure as hell is
 
Guy Incognito said:
Markakis' OPS+ is currently two points lower than Ashburn's. Looking at the last five seasons of Markakis' career, it's likely to dip lower.

Again, you are free to be dismissive of Ashburn belonging in the Hall. But saying something as stupid as "Markakis had a better career than Ashburn" when there's almost no metric that supports that, and your whole point gets lost.
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Not only that, but we're talking about a CF versus an (average) defensive RF. Markakis's Gold Gloves are a joke.
 
But I don’t think 500 homers should be an automatic qualifier.

Take Chris Carter, if a team would have played him everyday, he’d get 500 homers, but he’d still be a dude that doesn’t get on base much and and a low OPS for a power hitter.
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
But I don’t think 500 homers should be an automatic qualifier.

Take Chris Carter, if a team would have played him everyday, he’d get 500 homers, but he’d still be a dude that doesn’t get on base much and and a low OPS for a power hitter.
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Dude had the second best career receiving stats when he retired. He should be in.

Honestly though, you have to be good enough to play every day to get to the hall of fame so I don't think a guy who hit 158 homers is a great argument.
 
SU Nittany Tide said:
Dude had the second best career receiving stats when he retired. He should be in.

Honestly though, you have to be good enough to play every day to get to the hall of fame so I don't think a guy who hit 158 homers is a great argument.
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He only has 158 homers because he sucked at everything other than hitting homers. If he would have been an every day player and still playing, he would easily pass 500, but he still wouldn’t even be a candidate for the Hall of Very Good
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
He only has 158 homers because he sucked at everything other than hitting homers. If he would have been an every day player and still playing, he would easily pass 500, but he still wouldn’t even be a candidate for the Hall of Very Good
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And thus he was only a good enough player to amass 158 career homers. There is no world where he gets anywhere enough playing time to get 500.
 
Kburjr said:
I see the Hall of Fame as being the best of their era, the top 1-2%. Given that, there are 7-14 HOFers playing now. That none of them reach 500 HRs or 300 wins is immaterial.
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Your number is probably still a little low though. Think of it this way... in 1973 Willie Mays and Goose Gossage were both active future HoFers. But Goose was just getting started and Willie was wrapping things up so neither one looked anything like a HoFer.
 
DragonFromTo said:
Your number is probably still a little low though. Think of it this way... in 1973 Willie Mays and Goose Gossage were both active future HoFers. But Goose was just getting started and Willie was wrapping things up so neither one looked anything like a HoFer.
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I thought that after I posted. But then, how many players made the MLB over those years?

Or to put it another way are there 14 future HOFers playing now?
 
Kburjr said:
I thought that after I posted. But then, how many players made the MLB over those years?

Or to put it another way are there 14 future HOFers playing now?
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Cabrera and Trout are in, Pujols (PED-dependent) could be. Betts, Arenado, and Machado are headed in the right direction. Greinke, Kershaw, and Verlander are in as pitchers, Scherzer is close. DeGrom is headed there, don't know if Cole will get there.

So that's 5 guys going for sure, 2 case-dependent, and another 5 who are making very big statements for where they are in their careers. Too hard to project the young bucks.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Cabrera and Trout are in, Pujols (PED-dependent) could be. Betts, Arenado, and Machado are headed in the right direction. Greinke, Kershaw, and Verlander are in as pitchers, Scherzer is close. DeGrom is headed there, don't know if Cole will get there.

So that's 5 guys going for sure, 2 case-dependent, and another 5 who are making very big statements for where they are in their careers. Too hard to project the young bucks.
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Be an interesting study.
 
Cotton Malone said:
'WAR'. LOL.
Batting titles? OBP? Meh. Their career OPS and OPS+ are pretty even. Those two stats are a better gauge of a player's career value than single-season accomplishments.
"Lead the league in triples twice'. LOL. You know who else lead the league in triples? Evan Gattis.
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I find it funny when people laugh at a few individual stats and then makes a comparison based on one stat... You realize OPS and OPS+ are power stats... as they include SLUGGING...

Markakis was a decent power hitter in his career... Ashburn was a top of the order get on base guy...
 
Guy Incognito said:
Cabrera and Trout are in, Pujols (PED-dependent) could be. Betts, Arenado, and Machado are headed in the right direction. Greinke, Kershaw, and Verlander are in as pitchers, Scherzer is close. DeGrom is headed there, don't know if Cole will get there.

So that's 5 guys going for sure, 2 case-dependent, and another 5 who are making very big statements for where they are in their careers. Too hard to project the young bucks.
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How is Scherzer close, but Greinke in?? Scherzer is a shoe in... Greinke is on the border... Greinke is a Advanced stats are better than his standard Stats guy... Kind of like Mussina...
 
Guy Incognito said:
Cabrera and Trout are in, Pujols (PED-dependent) could be. Betts, Arenado, and Machado are headed in the right direction. Greinke, Kershaw, and Verlander are in as pitchers, Scherzer is close. DeGrom is headed there, don't know if Cole will get there.

So that's 5 guys going for sure, 2 case-dependent, and another 5 who are making very big statements for where they are in their careers. Too hard to project the young bucks.
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Arenado and Machado may be on the right track, but they still are a ways away... Betts is almost in already...
 
Kburjr said:
Be an interesting study.
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Dave Schoenfield wrote something about it as I recall (and it may not have been his own research) but I'd have to search for it. I will tell you this, there is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that there are more than 14 HoFers playing in MLB right now.
 
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