Perhaps you have a point. I’ll admit to that.Actually, you can have it both ways as these are different concerns/questions.
But, cases are just cases. If you shift the measurement to outcomes you have a completely different story
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Perhaps you have a point. I’ll admit to that.Actually, you can have it both ways as these are different concerns/questions.
The most amusing part about this site specifically, is that it's a sports site.
All of the sports leagues are like, what...97% "vaccinated"?
Yet it seems like a third of the athletes across all sports right now are on "covid lists"
OE is living in a world where he still thinks that a third of people testing positive (at the same time) is somehow a BREAKTHROUGH.
That's not a "breakthrough", it's a fucking failure.
Where did I mention Fauci specifically. All “officials” rolled out with what these shots would do. They fucked the messaging from the start, and that is the number one reason we have vaccine hesitancy and flat out refusal. I get that well….because I do read up on both sides adequately.You're all over the board, you need to upgrade that pragmatic lefty software. You're posting on and on about how the vaccine is "effective" and outcomes are different and shit, but then in your first sentence play the trolly "Awwww Fauci lied about the vaccine" thing.
Your posts are usually pretty logical, but you're being either intentionally trolly (which I wouldn't expect from you) or willfully ignorant and spouting the lefty narrative with no research.
I do not wish to speak for @Orlando_Eagles but you(or I for that matter) may have misinterpreted what he was calling bullshit. I took it as having "cases" the determining factor for deployment on a ship with a 100% vaccination rate. Probably not one of those cases, given the age, health, and vaccination status of the crew, will cause moderate or severe symptoms in any crewmember. Yet because there are "cases" they halted a deployment.And this is part of the problem I addressed in post #500. Too many people don't want to read certain articles because based on the headline they "knew it would be nonsensical shit like this" which most of the time simply means..."doesn't agree with my opinion".
So...the real life data...Along the same lines….I’m not buying a narrative that attacks the effectiveness for most that get the vaccine, and uses both cases as a measure along with the lies the “officials” give us.
Oh I fully agree. It’s a fucking failure of communication, not science.The most amusing part about this site specifically, is that it's a sports site.
All of the sports leagues are like, what...97% "vaccinated"?
Yet it seems like a third of the athletes across all sports right now are on "covid lists"
OE is living in a world where he still thinks that a third of people testing positive (at the same time) is somehow a BREAKTHROUGH.
That's not a "breakthrough", it's a fucking failure.
Another fair point. You and I don’t know each other, so I can’t expect you to understand how I read things.And this is part of the problem I addressed in post #500. Too many people don't want to read certain articles because based on the headline they "knew it would be nonsensical shit like this" which most of the time simply means..."doesn't agree with my opinion".
So...the real life data...
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Perhaps you have a point. I’ll admit to that.
But, cases are just cases. If you shift the measurement to outcomes you have a completely different story
If this were a cut and dried thing it would not be nearly as polarizing. But, it’s not. It’s a complex thing, made maddeningly complex by the bungling way every official channel has handled both the disease and the messaging on it.I do not wish to speak for @Orlando_Eagles but you(or I for that matter) may have misinterpreted what he was calling bullshit. I took it as having "cases" the determining factor for deployment on a ship with a 100% vaccination rate. Probably not one of those cases, given the age, health, and vaccination status of the crew, will cause moderate or severe symptoms in any crewmember. Yet because there are "cases" they halted a deployment.
Because of politics.And it's still almost entirely the same people who die from the flu every year...the elderly and those with comorbidities. A younger, relatively healthy person who is unvaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or higher, a young healthy person who is vaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or better.
If an elderly person/someone with comorbidities gets vaccinated, wears their mask and social distances, they are less likely to get it and more likely to survive if they do.
So given the above...why are we trying to force healthy people to get this vaccine?
Im not trying to force anyone to do fuck. I think the vaccine is grossly over applied and we are making a mistake doing this. From a personal standpoint….I got both shots last spring. I’ve debated with myself since then whether I should have taken tor not. I’m in my own internal debate right now if I even get a booster (currently I’m at “probably not”).And it's still almost entirely the same people who die from the flu every year...the elderly and those with comorbidities. A younger, relatively healthy person who is unvaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or higher, a young healthy person who is vaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or better.
If an elderly person/someone with comorbidities gets vaccinated, wears their mask and social distances, they are less likely to get it and more likely to survive if they do.
So given the above...why are we trying to force healthy people to get this vaccine?
I think that essentially the goals surrounding the virus have had to adjust as the population either changes their approach or because the virus is changing.No. It hasn’t. And that’s absolutely where the issues are IMO.
there is an unknown as to whether you know you are healthy or not.And it's still almost entirely the same people who die from the flu every year...the elderly and those with comorbidities. A younger, relatively healthy person who is unvaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or higher, a young healthy person who is vaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or better.
If an elderly person/someone with comorbidities gets vaccinated, wears their mask and social distances, they are less likely to get it and more likely to survive if they do.
So given the above...why are we trying to force healthy people to get this vaccine?
Wrong.there is an unknown as to whether you know you are healthy or not.
but also, the vaccine cuts down on how contagious a carrier is because it cuts down on how long you are contagious as well as your body fights the virus back quicker...slowing the spread.
And that’s realistic and acceptable. But, this thing has been so out of whack I can’t even tell where those realistic and acceptable changes in approach should be.I think that essentially the goals surrounding the virus have had to adjust as the population either changes their approach or because the virus is changing.
No, that’s right. It’s silly it’s still debated.Wrong.
Sure the virus is changing. It's changing to a weaker strain.I think that essentially the goals surrounding the virus have had to adjust as the population either changes their approach or because the virus is changing.
This I can agree with.The point is that all @ill said there isn’t reason to force or compel people to do something they don’t want to do.
Im not trying to force anyone to do fuck.
I think the vaccine is grossly over applied and we are making a mistake doing this. From a personal standpoint….I got both shots last spring. I’ve debated with myself since then whether I should have taken tor not. I’m in my own internal debate right now if I even get a booster (currently I’m at “probably not”).
My responses today, specific to the case of this ship (or any sports league in the same regard) is less about forcing vaccinations on a populace that doesn’t need them, but in response to any underlying points that the vaccine doesn’t create positive outcomes when applied. Overall it does.
It’s not the science that’s failing, it’s public policy.