Ballot for HOF 2022

Ortiz was incredibly average for the Twins, gets to Boston around Manny and starts bombing 30,40,50 HRs a year……nothing suspicious about that
 
Mistaken4193 said:
Bonds was already a HOF lock before he took Steroids. Guarantee if he never touches steroids he still ends up with at least 600 HRs
Click to expand...
Bonds was a HOFer in 1998. He's the only guy in baseball history with 500+ homers and 500+ steals. Nobody else is even 400/400.

Clemens is where the line gets blurred, IMO. He saw some pretty remarkable reversals after leaving Boston, and went from a Doc Gooden-esque career path to the Hall. But, again, there's plenty of guys who cheated other ways that are already in.
 
Rex Racer said:
Willie Mays was better defensively (12 GG to 10) and he didn't hit like a girl like little Andy. Let's face it, you're a sad homer that knows next to to nothing about the game beyond the stat sheet and pretending that some chubby, minor league schmuck that spent his career chasing pop ups and weak ass fly balls from the bottom 3rd of NL (minor league) line ups is laughable.

Ken Griffey Jr laughs at you.
Click to expand...
LOL @ Gold Gloves.

Every defensive metric heavily favors Andruw.

You brought up offense for some reason.

You suck at this. You can’t back up your stance, and you try to mask your lack of a grasp of the subject matter with insults, and that is just hilarious.

Come back with something other than an award that Rafael Palmeiro won as a DH
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
LOL @ Gold Gloves.

Every defensive metric heavily favors Andruw.

You brought up offense for some reason.

You suck at this. You can’t back up your stance, and you try to mask your lack of a grasp of the subject matter with insults, and that is just hilarious.

Come back with something other than an award that Rafael Palmeiro won as a DH
Click to expand...
Let's use the WAR stat .... It is a stat of worth. Andruw Jones WAR - 62.7; David Ortiz WAR - 55.3.

How many Steroid Offenses did Jones have that kept him out of the Hall of Fame while an inferior player like Ortiz gets in.
 
Voltaire said:
Let's use the WAR stat .... It is a stat of worth. Andruw Jones WAR - 62.7; David Ortiz WAR - 55.3.

How many Steroid Offenses did Jones have that kept him out of the Hall of Fame while an inferior player like Ortiz gets in.
Click to expand...
Andruw’s case is tied entirely to his defense and home runs. He wasn’t an exceptional hitter, and really he’s probably already in if he retired after he left the Braves. He got out of shape and really hurt his resume those last 5 or so years of his career with the Dodgers, Yankees and White Sox
 
Reckon what the case against Scott Rolen and his 70 WAR was?
 
Mistaken4193 said:
Last time I checked Roids don’t stand in the box for you and help you mentally recognize the pitch being thrown. Roids doesn’t make solid contact for you.
Click to expand...
It can help you increase your bat speed enough to turn fence power into HR power and make that slightly mishit fly ball go further etc.

That being said, I don't think that players "suspected" of steroid use should be barred from the Hall. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in that era (or today) that isn't taking advantage of anything modern science can cook up to assist in strength training and healing.
 
Mofo said:
Separated / divorced / disgraced is not married, Rex. For example, I share a bed with my wife and it’s not imaginary or a birdhouse.
Click to expand...
I bet you don't make your wife support you either.
 
I talked to Ortiz and his wife a few years ago at a Packers game at Lambeau Field. He and his wife Tiffany were sitting next to us and you couldn't find a nicer guy. His wife was born and raised in Kaukauna Wisconsin and was always an avid Packers fan.
 
steelerssb said:
Should say suspected. Cobb, Speaker, Anson, probably others.

Still don't think that should keep them out, either.
Click to expand...
Cobb’s dad was a known advocate for black rights, and Cobb was on record numerous times supporting black players being allowed in the majors.

Black newspapers even praised him after his death for his advocacy of black players.

I highly doubt Cobb was in the klan. He was probably less racist than the average white man of his time.

Pretty well all the infamous stories about Cobb either didn’t happen or were highly sensationalized by Al Stump.
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
Reckon what the case against Scott Rolen and his 70 WAR was?
Click to expand...

I think the biggest knock on Rolen for those voters is durability and his counting stats don't pop out. Even so, he was one of the best defensive players of this generation whether you go by Gold Gloves or defensive metrics (UZR, DRS) and he was still a very good hitting 3B. I think he should be in.

Him finishing at 63.2% is a little disappointing, I thought it would be closer to 70%. He's still in a good position to get in in the next year or two IMO. To go from 10.2% on his first try to over 60% four ballots later is impressive and it's not like next year's ballot will have a group of impressive first timers (outside of Beltran and maybe K-Rod, I can't see anyone else getting any real momentum), so I think he'll stand out.
 
Last edited:
Mistaken4193 said:
Ortiz was incredibly average for the Twins, gets to Boston around Manny and starts bombing 30,40,50 HRs a year……nothing suspicious about that
Click to expand...

He showed plenty of power in Minnesota (18 home runs in just 89 games in 2001, slugged .500 and hit 20 home runs in 128 games in 2002). Ortiz was also a top 100 prospect entering his first full MLB season and crushed minor league pitching (.309/.381/.532, not to mention he hit .317/.372/.568 with 38 doubles and 31 home runs across A+/AA/AAA before getting promoted). He also battled various injuries as a Twin (torn ACL in 1999, wrist fracture in 2001, missed a month to remove bone chips in his knee in 2002). Moving from the Metrodome to Fenway also probably didn't hurt.

Not saying he didn't use PEDs, but I think there's a lot more to explain than "DURR HURR STEROIDS"
 
Illustrious Potentate said:
Cobb’s dad was a known advocate for black rights, and Cobb was on record numerous times supporting black players being allowed in the majors.

Black newspapers even praised him after his death for his advocacy of black players.

I highly doubt Cobb was in the klan. He was probably less racist than the average white man of his time.

Pretty well all the infamous stories about Cobb either didn’t happen or were highly sensationalized by Al Stump.
Click to expand...

I think it's wild that the moment where the public knew/recalled this seemed to pass so quickly. It's a difficult job once a man's name has been destroyed.
 
DragonFromTo said:
I think it's wild that the moment where the public knew/recalled this seemed to pass so quickly. It's a difficult job once a man's name has been destroyed.
Click to expand...
They even made a shitty box office flop of a movie about Stump’s version of Cobb. Kind of a shame really.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top