Big 12 thread

[Volbound1700]

I mean, does anyone honestly think that the new additions OR the remaining teams would run the table in the Big12 on a regular basis? Cause... I know I don't. And that's not even taking OOC games into account.

Be a fun/competitive conference to keep up with and watch certain games ect for sure , I'd be a fan but their champion is going to have to either run the table or finish with 1 loss overall to even be in the conversation for a playoff spot even if they expand. Throw in the best players getting paid more to go to the other conferences... Gonna be very very tough if not impossible imo.

2018 UCF could run the gauntlet but yeah no one would. IMO, the best two programs in the NEW Big12 are still probably Oklahoma State and West Virginia. BYU and UCF could arguably be #3 and #4 though (depends on if Iowa State can maintain and whether Kansas State and TCU fall in as both have argument for #3 and #4 as well).

 

[Red_Alert]

Big 12 Standings Texas

2020: 4th
2019: 3rd
2018: 2nd
2017: 4th
2016: 6th
2015: 7th
2014: 5th
2013: 4th
2012: 3rd
2011: 6th

Their highest finish (2nd) was the 2018 season where they finished (10-4)(7-2).
Lost to Maryland (5-7) in Austin
Beat Oklahoma in the regular season
Lost to Okie Jr
Lost to WVU

But when Texas leaves they're no longer a 'Power' conference? They're suddenly a 'G5' conference. LOL

OK fine, but let's cut the crap about this P5 "grind".

 

[CoalTrain]

2018 UCF could run the gauntlet but yeah no one would. IMO, the best two programs in the NEW Big12 are still probably Oklahoma State and West Virginia. BYU and UCF could arguably be #3 and #4 though (depends on if Iowa State can maintain and whether Kansas State and TCU fall in as both have argument for #3 and #4 as well).

Cant argue that, now match up the top of that conference with the other P5's. MOST of the time... they are OUT of any playoff conversation. BYU's OOC big game would in a perfect world be Utah every year, WVU's would be Pitt, OSU's would be OU but.. I'll be shocked if they ever play that game regularly again so.. where is the signature win to impress the committee?

 

[Volbound1700]

By that criteria the PAC and ACC minus Clemson aren't power conferences

Florida State is a National Title Contender once they get their act together. You can probably say the same for Miami.

In the Pac12, you got Oregon, USC, and Washington. UCLA hasn't done crap in two decades but they have a history of competing at high level.

I planned on making a very long post about it. You can kind of put CFB into multiple categories:

Current National Title Powers (Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, LSU, Oklahoma, and Ohio State are really only programs that fit this bill).

Blue Bloods\Historical Powers that are down: Florida State, Michigan, Miami, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Penn State, Tennessee, Texas, USC

Up and coming programs (Not traditional powers but have been competing at higher level lately): Oregon, Utah, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wisconsin

Mid-tier programs (they can compete for titles but won't do it consistently and generally are mid to low tier. All have the potential): Auburn (I can see argument to put them in Blue Bloods/Historical Powers that are down category), Arkansas, Arizona State, BYU, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Iowa, North Carolina, Ole Miss, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Texas A&M, TCU, UCLA, Washington

Once you get outside of these categories, it is hard to make the case for anyone being in the mix of winning a title. I know some of the teams listed haven't competing in over 25 years but there is some history in their program of competing at a high level. There is another category of note:

Once great Blue Blood programs that would no longer be considered elite by anyone: Ivy League (historical best league when you count all-time titles), Minnesota, Army, Illinois, Vanderbilt, Sewanee. This is a list of teams that won National Titles or competing at a high level in the past but have NO hope of doing it today. For example, Vanderbilt was a dominate program in 1900, 1910s, etc. but is clearly a bottom feeder today. Army has two national titles and three Heisman winners. The Ivy League squads (like Yale) have more National Titles than any of the blue bloods but could not compete in modern CFB. Minnesota and Illinois both have 5 national titles each but this was before 1940. The chances of them make a playoff is very low.

 

[Wild Turkey]

I don't think we're talking about the same things.

I'm referring to media rights revenue, you're referring to overall revenue.

We are really talking about ratings and there isn’t much difference.

 

[Red_Alert]

We are really talking about ratings and there isn’t much difference.

No we're not.
You're using 'total revenue' to imply the 'majority' of SEC games are being watched outside of SEC territory.
Total revenue is more than the media rights payouts per team. It's made up of apparel sales and stuff like that. How many people in Ohio are buying Tennessee, LSU, Georgia, Auburn apparel?

Do you have a breakdown of SEC media rights revenue like we did the Big 12 with TX/OU comprising 50%? I'm fairly confident that 4 teams (at best) make up near 50% of that total media rights revenue.
You can be sure I'm not watching Louisiana Monroe/Kentucky right now. Neither is anyone else outside of SEC country. No more than they'd be watching SCAR/Kentucky right now if they were playing.

 

[Wild Turkey]

No we're not.
You're using 'total revenue' to imply the 'majority' of SEC games are being watched outside of SEC territory.
Total revenue is more than the media rights payouts per team. It's made up of apparel sales and stuff like that. How many people in Ohio are buying Tennessee, LSU, Georgia, Auburn apparel?

Do you have a breakdown of SEC media rights revenue like we did the Big 12? I'm fairly confident that 4 teams (at best) make up near 50% of that total media rights revenue.
You can be sure I'm not watching Louisiana Monroe/Kentucky right now. Neither is anyone else outside of SEC country. No more than they'd be watching SCAR/Kentucky right now if they were playing.

Why would I care about the criteria you’ve outlined above? You went from media rights revenue to apparel sales to who give a fuck.

I showed you that 9 SEC teams are in the top 20 of total revenue and ratings. That is more than substantial evidence that 3 or 4 teams aren‘t the only ones driving revenue in the SEC.

If you don’t want to accept that but be my guest but the two biggest revenue drivers in the B12 are joining the SEC and do they revenue and ratings are just going to keep growing.

For the record no one is watching La Monroe vs KY but no one is watching Fordham vs Nebraska either. Before you get on your high horse no is going to watch Akron vs Auburn.

You’re so insecure that you argue complete BS attempting to be right and ignore relevant factors to the point of ridiculousness.

 

[Red_Alert]

Why would I care about the criteria you’ve outlined above? You went from media rights revenue to apparel sales to who give a fuck.

I showed you that 9 SEC teams are in the top 20 of total revenue and ratings. That is more than substantial evidence that 3 or 4 teams aren‘t the only ones driving revenue in the SEC.

If you don’t want to accept that but be my guest but the two biggest revenue drivers in the B12 are joining the SEC and do they revenue and ratings are just going to keep growing.

For the record no one is watching La Monroe vs KY but no one is watching Fordham vs Nebraska either. Before you get on your high horse no is going to watch Akron vs Auburn.

You’re so insecure that you argue complete BS attempting to be right and ignore relevant factors to the point of ridiculousness.

"Total Revenue" and "Media Rights Revenue" are apples and oranges.

For you to imply those "Total Revenue" numbers means people outside of SEC country are flocking to tune into SEC games on Saturdays is a laugher.

 

[Wild Turkey]

"Total Revenue" and "Media Rights Revenue" are apples and oranges.

For you to imply those "Total Revenue" numbers means people outside of SEC country are flocking to tune into SEC games on Saturdays is a laugher.

And if you think it’s any different in any other conference footprint or that is going to slow revenue growth in the SEC then you are delusional.

People flock to see the best games against the highest ranked teams. For example Ga vs Clemson should have the highest ratings this week.

Week in and week out the majority of those type games will be in the SEC. They will include teams like Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Auburn and Texas A&M. When those teams match up people who care about college football will be watching.

 

[Red_Alert]

And if you think it’s any different in any other conference footprint or that is going to slow revenue growth in the SEC then you are delusional.

People flock to see the best games against the highest ranked teams. For example Ga vs Clemson should have the highest ratings this week.

Week in and week out the majority of those type games will be in the SEC. They will include teams like Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Auburn and Texas A&M. When those teams match up people who care about college football will be watching.

What makes you think that I think that?

It should be obvious to a 10 year old that PAC 12 region are going to watch majority PAC 12 games.
Same goes for Big 12, Big 10 and ACC regions.

Total revenue has nothing to do with the media rights other than it's equal slice of pie each team gets from their conference.

BTW.... The link you posted is from 2016 at the soonest. Do you know how I know that?

"Texas is by far the most profitable football program despite only winning five games last season."

You'd have to go back to 2016 for Texas to have been (5-7).

That "total revenue after expenses" list has changed greatly since the Big 10's media rights went through the roof.

 

[Red_Alert]

"Oh look at all the SEC teams in the "Total revenue after expenses" top 20. Errbody in Washington watching nothin' but SEC games. Slobber, Slobber, Gobble, Gobble"

Derp

 

[Deep Creek]

Cant argue that, now match up the top of that conference with the other P5's. MOST of the time... they are OUT of any playoff conversation. BYU's OOC big game would in a perfect world be Utah every year, WVU's would be Pitt, OSU's would be OU but.. I'll be shocked if they ever play that game regularly again so.. where is the signature win to impress the committee?

 

[Deep Creek]

I showed you that 9 SEC teams are in the top 20 of total revenue and ratings. That is more than substantial evidence that 3 or 4 teams aren‘t the only ones driving revenue in the SEC.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, we remove those four top brand name teams from the SEC and the media would still be willing to pay 72% or more for what they are paying now? You've got to have been drinking too much Wild Turkey.

 

[Volbound1700]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, we remove those four top brand name teams from the SEC and the media would still be willing to pay 72% or more for what they are paying now? You've got to have been drinking too much Wild Turkey.

I think his point is the SEC would still be a Power 5 league without its top 4 teams. You cannot say that about any of the other Power 5 leagues.

He is correct. If you take Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and LSU let's say, you would still have Auburn, Texas A&M, Tennessee, Arkansas, Ole Miss, etc. It would be a weak Power 5 league but it would still survive.

 

[Deep Creek]

I think his point is the SEC would still be a Power 5 league without its top 4 teams. You cannot say that about any of the other Power 5 leagues.

He is correct. If you take Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and LSU let's say, you would still have Auburn, Texas A&M, Tennessee, Arkansas, Ole Miss, etc. It would be a weak Power 5 league but it would still survive.

I ain't arguing that. I'm saying what the networks would be offering for the SEC without Bama, Florida, Georgia and LSU would be SIGNIFICANTLY less that what they would be willing to pay WITH them. Anybody that thinks it wouldn't be much different has lost their fucking mind.

 

[Red_Alert]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, we remove those four top brand name teams from the SEC and the media would still be willing to pay 72% or more for what they are paying now? You've got to have been drinking too much Wild Turkey.

How dare you not tow the SEC mantra?

You obviously don't read magazines or watch the SEC Network 24/7.

 

[Volbound1700]

I ain't arguing that. I'm saying what the networks would be offering for the SEC without Bama, Florida, Georgia and LSU would be SIGNIFICANTLY less that what they would be willing to pay WITH them. Anybody that thinks it wouldn't be much different has lost their fucking mind.

I agree with you there. That would be a MAJOR hit to the SEC. However, it would not be 100% fatal like it would be for most of the rest of the Power 5. The only other Power 5 league that might could lose its top 4 and survive is the B1G and even that one is questionable.

 

[Deep Creek]

How dare you not tow the SEC mantra?

You obviously don't read magazines or watch the SEC Network 24/7.

I know. I've questioned the authority of the almighty gawd that is the S-E-C.

Here's another news flash. I ain't going to watch it the SEC network when OU and Texas join either. Just like I don't watch the LHN, B1G, Pac 12 networks either.

 

[Deep Creek]

I agree with you there. That would be a MAJOR hit to the SEC. However, it would not be 100% fatal like it would be for most of the rest of the Power 5. The only other Power 5 league that might could lose its top 4 and survive is the B1G and even that one is questionable.

No doubt it wouldn't be "as fatal" as it would for others.

But if it had gone the other direction, i.e. Bama, Florida, Georgia and LSU going to the Big 12, you can be assured the media money would have gone with them. Just like the OU/Texas media money is heading for the SEC.

Hell, the B1G might could lose every member and not only survive, but thrive, soley off research money!

 

[Volbound1700]

No doubt it wouldn't be "as fatal" as it would for others.

But if it had gone the other direction, i.e. Bama, Florida, Georgia and LSU going to the Big 12, you can be assured the media money would have gone with them. Just like the OU/Texas media money is heading for the SEC.

Hell, the B1G might could lose every member and not only survive, but thrive, soley off research money!

B1G would be dead as a major football conference if they lost Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Nebraska.