Why the SEC doesn't want FSU and Clemson ...

Tomhusker said:
FSU and Clemson would be great additions to the B1G. Adding another region to the conference footprint could only mean more money.
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those aren't bringing in more money to bump up the yearly payments
 
Tomhusker said:
Nobody watches FSU and Clemson?
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not enough to bump up the current payout each school gets.. hell they didn't get that with the additions of udub/Oregon either

The only school remaining that could not only add to the pool but increase each school share is ND
 
Tomhusker said:
Nobody watches FSU and Clemson?
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Nobody cared about Clemson 15 years ago.

and tbh, when schools like Texas and USC are down people still care enough to lol at them. When FSU is down, nobody really cares. Outside of Florida fans.
 
Thiefery said:
not enough to bump up the current payout each school gets.. hell they didn't get that with the additions of udub/Oregon either

The only school remaining that could not only add to the pool but increase each school share is ND
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I agree. There are already enough raking in a hell of a lot more than they generate. The bottom feeders in the P2. The ACC and Big through the CFP percentage. Same for the payouts to the G5.

But the real generators don't seem to mind subsidizing them at all. So why not a few more in your P2 conference? Isn't the end game to get to two 20 team power conferences?
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
This is just not true. The strawman that media partners control the SEC and B1G is some serious misstatement as to what it really going on. Sure, it's true that media partners have to agree to add someone the conference wants. But the idea that a media partner is going to go to the SEC/B1G and say you have to take so and so is absurd, IMO.

The NFL has a lot of losses because of parity which is baked into the business model. It's not baked into CFB and never can be because you can never make a player go play in Toledo or Minneapolis unless they want to. There will never be a situation where some schools ever have a chance of winning a conference or a national title. What's important is that they win enough to keep fan interest. Adding more good teams to the SEC doesn't do that where they are today.
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The media partners do not FORCE conferences to add this or that school, the conferences do that themselves to make their conference more money from the media partners. The media partners then pay more money for a more valuable product. Always remember, it’s the job of the conference leadership to put/keep their conference in the best possible position, not the media partner.


Tomhusker said:
Nobody watches FSU and Clemson?
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particularly in games vs other big brands vs for instance Georgia vs Vandy? :laugh:

No, only way FSU and Clemson don’t end up in the SEC now is:

1. FOX / BIG want in the southeast bad enough and outbid ESPN/Disney which is entirely possible and btw yes will most definitely hurt the SEC long term so the SEC needs to make an effort to keep them out of their territory, particularly since the BIG/FOX have cornered the LA market.

2. The ACC devises/has a look in in its media deal for an unequal revenue plan that satisfies FSU/Clemson ect. At least for the time being.

JMO, but I think the ACC sees the writing on the wall similar to how the Big12 did and gets whatever they can financially out of the schools that have homes in the P2 waiting on them (they obviously do or wouldn’t be making such a fuss publicly ) sooner rather than later to at least stay on a similar plane financially as the Big12 in its current state.
 
CoalTrain said:
The media partners do not FORCE conferences to add this or that school, the conferences do that themselves to make their conference more money from the media partners. The media partners then pay more money for a more valuable product. Always remember, it’s the job of the conference leadership to put/keep their conference in the best possible position, not the media partner.



particularly in games vs other big brands vs for instance Georgia vs Vandy? :laugh:

No, only way FSU and Clemson don’t end up in the SEC now is:

1. FOX / BIG want in the southeast bad enough and outbid ESPN/Disney which is entirely possible and btw yes will most definitely hurt the SEC long term so the SEC needs to make an effort to keep them out of their territory, particularly since the BIG/FOX have cornered the LA market.

2. The ACC devises/has a look in in its media deal for an unequal revenue plan that satisfies FSU/Clemson ect. At least for the time being.

JMO, but I think the ACC sees the writing on the wall similar to how the Big12 did and gets whatever they can financially out of the schools that have homes in the P2 waiting on them (they obviously do or wouldn’t be making such a fuss publicly ) sooner rather than later to at least stay on a similar plane financially as the Big12 in its current state.
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The sec is the logical landing spot.
 
CoalTrain said:
JMO, but I think the ACC sees the writing on the wall similar to how the Big12 did and gets whatever they can financially out of the schools that have homes in the P2 waiting on them (they obviously do or wouldn’t be making such a fuss publicly ) sooner rather than later to at least stay on a similar plane financially as the Big12 in its current state
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I may be reading this wrong. If so, my apologies. If the ACC loses FSU/Clem, you don't think they'll be on a similar plane financially as the Big 12?
 
Deep Creek said:
I may be reading this wrong. If so, my apologies. If the ACC loses FSU/Clem, you don't think they'll be on a similar plane financially as the Big 12?
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The North Carolina schools will be key if that happens. If UNC stays, the ACC = B12. If UNC leaves, they won't be.

It will be interesting to see who the ACC tries to fill in the FSU and Clemson slots. If you follow on X, it's mostly USF, Memphis, and/or Tulane. Perhaps ECU.
 
CoalTrain said:
The media partners do not FORCE conferences to add this or that school, the conferences do that themselves to make their conference more money from the media partners. The media partners then pay more money for a more valuable product. Always remember, it’s the job of the conference leadership to put/keep their conference in the best possible position, not the media partner.

No, only way FSU and Clemson don’t end up in the SEC now is:

1. FOX / BIG want in the southeast bad enough and outbid ESPN/Disney which is entirely possible and btw yes will most definitely hurt the SEC long term so the SEC needs to make an effort to keep them out of their territory, particularly since the BIG/FOX have cornered the LA market.

2. The ACC devises/has a look in in its media deal for an unequal revenue plan that satisfies FSU/Clemson ect. At least for the time being.

JMO, but I think the ACC sees the writing on the wall similar to how the Big12 did and gets whatever they can financially out of the schools that have homes in the P2 waiting on them (they obviously do or wouldn’t be making such a fuss publicly ) sooner rather than later to at least stay on a similar plane financially as the Big12 in its current state.
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Your post made it sound to me as if you were saying the media partners do. We agree they don't.

The problem that FSU and Clemson have in the SEC, and where I think your analysis is off, is that adding those two won't make more money for the conference. At least not on a per-team basis, which is what counts. Let's take a look. The

Let's dig into the SEC's contracts with ESPN/ABC/Disney. I've been wanting to do this for my own edification for some time and have some time to burn this afternoon.

- There are two contracts, not one. One replaces the deal that the SEC had with CBS for the 3:30 game, a few other primetime games, a few top basketball games, and the Conf Championship football game. The other covers all the other football games and all other sports, and includes the SECN. They get $300 million per year for 10 years for the Saturday games/CCG. This deal runs from 2023-24 to 2033-34 - 10 years.

- The second contract was the 20 year agreement signed in 2013-2014 that also runs until 2033-2034. That was for $6 billion, or $300 million per year. This info is really hard to come by, but that lines up with distributions. It also went up when OU and TX joined by a pro-rata share.

- Then there is the CFP money will be about $350 million for the SEC.

The reason that I did this is that you said they will add teams that make them more money. No team can make them more money until 2033-2034. When OU and TX were added, the 2013 and 2023 contracts were amended to add pro-rata amounts for the two teams. ESPN was not required to pay more, and they can't renegotiate until 2033-34. So, even assuming that FSU and Clemson could earn a pro-rata share (Washington, Oregon, Rutgers, and Maryland didn't in the B1G; and Cal, Stanford, and SMU didn't in the ACC; USC and UCLA and TX and OU did), that doesn't mean more money ... just the same amount per team for the next ten years. At that point, you might get more, but then again, maybe nobody gets more due the market at that time.

Assuming FSU and Clemson can get out of the GOR, then SEC teams not at the top will take losses for the hope that in 10 years, they will make more money. Just don't see it, especially when we have no idea what the TV market will be like in 10 years.

Long post, but I've really wanted to dig into the SEC contract with ESPN because there is very little info available. Sorry about that.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
The North Carolina schools will be key if that happens. If UNC stays, the ACC = B12. If UNC leaves, they won't be.

It will be interesting to see who the ACC tries to fill in the FSU and Clemson slots. If you follow on X, it's mostly USF, Memphis, and/or Tulane. Perhaps ECU.
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When I look at the list of ACC schools sans FSU/Clem and the list of the Big 12 schools, they look very similar to me in regards to attracting national or "non regional" eyeballs. Neither move the needle much. What am I missing?
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
The North Carolina schools will be key if that happens. If UNC stays, the ACC = B12. If UNC leaves, they won't be.

It will be interesting to see who the ACC tries to fill in the FSU and Clemson slots. If you follow on X, it's mostly USF, Memphis, and/or Tulane. Perhaps ECU.
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I think the most likely short term outcome is FSU and Clemson leaving the ACC to join the Big Ten. I think NC's state politics makes a UNC exit more complicated and there really isn't anyone after that the P2 really want. At that point, the ACC would have 15 members (16 including ND). My guess is they would just add USF to go to a clean 16 and stop.
 
Thiefery said:
not enough to bump up the current payout each school gets.. hell they didn't get that with the additions of udub/Oregon either

The only school remaining that could not only add to the pool but increase each school share is ND
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If that was the case, BIG would have just added Cal, Stanford instead.
Fact is BIG has 4 National TV timeslots to fill every week and need more Tier1 schools to generate 4M views in those slots.
Only Migh & OSU can generate 4M by themselves, leaving 26 National slots to fill.
The rest rely on matchups and there's only so many Neb, Wisc, PSU, USC, Iowa you can combine together to make a potential 4M viewed game.
Between those 5 you can generate 10 matchups but that leaves 16 games left to be filled with Indiana, Ill, Rut, Purdue, etc
 
TaikoTiger said:
If that was the case, BIG would have just added Cal, Stanford instead.
Fact is BIG has 4 National TV timeslots to fill every week and need more Tier1 schools to generate 4M views in those slots.
Only Migh & OSU can generate 4M by themselves, leaving 26 National slots to fill.
The rest rely on matchups and there's only so many Neb, Wisc, PSU, USC, Iowa you can combine together to make a potential 4M viewed game.
Between those 5 you can generate 10 matchups but that leaves 16 games left to be filled with Indiana, Ill, Rut, Purdue, etc
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why would they add Cal and Stanford?.. well I do get Stanford since they are a good athletic program.. but Cal? the school who rather drop sports all together?

grabbing the LA schools got them the huge deal.. so much so, SC and UCLA aren't getting tax'd like the other schools who have joined or will be joining.
 
TaikoTiger said:
If that was the case, BIG would have just added Cal, Stanford instead.
Fact is BIG has 4 National TV timeslots to fill every week and need more Tier1 schools to generate 4M views in those slots.
Only Migh & OSU can generate 4M by themselves, leaving 26 National slots to fill.
The rest rely on matchups and there's only so many Neb, Wisc, PSU, USC, Iowa you can combine together to make a potential 4M viewed game.
Between those 5 you can generate 10 matchups but that leaves 16 games left to be filled with Indiana, Ill, Rut, Purdue, etc
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I hadn't thought about it from a TV time slot perspective, but that makes sense. But doesn't that cut against FSU and Clemson to the SEC. Without going and looking at the prime slots for the SEC - can't they pretty much fill them with UGA, Bama, OU, TX, LSU v. anyone else every week? That gives them as many as 5 potential time slots that would be considered prime and would generate 3+ million viewers. Match those teams up against Auburn, ATM, Ole Miss, UTjr, and UF, and you would easily fill the top 3 slots. Just spitballing.

Have to think through that a little more.
 
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