Big 12 announces Bob Bowlsby will step down as commissioner later this year

Thiefery said:
the power brokers never were in full alignment..it was a conference founded on desperation.. Big8 was dying, SWC was dying. It was a good conference but it's tough to keep everyone happy when the big schools ALL agreed to unequal revenue. Not just that, they couldn't agree on the championship games. It was a rotation between St Louis and cities in TX ( San Antonio, Houston, Dallas).. which were bigger money deals.

Then later when Texas was doing good, you had other schools think the conference was too Texas-centric. Like it was ok for ou to be getting blown out in BCS title games. Mix in the AD in Osborne thinking Nebraska was getting jibbed all the time fair or not. Think the last straw was seeing Iowa St/KSU/KU/osu begin to vote with UT instead of sticking with the core Big8 aka Nebraska's way.

As much blame as the LHN network got, there were emails proving that DeLoss told Bebe that they needed to do a conference network for it's tier 3 rights. Beebe like it and met with NU, and they nixed it. Beebe told it was a no go, and that NU was already exploring it's own platform for it's tier 3. UT then later asked aggy and the rest was history on how this all played out.

If anything the real blame should be on the shoulders of the ADs for acting like this was a game of RISK, or at the very least the poor leadership of the then commissioner Dan Beebe
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Asked Aggie to pay for the majority share of the network costs for a minor share in the revenue. If you tell the story, tell the whole story :suds:
 
Goldbug said:
I'd put TCU and Iowa State on that list too; they have ponied up a lot of money to improve their football programs. But bottom line, it's unreasonable to get too upset that Oklahoma and Texas decided to join the SEC for all the additional revenue they will earn. True, it might be harder for Oklahoma to win with the same consistency we have enjoyed over the past few years (with the exception of Muleshoe's last year when OU was pathetic and regressed even more while our hot shot QB steadily got worse at the end of the season but I digress) and Texas has under performed miserably for years. But having a couple of years to get ready for a SEC football schedule could be enough to see OU and Texas do well as soon as they make the jump. Sometimes people, schools and even nations just move on and leave others behind. It sucks for the remaining members of the Irate 8. There's no doubt about that. But screw Kansas. And Jr. getting an attitude and threatening to drop Bedlam is about as stupid as you can get.
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I can agree to your post. I think the anger should have been more directed at Colorado and Nebraska who started the downfall of the Big12 by leaving first.
 
Deep Creek said:
Quite the opposite. I don't look down on MSU at all. I just use them as an SEC example. Every conference has similar teams. I'm for the underdog...a UTEP fan HAS TO BE! It is all we know. Besides MSU has The Pirate. That makes 'em likeable even if they weren't underdogs.

I just don't think MSU is any more (or less) valuable to a conference than say an Iowa State or an NC State is. Yet they reap far more benefits.

I agree 100% about ignoring what it is all about...and not just college football. But, if conferences aren't pursuing "super" status, why are they expanding and getting so large?
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Conferences pursue expansion when it makes sense financially and otherwise. They aren’t expanding to just be big, and they aren’t kicking out teams that have been in conference for over 100 years. TX and OU was a no-brainer. There isn’t a conference in the P5 that wouldn’t have taken them. But, they weren’t going to add a couple random schools just to get bigger.

As for the future, I can see a few scenarios that might result in expansion and re-alignment. The first is that we get a clean break from teams that want to go full NIL and those that want to have student athletes really be athletes that are students. This isn’t really a P5/G5 split, although it might break that way. It’s more of split that the Ivies. I really don’t see this happening where you get a NIL split, although I can see a G5/P5 split for a G5 playoff.

The other scenario is if the SEC and the B1G end up doing what is projected - get more than twice per year what each of the other conferences get. I can then see the top teams from the ACC and the PAC jumping to the B1G and the SEC and then the CFP splitting with those two conferences and then all the others that would be the equivalent of the G5. Let’s say that USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington move to the B1G. Then UVA and UNC move to the B1G. Then Clemson, Miami, FSU and NC State move to the SEC. Don’t get hung up on the teams … but that would leave two 18 team conferences with basically all the good teams in it. They would then get triple the TV money that they other now weakened conferences would get. Now you would have a 36 team CFP pool, with a lot of NIL, etc.

I hope none of this happens in my lifetime. I love the tradition of the SEC, and I would hate to see CU, FSU and Miami in the SEC. It won’t happen until 2036 at the earliest due to the ACC contract and GOR.
 
Volbound1700 said:
I have friends and relatives that grew up cheering for Vandy. The constant conversation was about whether Vanderbilt should stay in the SEC or not.

My Uncle use to chime that they should go form a league with other private schools such as Duke, Wake Forest, Baylor (who was bad back then), Tulane, Northwestern, etc. They are not competitive.

They also don't bring any new markets. Tennessee brings the Nashville market more than Vanderbilt and if they left the SEC, tomorrow, they would not be missed from a revenue generation standpoint.

Maybe their academics would be missed but this isn't academics, this is athletics.
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With all due respect to your relatives and friends, they aren’t too smart when it comes to college athletics. No school is voluntarily abandoning the tens of millions, about to be hundreds of millions that the SEC members get. Vanderbilt will never win a natty, but neither will 98% of all other CFB teams. All Vandy has to do us be competitive enough to win 6-9 games per year and alumnus will be pleased.

Here we go with Vandy not bringing new markets. How many times do I have to type this … a team that is already in a conference doesn’t have to bring in new markets. They are a market already in the conference.

When looking at bringing in a new member, I agree for the SEC academics is secondary. When it comes to existing teams ALREADY IN THE CONFERENCE, the academics of Vanderbilt is a welcome plus.
 
Volbound1700 said:
Name one major SEC power that is considered a historical basketball power other than Kentucky? I guess you have Florida with Donovan and Arkansas with Nolan Richardson but that is about it. We are no way on the level of other leagues in basketball such as the ACC. We have been great lately but we need to show sustained success to be considered a great basketball conference.

The SEC doesn't have a good reputation in Basketball. Part of it is due to the bad performance in the post season. Tennessee is one of the worse offenders, we regularly are competitive all season but then bow out early when March pressure hits us.

We got 6 teams into the tournament (Arkansas, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Kentucky, and LSU). Out of those 6, only 3 made it out of the first round despite all 6 being the higher seed in the opening week. Not good. B1G got 9 teams and they fell flat like the SEC as well and didn't have any teams in the Elite 8 (at least Arkansas made Elite 8 for SEC. Arkansas was the only team that really showed up for March Madness from the SEC).
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I never claimed there were historical basketball powers in the SEC. I simply pointed out that they are a much better basketball conference than you gave it credit for. I stand by that.
 
Deep Creek said:
....and several bad ones in it as well.
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That’s a given. There isn’t a sports league in the world that doesn’t have bad teams. CFB is no different, and college sports makes it more likely where a team plays multiple sports and may be terrible at one and great at another. Think Duke in hoops, Stanford at Olympic sports, MsSU at baseball, Vandy at baseball and women’s bowling. I really enjoy your posting but this is a really weird bill you seem to want to die on.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
That’s a given. There isn’t a sports league in the world that doesn’t have bad teams. CFB is no different, and college sports makes it more likely where a team plays multiple sports and may be terrible at one and great at another. Think Duke in hoops, Stanford at Olympic sports, MsSU at baseball, Vandy at baseball and women’s bowling. I really enjoy your posting but this is a really weird bill you seem to want to die on.
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Dying on a hill? Nope, bantering on a CFB discussion board.

Just pointing out that being a member of an elite country club doesn't make you a scratch golfer. Lots of high handicappers at elite country clubs...but they are members all the same.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Conferences pursue expansion when it makes sense financially and otherwise. They aren’t expanding to just be big, and they aren’t kicking out teams that have been in conference for over 100 years. TX and OU was a no-brainer. There isn’t a conference in the P5 that wouldn’t have taken them. But, they weren’t going to add a couple random schools just to get bigger.

As for the future, I can see a few scenarios that might result in expansion and re-alignment. The first is that we get a clean break from teams that want to go full NIL and those that want to have student athletes really be athletes that are students. This isn’t really a P5/G5 split, although it might break that way. It’s more of split that the Ivies. I really don’t see this happening where you get a NIL split, although I can see a G5/P5 split for a G5 playoff.

The other scenario is if the SEC and the B1G end up doing what is projected - get more than twice per year what each of the other conferences get. I can then see the top teams from the ACC and the PAC jumping to the B1G and the SEC and then the CFP splitting with those two conferences and then all the others that would be the equivalent of the G5. Let’s say that USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington move to the B1G. Then UVA and UNC move to the B1G. Then Clemson, Miami, FSU and NC State move to the SEC. Don’t get hung up on the teams … but that would leave two 18 team conferences with basically all the good teams in it. They would then get triple the TV money that they other now weakened conferences would get. Now you would have a 36 team CFP pool, with a lot of NIL, etc.

I hope none of this happens in my lifetime. I love the tradition of the SEC, and I would hate to see CU, FSU and Miami in the SEC. It won’t happen until 2036 at the earliest due to the ACC contract and GOR.
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I don't think the SEC would get Miami. Virginia Tech would be a better pick up. Miami just doesn't have the fanbase and they haven't been relevant in over two decades.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
With all due respect to your relatives and friends, they aren’t too smart when it comes to college athletics. No school is voluntarily abandoning the tens of millions, about to be hundreds of millions that the SEC members get. Vanderbilt will never win a natty, but neither will 98% of all other CFB teams. All Vandy has to do us be competitive enough to win 6-9 games per year and alumnus will be pleased.

Here we go with Vandy not bringing new markets. How many times do I have to type this … a team that is already in a conference doesn’t have to bring in new markets. They are a market already in the conference.

When looking at bringing in a new member, I agree for the SEC academics is secondary. When it comes to existing teams ALREADY IN THE CONFERENCE, the academics of Vanderbilt is a welcome plus.
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It is partially because they see the writing on the wall. Vanderbilt isn't competitive and never will be competitive. They won't get another James Franklin anytime soon. They went almost 20 years without making a bowl game or having a winning season. Until the Bobby Johnson and Franklin eras. They look like they are going back in that direction. They cannot win 6 games unless they strike lightning in the bottle hires.

You take the worse 3 seasons in Tennessee's current drought and Tennessee still has more wins than Vanderbilt has had the past 3 seasons. Let that sink in. Vanderbilt is just not competitive AT ALL anymore.
 
Volbound1700 said:
It is partially because they see the writing on the wall. Vanderbilt isn't competitive and never will be competitive. They won't get another James Franklin anytime soon. They went almost 20 years without making a bowl game or having a winning season. Until the Bobby Johnson and Franklin eras. They look like they are going back in that direction. They cannot win 6 games unless they strike lightning in the bottle hires.

You take the worse 3 seasons in Tennessee's current drought and Tennessee still has more wins than Vanderbilt has had the past 3 seasons. Let that sink in. Vanderbilt is just not competitive AT ALL anymore.
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Lol, we just had a run where we beat you 5 out of 7 times. But we aren’t competitive you say … thankfully we had you to give us a guaranteed win. Let that sink in.

For someone who has family that went to Vandy, you don’t get it. No one walks away from a hundred million per year payout. No. One. That money will be used for hoops and other sports to get more competitive in those.

Of the 132 CFB teams, 15 at most can ever hope to win a national championship. Way less in any given year. All Vandy has to do is win 2 of 3 NC games, and then 4 or more SEC games. That’s a great year. We don’t have expectations to do otherwise and will enjoy going to an occasional bowl.

Finally, I’ve posted this before … we are not going in the wrong direction. Our share will be bigger than ever bringing in over a hundred million by 2026; we have a new Chancellor who is sports focused, who went to Stanford and is a Chicago sports fan; and we are in the midst of a 300 million dollar sports facility improvement. Maybe we can’t become Stanford of the East in sports, but we are trying.

For good measure, Vanderbilt has 4 athletic national championships since UTJr won it’s last national championship. Maybe you should worry about taking care of your own business and let Vandy do what it is doing as it is working better than the mess you are in.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Lol, we just had a run where we beat you 5 out of 7 times. But we aren’t competitive you say … thankfully we had you to give us a guaranteed win. Let that sink in.

For someone who has family that went to Vandy, you don’t get it. No one walks away from a hundred million per year payout. No. One. That money will be used for hoops and other sports to get more competitive in those.

Of the 132 CFB teams, 15 at most can ever hope to win a national championship. Way less in any given year. All Vandy has to do is win 2 of 3 NC games, and then 4 or more SEC games. That’s a great year. We don’t have expectations to do otherwise and will enjoy going to an occasional bowl.

Finally, I’ve posted this before … we are not going in the wrong direction. Our share will be bigger than ever bringing in over a hundred million by 2026; we have a new Chancellor who is sports focused, who went to Stanford and is a Chicago sports fan; and we are in the midst of a 300 million dollar sports facility improvement. Maybe we can’t become Stanford of the East in sports, but we are trying.

For good measure, Vanderbilt has 4 athletic national championships since UTJr won it’s last national championship. Maybe you should worry about taking care of your own business and let Vandy do what it is doing as it is working better than the mess you are in.
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Vanderbilt hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2017

Vanderbilt's last three season football records are the following: 3-9, 0-9, 2-10

You take the worse 3-year run in Tennessee history which was in the Dooley era/Butch Jones first year was 15-21

Compare that to 5-28 the last 3 years for Vanderbilt.

Let's discuss Vanderbilt's 73-30-5 record all-time against Tennessee or the fact that you got 8 wins in the last 50 years. From Wikipedia: "From the 1928 season on, UT has dominated the rivalry with numerous win streaks and a record of 71–10–2 (.867)." 10 wins since 1928!

Does Vanderbilt have a winning record against anyone in the SEC? I guess Texas when they join so you can hang your hate on that.

Vanderbilt is a shit show in everything but Baseball right now (and very few people even watch or care about College Baseball since most players go straight to the pros). Don't sugar coat it. They don't belong in the SEC and provide little value outside of Academics. Even then, they aren't as good as a school like Stanford and at least Stanford has won its conference and had top 10 teams. Hell, Northwestern and Duke have both been better in football lately than Vanderbilt. Yet, they always use the Academics as an excuse not to win. No, it is because their stadium sucks, they have no fans (their fans bandwagon other teams), and they have no desire to win.

Great school, not a great football program.
 
Volbound1700 said:
Vanderbilt hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2017

Vanderbilt's last three season football records are the following: 3-9, 0-9, 2-10

You take the worse 3-year run in Tennessee history which was in the Dooley era/Butch Jones first year was 15-21

Compare that to 5-28 the last 3 years for Vanderbilt.

Let's discuss Vanderbilt's 73-30-5 record all-time against Tennessee or the fact that you got 8 wins in the last 50 years. From Wikipedia: "From the 1928 season on, UT has dominated the rivalry with numerous win streaks and a record of 71–10–2 (.867)." 10 wins since 1928!

Does Vanderbilt have a winning record against anyone in the SEC? I guess Texas when they join so you can hang your hate on that.

Vanderbilt is a shit show in everything but Baseball right now (and very few people even watch or care about College Baseball since most players go straight to the pros). Don't sugar coat it. They don't belong in the SEC and provide little value outside of Academics. Even then, they aren't as good as a school like Stanford and at least Stanford has won its conference and had top 10 teams. Hell, Northwestern and Duke have both been better in football lately than Vanderbilt. Yet, they always use the Academics as an excuse not to win. No, it is because their stadium sucks, they have no fans (their fans bandwagon other teams), and they have no desire to win.

Great school, not a great football program.
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A UTJr fan getting all butt hurt over Vandy … that what happens when when we beat you 5 times in 7 years.

You also totally ignored many of my points, including our investment of 300 million, our new Chancellor, and the fact that we have 4 natties since you won your last. Win some natties and the then get back to me, Until then, as much as much as kills you and “your family of Vandy fans” we ain’t going anywhere and will get the same exact share you get for not winning natties.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
A UTJr fan getting all butt hurt over Vandy … that what happens when when we beat you 5 times in 7 years.

You also totally ignored many of my points, including our investment of 300 million, our new Chancellor, and the fact that we have 4 natties since you won your last. Win some natties and the then get back to me, Until then, as much as much as kills you and “your family of Vandy fans” we ain’t going anywhere and will get the same exact share you get for not winning natties.
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This is not even correct because we beat Vanderbilt in 2021, 2020, and 2019. It is impossible to be 5-7 based on those facts. You are taking that one 3-year run by Vanderbilt when Tennessee went 9-4 (late season choke, hey we beat UGA that year though :)), 4-8, and 5-7. Basically Butch Jone's last two years and Pruitt's first season. Well that streak is now further and further away.

That is literally 30% of Vanderbilt's wins over Tennessee since the Great Depression. Let that sink in. In my lifetime, Vanderbilt has a combined four winning seasons. Bobby Johnson's one season when they went to Music City Bowl and beat Boston College (I was at that game) and the three seasons under James Franklin.

4 winning seasons in my lifetime! I was born in the 1980s. Vanderbilt doesn't belong in the SEC and you know it. They are a nice little homecoming win but they are one of the worse programs in all of FBS.

As stated, the school is excellent. The Hospital probably saved my dad's life. I had several Vandy professors that helped me out when I first got out of school and was looking for jobs despite never going to school at Vandy. My sister went there for graduate school. I have friends that went to Vandy. They are a major force in Middle Tennessee but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to how bad their football program is. Maybe if Penn State fires Franklin, they can get him back. That might be there only chance.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
I never claimed there were historical basketball powers in the SEC. I simply pointed out that they are a much better basketball conference than you gave it credit for. I stand by that.
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I think you missed the point that I was trying to make about Basketball.

I have always felt that is a MAJOR missed opportunity for Vanderbilt. In the 1990s, they should have invested heavily in Basketball and become the Duke of the SEC. The SEC doesn't have the traditional powers you see in other leagues and Vanderbilt could have made a major splash with that sport. Vanderbilt actually has a decent following for Basketball and a great Arena.

Yet Vanderbilt is even in the bottom half ALL-TIME of the SEC with its Basketball program. No Final Fours, only 5 Conference Championships (combining both Tournament and Regular Season SEC Titles going back to 1933), and less than 20 NCAA Appearances.

To me, Basketball should have been Vanderbilt's sport to shine in. It baffles me that Vanderbilt is uncompetitive in that sport. Private Schools generally tend to do well in that sport (look at the Big East as an example).
 
Volbound1700 said:
This is not even correct because we beat Vanderbilt in 2021, 2020, and 2019. It is impossible to be 5-7 based on those facts. You are taking that one 3-year run by Vanderbilt when Tennessee went 9-4 (late season choke, hey we beat UGA that year though :)), 4-8, and 5-7. Basically Butch Jone's last two years and Pruitt's first season. Well that streak is now further and further away.

That is literally 30% of Vanderbilt's wins over Tennessee since the Great Depression. Let that sink in. In my lifetime, Vanderbilt has a combined four winning seasons. Bobby Johnson's one season when they went to Music City Bowl and beat Boston College (I was at that game) and the three seasons under James Franklin.

4 winning seasons in my lifetime! I was born in the 1980s. Vanderbilt doesn't belong in the SEC and you know it. They are a nice little homecoming win but they are one of the worse programs in all of FBS.

As stated, the school is excellent. The Hospital probably saved my dad's life. I had several Vandy professors that helped me out when I first got out of school and was looking for jobs despite never going to school at Vandy. My sister went there for graduate school. I have friends that went to Vandy. They are a major force in Middle Tennessee but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to how bad their football program is. Maybe if Penn State fires Franklin, they can get him back. That might be there only chance.
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wiki is easy … from 2012-2018 we beat you 5 times, lost twice. Fact. How is that possible if we are so bad and you are so good?

All you keep saying yet we will keep getting the same cut every year and adding more natties while you don’t.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
wiki is easy … from 2012-2018 we beat you 5 times, lost twice. Fact. How is that possible if we are so bad and you are so good?

All you keep saying yet we will keep getting the same cut every year and adding more natties while you don’t.
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LOL anyone can take a period of years. From 1990-2004, Tennessee beat Vanderbilt every year.

Despite Tennessee having its worse run in history, they are still significantly better than Vanderbilt in that span.

Vanderbilt has had 4 winning seasons in the past 30 years. No one in the SEC, even the worse programs like Mississippi State or Kentucky are near that bad. It isn't even close how far Vanderbilt is behind the rest of the SEC. That is why I say they really don't belong. That and the fact that they have literally no fans.
 
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