Big 12 thread

[Thiefery]

Any teams that can't play this Saturday ???

damn KSU gonna have to postpone right? But I heard the guy leaking it has been wrong about things.. a lot.

 

[Thiefery]

Not in my fucking house. You eat what you kill and if you miss then you go hungr

So I take it your household does not have the Dominoes pizza app?

 

[AlaskaGuy]

So I take it your household does not have the Dominoes pizza app?

He lives in a trailer park in Lee County.

 

[Handicappers]

Lol

the guy that lives in a shack making fun of trailer parks. Classic

 

[Deep Creek]

Yeah there does otherwise everyone just gets a participation trophy.

So you believe a few arbitrary criteria can accurately measure the quality of a university? Damn turkey, I guess we'll just have to disagree then.

 

[Wild Turkey]

So you believe a few arbitrary criteria can accurately measure the quality of a university? Damn turkey, I guess we'll just have to disagree then.

No but I think a reasonably proven formatted system using consistent criteria measured accurately across the board without bias can do a manageable job.

You can argue there shouldn’t be any system of measurement in place if you want but that doesn’t really work in the real world. In the academic mindset it makes a lot of sense in theory but the rest of us simply don’t give a shit.

We want a winner and a goal period. Academics want tolerance and a debate. Guess who gets to decide? We do.

 

[Wild Turkey]

He lives in a trailer park in Lee County.

You’re just jealous because I have a great job, a spouse of 25 years and successful children. Things that are out of your reach.

 

[Wild Turkey]

So I take it your household does not have the Dominoes pizza app?

My house has two kids on full scholarship taking care of business and achieving at very high levels.

 

[Deep Creek]

No but I think a reasonably proven formatted system using consistent criteria measured accurately across the board without bias can do a manageable job.

You can argue there shouldn’t be any system of measurement in place if you want but that doesn’t really work in the real world. In the academic mindset it makes a lot of sense in theory but the rest of us simply don’t give a shit.

We want a winner and a goal period. Academics want tolerance and a debate. Guess who gets to decide? We do.

I'll agree with you if any bias can be kept out. But I'm jaded, cynical and experienced to many "studies" that have allowed external pressure influence the decided on criteria in order to get the results that benefit that external pressure provider. Some brand has some shady peddlers that "get to" the actual humans conducting studies for JD Powers, Consumer Reports, Car and Driver etc. and "persuade" said humans to use specific criteria that will allow their product to come out on top. Start with the result they want to get and work backwards until they find the criteria that will give them what they wanted in the first place.

Skinner's Constant aka Flannegan's Finagling Factor - That quantity which, when multiplied by, divided by, added to, or subtracted from the answer you get, gives you the answer you should have gotten.

Seen this way too much in my day. And the normal driving force behind doing such is the potential for making a lot of money or losing a lot of money.

Like I said, my experiences have made me jaded, cyncial and leery regarding such things as this.

I want a winner too. But I'm not willing to sell my soul to the devil to get it. Some are.

 

[Codaxx]

You can kick Iowa State in the sports groin if you like, but they are a Major Research University and a member of the AAU (KU and Texas are the only other two AAU schools in the conference).

I am not trying to slam ISU. They belong in a P5 conference. The issue I am bringing up is that there are too many programs in the BIg 12 like ISU. There isn’t much of a balance in the Big 12. Only 40% of the league is flagship (Of their state) Universities and 2 of those are Kansas (poor recruiting ground and BB focused) and WV (really small population)

 

[Codaxx]

Yeah NFL really keep Titans rivalries in mind when they moved us away from our two historic rivals the Steelers and Ravens. We never played the Colts and the Texans were a new program at the time the new division was formed.

Odd I don’t remember the Oilers being huge rivals with the Browns.

 

[Goldbug]

For some reason I wouldn't have minded Kansas joining the B1G because that would have felt like a much more natural fit than Nebraska was. The Nebraska thing just feels like someone eloped and now they're trying to cover for the person they married.

 

[Wild Turkey]

I am not trying to slam ISU. They belong in a P5 conference. The issue I am bringing up is that there are too many programs in the BIg 12 like ISU. There isn’t much of a balance in the Big 12. Only 40% of the league is flagship (Of their state) Universities and 2 of those are Kansas (poor recruiting ground and BB focused) and WV (really small population)

You have to get over this Flagship University mentality because it is garbage.

If these schools decided to go to a different conference it would be a huge get:

Auburn
FSU
Virginia Tech
aTm
Duke
USC
Clemson
Miami
Georgia Tech
Arizona State
Notre Dame

The list goes on. What really matters is success, fan base size and the revenue generated by a program. The fact is the B12 packed itself with schools that don't have a history of success and then you created a have and have nots revenue sharing system that won't allow them to invest enough to succeed. Let's not pretend this isn't by design and orchestrated politically by Texas.

Reap what you sow.

 

[Goldbug]

You have to get over this Flagship University mentality because it is garbage.

If these schools decided to go to a different conference it would be a huge get:

Auburn
FSU
Virginia Tech
aTm
Duke
USC
Clemson
Miami
Georgia Tech
Arizona State
Notre Dame

The list goes on. What really matters is success, fan base size and the revenue generated by a program. The fact is the B12 packed itself with schools that don't have a history of success and then you created a have and have nots revenue sharing system that won't allow them to invest enough to succeed. Let's not pretend this isn't by design and orchestrated politically by Texas.

Reap what you sow.

Turkey, you just made a good point and I agree Texas had their thumb on the scales when the Big XII set everything up. But in all fairness, Oklahoma acquiesced.

 

[Wild Turkey]

Turkey, you just made a good point and I agree Texas had their thumb on the scales when the Big XII set everything up. But in all fairness, Oklahoma acquiesced.

True and I think that was a mistake.

Let's be honest and when you review the timing Texas orchestrated this to maximize their own revenue potential, got Oklahoma on bd and then none of the other members had much of a choice except leave, which 4 of them eventually did. I have zero doubt that if the revenue sharing had been equitable for all the members no one leaves and the conference is much stronger today.

Texas doing the LHN deal was the worst possible thing for the B12 and very advantageous for both the SEC and B1G. If that deal doesn't happen the whole landscape for the B12 looks a lot different and the conference is much healthier as a result.

I mean I'm sure it's great for Oklahoma to win the conference championship 13 times out of the last 20 but at the end of the day what have you really won? This will probably be your 6th in a row but haven't gotten out of the first round of the playoffs. The grind builds championship teams and that is something you are missing right now. The B12 needs Texas, Oklahoma, aTm and Nebraska pushing each other towards greatness or things get complicit.

 

[Codaxx]

Turkey, you just made a good point and I agree Texas had their thumb on the scales when the Big XII set everything up. But in all fairness, Oklahoma acquiesced.

actually the funny thing is Nebraska was the biggest beneficiary of unequal pay at the beginning of the Big 12. A&M actually threatened to walk after OU and Texas agreed to equal pay, only to leave the next year. I know people like to villainous Texas, but it is so much more complex. Schools do what is best for them and then spin. It is no different than regular people

 

[Codaxx]

Turkey, you just made a good point and I agree Texas had their thumb on the scales when the Big XII set everything up. But in all fairness, Oklahoma acquiesced.

The real issue was it wasn’t a big deal for a long time. There wasn’t much cash flowing back in the day, so 47%/53% split in revenue wasn’t going to make a huge difference. To pretend OU, Nebraska, Texas, and A&M were not on board with the plan is either amazingly naive or intellectually dishonest

 

[Thiefery]

True and I think that was a mistake.

Let's be honest and when you review the timing Texas orchestrated this to maximize their own revenue potential, got Oklahoma on bd and then none of the other members had much of a choice except leave, which 4 of them eventually did. I have zero doubt that if the revenue sharing had been equitable for all the members no one leaves and the conference is much stronger today.

Texas doing the LHN deal was the worst possible thing for the B12 and very advantageous for both the SEC and B1G. If that deal doesn't happen the whole landscape for the B12 looks a lot different and the conference is much healthier as a result.

I mean I'm sure it's great for Oklahoma to win the conference championship 13 times out of the last 20 but at the end of the day what have you really won? This will probably be your 6th in a row but haven't gotten out of the first round of the playoffs. The grind builds championship teams and that is something you are missing right now. The B12 needs Texas, Oklahoma, aTm and Nebraska pushing each other towards greatness or things get complicit.

you know Texas asked Beebe and Nebraska about a conference network.. but Tom O, said no thanks they were looking into a Husker network.. Texas then asked if aggy would want to create a Texas network with both programs featured, they said no..

They all laughed until ESPN threw 300 mil at it... But people want to blame the LHN channel, and the conference still makes more money than both the ACC and PAC conferences.

If USC really takes a look at this, you know what would drive them to make a huge move to the BIG 12? Having independent rights to it's tier 3 money. SC is a big enough name and has the numbers to create it's Trojan network with would probably command atleast 8-12 million dollars per year. Be it through an app or even an actual channel (which could work if they shared it with UCLA).

You think tosu won't get tired of seeing the same amount of money as Northwestern? Big 12 has it right, the bigger the name, the more you should get.

Tier 1 and 2 should be equally shared, I think the Big 12 teams get over 40 mil a season for that.. Then they can do what they want with it's 3rd tier rights.. Some get 15 mil or so (Texas), and some get 3 like KSU. I make fun of ou and it's PPV game but Fox still hands them 10 mil every year just for that in it's 3rd tier deal.

You can talk about ratings and how much better the SEC and BIG do, which is great.. but the BIG 12 is still #3 out of 5 P5 conferences... and they have the potential to add more schools, or stay as is. The conference is fine.

 

[Codaxx]

Just read an article from SI on all of this, some fun facts
1. Big 12 was Kansas States idea
2. Snyder wants to take the bottom of the Big 8 and SWC and form a league with a bowl contract
3. The merger later was to be 16 teams, but ESPN said they only wanted 4 from the SWC.
4. Originally it was Texas, A&M, Tech and Houston.. Then Texas politics got involved and Baylor trumped Houston

 

[Goldbug]

The real issue was it wasn’t a big deal for a long time. There wasn’t much cash flowing back in the day, so 47%/53% split in revenue wasn’t going to make a huge difference. To pretend OU, Nebraska, Texas, and A&M were not on board with the plan is either amazingly naive or intellectually dishonest

We have a group of 4 guys from different states (Texas fan, Oklahoma fan, TCU fan and Arkansas fan) who have done deals together for nearly 30 years. The first deal we ever did was done on the basis of a split we agreed to before things got off the ground. After the deal finally closed (some oil and gas wells around Abilene), we all went to dinner to celebrate. Without a word being said about the split, one of us suddenly said he didn't think he had earned his fair share and he was going to give up some of the action because he hadn't put in the amount of work and money than we originally had planned. Right then and there we all re-cut the deal and two of us ended up with a bigger share and two of us ended up with a smaller share than originally planned. We all knew instinctively these were people we wanted to keep around for the long term. I've lost count of how many times we've done this since then in a range of busineses and industries. We get together after something has closed and decide if the original cut was fair. Most of the times it was fair but occasionally there was something that happened (more/less time, more/less money or something else) to cause one or more of us to freely give up a portion of the pot to someone else who deserves it. Our wives don't dare question any of it because they know if one of us drops dead we will treat the surviving spouse just as fairly. (We have an Agreement sitting in the wings to take out any surviving spouse for a helluva fair amount since none of us wants to deal with a grieving widow over the long haul with all the stuff we have accumulated over the years.) Bottom line, we have a rare business relationship between friends. It's too much to ask insitutions to be like this because fairness doesn't go very far with most Universities who can only see about 10' down the road.