Chauncey Billups: Why is Allen Iverson in the HoF and I'm not?

citysushi said:
LMAO, did you just drop Matt Geiger and reference in his prime?

Dikembe played with Iverson for 1.5 years.
Coleman left right after Iverson was drafted and returned to play on the downswing of his career.
Toni Kukoc played for Philly for half of two seasons.

If you're actually going to go off who Iversons best teammates were peak in Philly they would be
Aaron McKie
Eric Snow
Theo Ratliff

Chaunceys were:
Rip Hamilton
Rasheed Wallace
Tayshaun Prince
Ben Wallace

for multiple years.....
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Why no mention of Darko Milicic? Oh yeah, I know why. Never mind.
 
citysushi said:
LMAO, did you just drop Matt Geiger and reference in his prime?

Dikembe played with Iverson for 1.5 years.
Coleman left right after Iverson was drafted and returned to play on the downswing of his career.
Toni Kukoc played for Philly for half of two seasons.

If you're actually going to go off who Iversons best teammates were peak in Philly they would be
Aaron McKie
Eric Snow
Theo Ratliff

Chaunceys were:
Rip Hamilton
Rasheed Wallace
Tayshaun Prince
Ben Wallace

for multiple years.....
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thats a wash IMO

i can find more to satisfy you, but im right. iverson wasnt lebron on cleveland. iverson was a volume shooter who didnt play defense, on some pretty decently talented teams. billups was a lock down defender who could put in 30 pts and dish dimes.

dikembe averaged 10/13 for philly, still in his prime years.
mckie gave them 12/4 for 2 years
snow? 12/7/4ish - coveted by many teams
and yes, geiger. NBA fans know what he was, and in his limited prime? a 7 footer 12/7 at center.
ratliff? 11/8 and 3 blocks a game
shit, matt harpring was even 11/7 for a year.
lets throw keith van horn in there (a favorite of mine, i worse my socks like he did). 16/7
tyrone "my man" hill could ball too: 11/9 or so for philly
i will say derrick coleman again, arguably one of the biggest "didnt meet his potential" guys of all time, but still the sixers had him twice with AI.

17/10/3 in his first run
a respectable 9/6 and a block a game in his latter years
 
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Rock Strongo said:
thats a wash IMO

i can find more to satisfy you, but im right. iverson wasnt lebron on cleveland. iverson was a volume shooter who didnt play defense, on some pretty decently talented teams. billups was a lock down defender who could put in 30 pts and dish dimes.

dikembe averaged 10/13 for philly, still in his prime years.
mckie gave them 12/4 for 2 years
snow? 12/7/4ish - coveted by many teams
and yes, geiger. NBA fans know what he was, and in his limited prime? a 7 footer 12/7 at center.
ratliff? 11/8 and 3 blocks a game
shit, matt harpring was even 11/7 for a year.
lets throw keith van horn in there (a favorite of mine, i worse my socks like he did). 16/7
tyrone "my man" hill could ball too: 11/9 or so for philly
i will say derrick coleman again, arguably one of the biggest "didnt meet his potential" guys of all time, but still the sixers had him twice with AI.

17/10/3 in his first run
a respectable 9/6 and a block a game in his latter years
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I don't think I've ever heard of anyone reference Iverson's teams as "talented". We can discuss role players all you want, but in this league talent is always determined from the top down. Let's play a game.

How many of Iverson's teammates made an allstar game, while playing along side him? And how many allstar appearances?

How many of Billup's teammates made allstar games, while playing along side him? And how many allstar appearances?
 
citysushi said:
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone reference Iverson's teams as "talented". We can discuss role players all you want, but in this league talent is always determined from the top down. Let's play a game.

How many of Iverson's teammates made an allstar game, while playing along side him? And how many allstar appearances?

How many of Billup's teammates made allstar games, while playing along side him? And how many allstar appearances?
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AS selections are meaningless, in any sport.

again this isnt lebron dragging a D league team to the finals. those sixers teams were decently talented (i know, i saw them a lot).
 
Rock Strongo said:
AS selections are meaningless, in any sport.

again this isnt lebron dragging a D league team to the finals. those sixers teams were decently talented (i know, i saw them a lot).
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Well at the very minimum in context of this discussion, the AS appearances are very valid as they indicate value across the league. We're not comparing two good players who one may or might not have more Allstars. There's a legitimate wide gap between the players we're referencing here.

Iverson had McKie
Chauncey had Rip Hamilton

Iverson had Eric Snow
Chauncey had Tayshaun Prince

Iverson had Dikembe/Theo Ratliff
Chauncey had Ben Wallace

Iverson had _____
Chauncey had Rasheed Wallace


I mean if that's not a huge gap in talent, I don't know what is.
 
citysushi said:
Well at the very minimum in context of this discussion, the AS appearances are very valid as they indicate value across the league. We're not comparing two good players who one may or might not have more Allstars. There's a legitimate wide gap between the players we're referencing here.

Iverson had McKie
Chauncey had Rip Hamilton

Iverson had Eric Snow
Chauncey had Tayshaun Prince

Iverson had Dikembe/Theo Ratliff
Chauncey had Ben Wallace

Iverson had _____
Chauncey had Rasheed Wallace


I mean if that's not a huge gap in talent, I don't know what is.
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Iverson had McKie - 10/4/4 in philly
Chauncey had Rip Hamilton 18/4/4 in detroit

advantage detroit rip +8 PPG

Iverson had Eric Snow - 10/4/7 (saw him a lot, great PG)
Chauncey had Tayshaun Prince - 12/5/3 in detroit

snow was the better creator, advantage snow

Iverson had Dikembe/Theo Ratliff - one HOFer, the 2 combined for 22/20/2 as a combo (you listed 2, not me)
Chauncey had Ben Wallace - 8/13/2

advantage, philly


Iverson had _____ you listed theo - 11/8/1 in phily
Chauncey had Rasheed Wallace - tail end of his career, shell of himself. in fact, his corpse came here after detroit. 13/7/2

advantage - push IMO

the gap isnt as big as you think.
 
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Rock Strongo said:
Iverson had McKie - 10/4/4 in philly
Chauncey had Rip Hamilton 18/4/4 in detroit

advantage detroit rip +8 PPG

Iverson had Eric Snow - 10/4/7 (saw him a lot, great PG)
Chauncey had Tayshaun Prince - 12/5/3 in detroit

snow was the better creator, advantage snow

Iverson had Dikembe/Theo Ratliff - one HOFer, the 2 combined for 22/20/2 as a combo (you listed 2, not me)
Chauncey had Ben Wallace - 8/13/2

advantage, philly


Iverson had _____ you listed theo - 11/8/1 in phily
Chauncey had Rasheed Wallace - tail end of his career, shell of himself. in fact, his corpse came here after detroit. 13/7/2

advantage - push IMO

the gap isnt as big as you think.
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Snow over Tayshaun Prince? Prince was a small forward but you're using creator as an advantage even though Chauncey is the primary creator? Additionally Prince was a 4x all NBA defender?

Then you're combining two players (I was indicating one or the other), to compare to Ben Wallace, who in his own right was 4x DPOY. Dikembe was past prime, lol. But advantage Philly?

Theo as a push with Rasheed Wallace? Rasheed Wallace. 4x All star Rasheed Wallace? With two different teams?

I can't honestly believe you're serious. It's clear we're not going to agree on value because there is an INCREDIBLY wide gap in both talent and production between those players.
 
citysushi said:
Snow over Tayshaun Prince? Prince was a small forward but you're using creator as an advantage even though Chauncey is the primary creator? Additionally Prince was a 4x all NBA defender?

Then you're combining two players (I was indicating one or the other), to compare to Ben Wallace, who in his own right was 4x DPOY. Dikembe was past prime, lol. But advantage Philly?

Theo as a push with Rasheed Wallace? Rasheed Wallace. 4x All star Rasheed Wallace? With two different teams?

I can't honestly believe you're serious. It's clear we're not going to agree on value because there is an INCREDIBLY wide gap in both talent and production between those players.
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you put him there compared to a PG, not me.

you combined players, not me. its there for your review.

yes, theo was a push with wallace. i posted the indisputable metrics of their contributions in their time in philly and detroit, side by side.

one more time:

Iverson had _____ you listed theo - 11/8/1 in phily
Chauncey had Rasheed Wallace - tail end of his career, shell of himself. in fact, his corpse came here after detroit. 13/7/2
 
im a stats guy. i work in metrics. AS games are not a contribution metric.
 
Rock Strongo said:
billups was a top 5 PG in his time.


shit, from 2005-2010?

AS every year, 18/7/3

thats good
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It's not called the Hall of Good or even Hall of Very Good. It's called the Hall of Fame. Chauncey was very good. AI was an all time great.
 
trojanfan12 said:
It's not called the Hall of Good or even Hall of Very Good. It's called the Hall of Fame. Chauncey was very good. AI was an all time great.
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AI what's a terrific volume shooter with one of the game's greatest crossovers. He had a lot of steals but was an ok defender due to his size.

And he was toast by his early 30s. Billups was very useful til almost 40.

He has a finals mvp. Only a couple of those guys arent in.

AI was a generational scorer. Billups was overshadowed as a true PG. He was the better floor General in my opinion.
 
Even though the trade for AI sucked for Detroit he was ultimately a better player. Chauncey was a better fit for Detroit. And yes he had a much better supporting cast than AI ever did.
 
Rock Strongo said:
AI what's a terrific volume shooter with one of the game's greatest crossovers. He had a lot of steals but was an ok defender due to his size.

And he was toast by his early 30s. Billups was very useful til almost 40.

He has a finals mvp. Only a couple of those guys arent in.

AI was a generational scorer. Billups was overshadowed as a true PG. He was the better floor General in my opinion.
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And still not a Hall of Famer. You said it yourself in your last sentence.

"AI was a "generational scorer".

Billups was a very good player with a career to be proud of. But he wasn't a generational anything.
 
trojanfan12 said:
And still not a Hall of Famer. You said it yourself in your last sentence.

"AI was a "generational scorer".

Billups was a very good player with a career to be proud of. But he wasn't a generational anything.
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I didn't "say it myself". I said he was a generational scorer.
I then also said that Billups was the better floor General in my opinion.
Nothing bothers me more than when somebody claims I agree with their narrative when I clearly didn't.
 
Rock Strongo said:
Iverson had McKie - 10/4/4 in philly
Chauncey had Rip Hamilton 18/4/4 in detroit

advantage detroit rip +8 PPG

Iverson had Eric Snow - 10/4/7 (saw him a lot, great PG)
Chauncey had Tayshaun Prince - 12/5/3 in detroit

snow was the better creator, advantage snow

Iverson had Dikembe/Theo Ratliff - one HOFer, the 2 combined for 22/20/2 as a combo (you listed 2, not me)
Chauncey had Ben Wallace - 8/13/2

advantage, philly


Iverson had _____ you listed theo - 11/8/1 in phily
Chauncey had Rasheed Wallace - tail end of his career, shell of himself. in fact, his corpse came here after detroit. 13/7/2

advantage - push IMO

the gap isnt as big as you think.
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The Sixers traded Ratliff to get Mutombo. You can't add their stats together and call them a combo, Rock.
 
Guy Incognito said:
The Sixers traded Ratliff to get Mutombo. You can't add their stats together and call them a combo, Rock.
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3rd time
While true
I only added their stats together because of the way the argument was presented by the aforementioned poster.
He listed them both as simultaneous players.
He also compared Tayshaun Prince to a point guard which befuddles me even further.
 
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