Have to cancel our Christmas Eve party.

[DraftNerd]

Actually, you can have it both ways as these are different concerns/questions.

Perhaps you have a point. I’ll admit to that.

But, cases are just cases. If you shift the measurement to outcomes you have a completely different story

 

[White Knight]

The most amusing part about this site specifically, is that it's a sports site.

All of the sports leagues are like, what...97% "vaccinated"?

Yet it seems like a third of the athletes across all sports right now are on "covid lists"

OE is living in a world where he still thinks that a third of people testing positive (at the same time) is somehow a BREAKTHROUGH.

That's not a "breakthrough", it's a fucking failure.

 

[DraftNerd]

You're all over the board, you need to upgrade that pragmatic lefty software. You're posting on and on about how the vaccine is "effective" and outcomes are different and shit, but then in your first sentence play the trolly "Awwww Fauci lied about the vaccine" thing.

Your posts are usually pretty logical, but you're being either intentionally trolly (which I wouldn't expect from you) or willfully ignorant and spouting the lefty narrative with no research.

Where did I mention Fauci specifically. All “officials” rolled out with what these shots would do. They fucked the messaging from the start, and that is the number one reason we have vaccine hesitancy and flat out refusal. I get that well….because I do read up on both sides adequately.

And, as a result, I don’t want to hear a fucking thing the “officials” have to say. They lost that with the way they’ve handled messaging through this. They’ve lost that when many of them pulled the elitist “do as I say, not as I do” bullshit.

Along the same lines….I’m not buying a narrative that attacks the effectiveness for most that get the vaccine, and uses both cases as a measure along with the lies the “officials” give us.

I’m sorry if that’s “lefty software” to you…I really can’t help you with that, brother.

 

[batchaps4me]

And this is part of the problem I addressed in post #500. Too many people don't want to read certain articles because based on the headline they "knew it would be nonsensical shit like this" which most of the time simply means..."doesn't agree with my opinion".

I do not wish to speak for @Orlando_Eagles but you(or I for that matter) may have misinterpreted what he was calling bullshit. I took it as having "cases" the determining factor for deployment on a ship with a 100% vaccination rate. Probably not one of those cases, given the age, health, and vaccination status of the crew, will cause moderate or severe symptoms in any crewmember. Yet because there are "cases" they halted a deployment.

 

[Deep Dish Pizza Goat]

Along the same lines….I’m not buying a narrative that attacks the effectiveness for most that get the vaccine, and uses both cases as a measure along with the lies the “officials” give us.

So...the real life data...

 

[DraftNerd]

The most amusing part about this site specifically, is that it's a sports site.

All of the sports leagues are like, what...97% "vaccinated"?

Yet it seems like a third of the athletes across all sports right now are on "covid lists"

OE is living in a world where he still thinks that a third of people testing positive (at the same time) is somehow a BREAKTHROUGH.

That's not a "breakthrough", it's a fucking failure.

Oh I fully agree. It’s a fucking failure of communication, not science.

And I wasn’t tossing the work breakthrough around, nor fully capping the word.

 

[DraftNerd]

And this is part of the problem I addressed in post #500. Too many people don't want to read certain articles because based on the headline they "knew it would be nonsensical shit like this" which most of the time simply means..."doesn't agree with my opinion".

Another fair point. You and I don’t know each other, so I can’t expect you to understand how I read things.

A year ago I left the PF as I felt I was falling to heavily into one narrative, and that’s dangerous. Since then I worked to change my media consumption to read on topics from both sides.

When I say I didn’t even read it….that was not admittance of it not meeting my opinions and beliefs….I didn’t read it as I was certain it would say something like “the whole ship is vaccinated, but being quarantined anyway, because cases, yada yada”.

And I’m just sick of reading the “official” positions like this that only further confirm the conspiracies and mistrust. And you really don’t have to at this point to see where the points of contention are coming from anymore.

 

[DraftNerd]

So...the real life data...

 

[trojanfan12]

Perhaps you have a point. I’ll admit to that.

But, cases are just cases. If you shift the measurement to outcomes you have a completely different story

And it's still almost entirely the same people who die from the flu every year...the elderly and those with comorbidities. A younger, relatively healthy person who is unvaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or higher, a young healthy person who is vaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or better.

If an elderly person/someone with comorbidities gets vaccinated, wears their mask and social distances, they are less likely to get it and more likely to survive if they do.

So given the above...why are we trying to force healthy people to get this vaccine?

 

[DraftNerd]

I do not wish to speak for @Orlando_Eagles but you(or I for that matter) may have misinterpreted what he was calling bullshit. I took it as having "cases" the determining factor for deployment on a ship with a 100% vaccination rate. Probably not one of those cases, given the age, health, and vaccination status of the crew, will cause moderate or severe symptoms in any crewmember. Yet because there are "cases" they halted a deployment.

If this were a cut and dried thing it would not be nearly as polarizing. But, it’s not. It’s a complex thing, made maddeningly complex by the bungling way every official channel has handled both the disease and the messaging on it.

Perhaps even a fully vaccinated crew of sailors getting a lot of cases simply means that enough of them are ill enough in the short term to not being able to adequately perform their duties. In that case it would make sense to delay the deployment.

But, to you point….based on their age and likely general health they will have positive outcomes. And at least one young and healthy vaccinated solider will have comorbidities that creates a not so positive outcome. That alone could be a compelling reason to keep them close to base and facilities.

And this is before I even get into the fact that this IS a ship that is 100% vaccinated, meaning that unvaccinated sailors were taken off duty due to their vaccination status. And that’s bullshit.

 

[White Knight]

And it's still almost entirely the same people who die from the flu every year...the elderly and those with comorbidities. A younger, relatively healthy person who is unvaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or higher, a young healthy person who is vaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or better.

If an elderly person/someone with comorbidities gets vaccinated, wears their mask and social distances, they are less likely to get it and more likely to survive if they do.

So given the above...why are we trying to force healthy people to get this vaccine?

Because of politics.

 

[DraftNerd]

And it's still almost entirely the same people who die from the flu every year...the elderly and those with comorbidities. A younger, relatively healthy person who is unvaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or higher, a young healthy person who is vaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or better.

If an elderly person/someone with comorbidities gets vaccinated, wears their mask and social distances, they are less likely to get it and more likely to survive if they do.

So given the above...why are we trying to force healthy people to get this vaccine?

Im not trying to force anyone to do fuck. I think the vaccine is grossly over applied and we are making a mistake doing this. From a personal standpoint….I got both shots last spring. I’ve debated with myself since then whether I should have taken tor not. I’m in my own internal debate right now if I even get a booster (currently I’m at “probably not”).

My responses today, specific to the case of this ship (or any sports league in the same regard) is less about forcing vaccinations on a populace that doesn’t need them, but in response to any underlying points that the vaccine doesn’t create positive outcomes when applied. Overall it does.

It’s not the science that’s failing, it’s public policy.

 

[ill]

No. It hasn’t. And that’s absolutely where the issues are IMO.

I think that essentially the goals surrounding the virus have had to adjust as the population either changes their approach or because the virus is changing.

 

[ill]

And it's still almost entirely the same people who die from the flu every year...the elderly and those with comorbidities. A younger, relatively healthy person who is unvaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or higher, a young healthy person who is vaccinated has a survival rate of 99% or better.

If an elderly person/someone with comorbidities gets vaccinated, wears their mask and social distances, they are less likely to get it and more likely to survive if they do.

So given the above...why are we trying to force healthy people to get this vaccine?

there is an unknown as to whether you know you are healthy or not.

but also, the vaccine cuts down on how contagious a carrier is because it cuts down on how long you are contagious as well as your body fights the virus back quicker...slowing the spread.

 

[White Knight]

there is an unknown as to whether you know you are healthy or not.

but also, the vaccine cuts down on how contagious a carrier is because it cuts down on how long you are contagious as well as your body fights the virus back quicker...slowing the spread.

Wrong.

 

[DraftNerd]

I think that essentially the goals surrounding the virus have had to adjust as the population either changes their approach or because the virus is changing.

And that’s realistic and acceptable. But, this thing has been so out of whack I can’t even tell where those realistic and acceptable changes in approach should be.

I’m not saying this as some ultimate conspiracy of leaders and the elite against us. I think this was a failure of imagination in all the practice and role playing exercises they did pre-pandemic, combined with a rigid resistance to right setting the messaging that is going out to us.

 

[DraftNerd]

Wrong.

No, that’s right. It’s silly it’s still debated.

The point is that all @ill said there isn’t reason to force or compel people to do something they don’t want to do.

 

[White Knight]

I think that essentially the goals surrounding the virus have had to adjust as the population either changes their approach or because the virus is changing.

Sure the virus is changing. It's changing to a weaker strain.

 

[White Knight]

The point is that all @ill said there isn’t reason to force or compel people to do something they don’t want to do.

This I can agree with.

 

[trojanfan12]

Im not trying to force anyone to do fuck.

Oh, I know you're not. But many politicians are and there are many on the left that agree with forced vaccinations.

I think the vaccine is grossly over applied and we are making a mistake doing this. From a personal standpoint….I got both shots last spring. I’ve debated with myself since then whether I should have taken tor not. I’m in my own internal debate right now if I even get a booster (currently I’m at “probably not”).

You and I are 100% in agreement on this. I have been blessed with a very strong immune system. So I didn't feel that I needed the vaccine for myself. However, I have 4 people in my life that are in the at risk group and since I am one that even if I got Covid, it's unlikely that I would have symptoms...I decided to get vaccinated for them. I am, however, dragging my feet on the booster.

My responses today, specific to the case of this ship (or any sports league in the same regard) is less about forcing vaccinations on a populace that doesn’t need them, but in response to any underlying points that the vaccine doesn’t create positive outcomes when applied. Overall it does.

It’s not the science that’s failing, it’s public policy.

Pretty much agree with all of this.