Deshaun Watson

[Shanemansj13]

they pay the bills.
If they told him one thing & then changed their minds. That is their right.

Ohh yeah of course it is their right but you have to pay for the consequences of your actions. Plain and simple. Dysfunctional franchise and they will never win.

You aren't making much sense with this defense of this shit franchise...you are actually making more of a claim for Watson wanting out LOL.

 

[Shanemansj13]

but it is not a marriage. he is employed to do a job.
That job is to play football not be in the front office.
Now if they put that in his contract he would have a leg to stand on.
I look at him being a whiny bitch.
So lets say he goes to a new team & gets his feelings hurt there after signing a new deal.
Does he demand to be traded again?
What makes him qualified to pick a GM in the 1st place. This is some silly shit to me.
He is paid to do a job. Picking a GM isnt one of them.
He has no problem taking the texans money, but doesnt want to honor his contract that pays him.
He wants to "ask" for a trade. Thats fine, but no reason for the Texans to trade him.

That's where you're wrong. I don't disagree he is an employee but it is just common sense to consult with your most prized employee or the one that will take you to the promised land if you ever get there. This isn't an 8-5 job, this is a guy that is making you billions, he is putting fans in the seats, he is your franchise-aka franchise guy. There is a reason why franchise players stay with a franchise for their entire career or most of their career...bc their opinion is valued and they consult with this player 24/7.
This is why this franchise is dysfunctional. For example, you think Lebron James or Tom Brady don't have any involvement in the FO as far as coaching hires, etc. Their input is key. You either have no idea how sports works behind the scenes or you are just plain dumb.

 

[RubinRock]

I always love watching people try to equate a starting quarterbacks job to their 9-5, as if there are any similarities at all.

 

[wazzu31]

That's where you're wrong. I don't disagree he is an employee but it is just common sense to consult with your most prized employee or the one that will take you to the promised land if you ever get there. This isn't an 8-5 job, this is a guy that is making you billions, he is putting fans in the seats, he is your franchise-aka franchise guy. There is a reason why franchise players stay with a franchise for their entire career or most of their career...bc their opinion is valued and they consult with this player 24/7.
This is why this franchise is dysfunctional. For example, you think Lebron James or Tom Brady don't have any involvement in the FO as far as coaching hires, etc. Their input is key. You either have no idea how sports works behind the scenes or you are just plain dumb.

But why? This isn’t basketball where one player matters. The Texans may be a crap organization but don’t pretend Watson is a Tom Brady type. He has had weapons in his career and has been a slightly more successful Matt Stafford. I won’t pretend to know if Brady had any input but IIRC nearly every offseason it was, are Bill and Brady headed for a breakup because they got rid off one of “his” guys.

But since it is the Texans, I hope they do all other franchises a service, restore balance and tell Watson to pound sand.

 

[RubinRock]

But why? This isn’t basketball where one player matters. The Texans may be a crap organization but don’t pretend Watson is a Tom Brady type. He has had weapons in his career and has been a slightly more successful Matt Stafford. I won’t pretend to know if Brady had any input but IIRC nearly every offseason it was, are Bill and Brady headed for a breakup because they got rid off one of “his” guys.

But since it is the Texans, I hope they do all other franchises a service, restore balance and tell Watson to pound sand.

One player may not have the impact that a basketball player does, but you're delusional if you don't think they don't matter significantly more than any other player on the team. Just look at the final four teams this season. Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, and Allen. You absolutely have to have a star or someone playing up to a near mvp level season. So yeah, whether you like it or not, qbs hold more power and will have more and more say in these kinda matters in the future.

As far as the "He has had weapons in his career" statement...lol. He had Hopkins and they lit it up together. Hell he outperformed Mahomes for 6 of 8 quarters in their head to heads last season, and would have swept them that season if O'Brien hadn't completely fucked things up in the second half of the playoff game. They got rid of Hopkins for nothing. What else has he had as far as weapons?

Fuller? Lol. A one trick pony. Doesn't know anything outside of a vert route. Slightly above average at best.
Cooks? He's not what he once was with NO. But was able to get 1100 yds this year.
Kenny Stills? Average at best
David Johnson? Nowhere near where he was with Arizona.
Duke Johnson? Average at best.
Atkins/Fells? Average TEs.
And lets not even get into how terrible of an oline hes had his whole career.

So where are all these weapons? No he's not Tom Brady, but he's still one of the top qbs in the game.

 

[Shanemansj13]

But why? This isn’t basketball where one player matters. The Texans may be a crap organization but don’t pretend Watson is a Tom Brady type. He has had weapons in his career and has been a slightly more successful Matt Stafford. I won’t pretend to know if Brady had any input but IIRC nearly every offseason it was, are Bill and Brady headed for a breakup because they got rid off one of “his” guys.

But since it is the Texans, I hope they do all other franchises a service, restore balance and tell Watson to pound sand.

It's hard to evaluate a QB with a shitty management and having a bad OL pretty much his entire career...all that being said, I'm not saying he is Tom Brady but that still doesn't mean he isn't a franchise QB AND most importantly he is the most valuable player on the Texans. You consult with your best player, plain and simple, and that doesn't mean you need to consult with him about everything but a HC or OC is a pretty big deal when you are talking about our QB, let alone your franchise QB. I don't care what sport we are talking about. Baseball might be an exception but NBA and NFL are totally different in my eyes especially nowadays.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Do you really believe this, especially in this day and age? Yes, there is all the incentive in the world to trade him right now.
Why do you want to continue with this player when he continually says he wants out? There is no reason. I would put $100K if there was a bet on if he stays with Houston or gets traded...bc he WILL get traded this offseason and Houston will get a ton of assets for him. And you are acting like this is Watson's fault...just look at the history of this franchise since Watson has been QB. This is a dysfunctional franchise that only needs to blame itself for Watson wanting out. Even though I am usually against this, I don't blame Watson one bit for wanting out with this shitshow in Houston.

When do you make that stop?
This QB leaves then the next one takes you for your money & demands a trade. Why not? it worked for the last guy.
I might have a different point of view if the player was near the end of his contract. maybe. But he literally just signed his new deal months ago. Why did he do this? he wanted his money now. Well there are consequences to that as well. Somehow he is being made out to being the victim. Taking a players opinion is fine on a subject. Letting him make decisions is when your organization would be a shit show. he should be happy that whoever their GM is. It is an improvement to what they had. Realistically I dont think he is as mad as he claims about not picking the GM. Think it is just his excuse to try to get out from playing in houston. If Houston allows that right after signing a deal. All star players will attempt this with them. Then they will definitely stay a failed organization. Again the only way they should trade him. If the trade is in their advantage.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

That's where you're wrong. I don't disagree he is an employee but it is just common sense to consult with your most prized employee or the one that will take you to the promised land if you ever get there. This isn't an 8-5 job, this is a guy that is making you billions, he is putting fans in the seats, he is your franchise-aka franchise guy. There is a reason why franchise players stay with a franchise for their entire career or most of their career...bc their opinion is valued and they consult with this player 24/7.
This is why this franchise is dysfunctional. For example, you think Lebron James or Tom Brady don't have any involvement in the FO as far as coaching hires, etc. Their input is key. You either have no idea how sports works behind the scenes or you are just plain dumb.

Tom Brady got told "too bad" a lot.
Also seems the Packers are doing okay, despite what Aaron Rodgers has wanted.
he didnt want LaFleur as a head coach originally. but he is a grown ass man & did his job anyways. he wanted them to draft a player to help him on offense. The packers said nah! But he went out & did his job anyways. They were only the #1 seed this year.
Allowing QBs to make Front office decisions is how you become a shitty organization.
Patriots & Packers are living proof it is better to tell your star Qb to stay in their lane!

 

[wazzu31]

One player may not have the impact that a basketball player does, but you're delusional if you don't think they don't matter significantly more than any other player on the team. Just look at the final four teams this season. Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, and Allen. You absolutely have to have a star or someone playing up to a near mvp level season. So yeah, whether you like it or not, qbs hold more power and will have more and more say in these kinda matters in the future.

As far as the "He has had weapons in his career" statement...lol. He had Hopkins and they lit it up together. Hell he outperformed Mahomes for 6 of 8 quarters in their head to heads last season, and would have swept them that season if O'Brien hadn't completely fucked things up in the second half of the playoff game. They got rid of Hopkins for nothing. What else has he had as far as weapons?

Fuller? Lol. A one trick pony. Doesn't know anything outside of a vert route. Slightly above average at best.
Cooks? He's not what he once was with NO. But was able to get 1100 yds this year.
Kenny Stills? Average at best
David Johnson? Nowhere near where he was with Arizona.
Duke Johnson? Average at best.
Atkins/Fells? Average TEs.
And lets not even get into how terrible of an oline hes had his whole career.

So where are all these weapons? No he's not Tom Brady, but he's still one of the top qbs in the game.

Take a look at the final 4 teams. Brady had nothing to do with anything of the acquisitions of the players who won that game. Mahomes, has had nothing to do with the construction of that team. We sure as hell know Rodgers has had nothing to with the Packers or they would drafted him a weapon in a decade. Allen doesn’t count for the argument because this is his first season where his play has even given the idea of possibly having input. So you are factually wrong that a QB is anywhere near a star NBA player. We have seen countless mediocre QB’s get hot and win a Super Bowl, you have never seen a mediocre basketball player get hot and lead his team to the finals.


TE’s is the offensive offensive skill position that Mahomes has had over Watson until this year. Until this year his receivers have always been superior than Hill. Watkins blew balls until he hooked up with Mahomes and still isn’t a top 30 WR. KC hasn’t had a RB worth a nickel with Mahomes until this year. Which is my argument, excluding this season. Up until this season what is different between Watson and Matt Stafford when he had Calvin Johnson? I think they should trade him but I am hoping they show him his role and make him either retire or have to fine him his entire salary for being an entitled athlete.

 

[wazzu31]

It's hard to evaluate a QB with a shitty management and having a bad OL pretty much his entire career...all that being said, I'm not saying he is Tom Brady but that still doesn't mean he isn't a franchise QB AND most importantly he is the most valuable player on the Texans. You consult with your best player, plain and simple, and that doesn't mean you need to consult with him about everything but a HC or OC is a pretty big deal when you are talking about our QB, let alone your franchise QB. I don't care what sport we are talking about. Baseball might be an exception but NBA and NFL are totally different in my eyes especially nowadays.

Sure, this is a weird analogy but Russell Wilson has done it throughout his career with a terrible offensive line and shitty management when it comes to offense. Russ has been vocal about not liking the firing of his two OC’s but he hasn’t cried that he hasn’t had a say in the hiring of a new one and no one in their right mind would choose Watson over Wilson.

I don’t disagree at all that they shouldn’t have consulted with him or asked him who he wants as HC. But the Texans haven’t even passed on Bienemy yet or another minority HC or OC. If the Texans do, ok, whine to the media and make an issue. But this is like a 8 year old girl throwing a fit that she didn’t get a car for her birthday party.

If anything Watson should be happy as hell his GM isn’t his choice for when Bienemy fails. Bienemy has been put on such a fictitious pedestal that there is zero chance he will live up to the hype and Watson or any advocate for him needs someone else to take the blame.

 

[RubinRock]

Take a look at the final 4 teams. Brady had nothing to do with anything of the acquisitions of the players who won that game. Mahomes, has had nothing to do with the construction of that team. We sure as hell know Rodgers has had nothing to with the Packers or they would drafted him a weapon in a decade. Allen doesn’t count for the argument because this is his first season where his play has even given the idea of possibly having input. So you are factually wrong that a QB is anywhere near a star NBA player. We have seen countless mediocre QB’s get hot and win a Super Bowl, you have never seen a mediocre basketball player get hot and lead his team to the finals.


TE’s is the offensive offensive skill position that Mahomes has had over Watson until this year. Until this year his receivers have always been superior than Hill. Watkins blew balls until he hooked up with Mahomes and still isn’t a top 30 WR. KC hasn’t had a RB worth a nickel with Mahomes until this year. Which is my argument, excluding this season. Up until this season what is different between Watson and Matt Stafford when he had Calvin Johnson? I think they should trade him but I am hoping they show him his role and make him either retire or have to fine him his entire salary for being an entitled athlete.

With regards to your first paragraph, my point wasn’t that all of those guys have had a major say in acquisitions. It was that it takes great qb play in today’s league to get to the end. Like Josh Allen is this year. Because of that, qbs will get more and more say in acquisitions of coaches or players. Also Aaron Rodgers 100% had a say in the HC. All the talk about leading up to it was the packers wanted to find a coach who could “intellectually challenge” Rodgers. Brady has had say in the past. He wanted Josh McDaniels. He also got Gronk and Brown on the team. You’re absolutely crazy if you think they won’t talk to Mahomes about OC this offseason if Bienemy leaves.

Your absolutely crazy if you think Deshaun has had better weapons. Not only is Kelsey an “advantage over Deshaun”, he’s the best damn TE in the game arguably. Hill is definitely a top 10 WR. Watkins is above average. Demarcus Robinson has been a solid back up. I agree they haven’t had great rb play until this year but it hasn’t been any worse than the Texans. Hyde was ok. Miller was solid. David Johnson is not his old self. Mahomes has had Kareem Hunt and Clyde Helaire two of his three seasons.

The difference between Stafford with Calvin and Deshaun? Well Deshaun has actually won in the playoffs. And if it wasn’t for an O’Brien and defensive collapse last year, was in a position to make a deep run.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Sure, this is a weird analogy but Russell Wilson has done it throughout his career with a terrible offensive line and shitty management when it comes to offense. Russ has been vocal about not liking the firing of his two OC’s but he hasn’t cried that he hasn’t had a say in the hiring of a new one and no one in their right mind would choose Watson over Wilson.

I don’t disagree at all that they shouldn’t have consulted with him or asked him who he wants as HC. But the Texans haven’t even passed on Bienemy yet or another minority HC or OC. If the Texans do, ok, whine to the media and make an issue. But this is like a 8 year old girl throwing a fit that she didn’t get a car for her birthday party.

If anything Watson should be happy as hell his GM isn’t his choice for when Bienemy fails. Bienemy has been put on such a fictitious pedestal that there is zero chance he will live up to the hype and Watson or any advocate for him needs someone else to take the blame.

Watson was playing at a high level and getting his team to the playoffs until they decided to trade away his star WR for scraps, I'm sure that didn't go over with him too well. I do think a team's goal is to make sure your franchise QB is happy and that is at least letting him know about some major coaching decisions...I think most would agree with that.
Also, how do you know he is whining? Have we actually heard Watson say this at a press conference. Everything gets out these days from social media, sources, etc. whether it is true or false. That's just how it is this day and age so I think people need to slow their roll on him acting like a baby and whining...the facts are this is a dysfunction franchise and there is no fixing it right now. Watson had enough of it and like I said, I don't blame him for the stupid moves and decisions the front office has made over the past couple years.

Most of these seem to be rumors at this point, all I am saying is if these rumors are true there is no way he will be a Texan next year especially knowing how the Texans handled their business in the past. TBH I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get full value out of this trade bc they are that bad.

 

[Shanemansj13]

With regards to your first paragraph, my point wasn’t that all of those guys have had a major say in acquisitions. It was that it takes great qb play in today’s league to get to the end. Like Josh Allen is this year. Because of that, qbs will get more and more say in acquisitions of coaches or players. Also Aaron Rodgers 100% had a say in the HC. All the talk about leading up to it was the packers wanted to find a coach who could “intellectually challenge” Rodgers. Brady has had say in the past. He wanted Josh McDaniels. He also got Gronk and Brown on the team. You’re absolutely crazy if you think they won’t talk to Mahomes about OC this offseason if Bienemy leaves.

Your absolutely crazy if you think Deshaun has had better weapons. Not only is Kelsey an “advantage over Deshaun”, he’s the best damn TE in the game arguably. Hill is definitely a top 10 WR. Watkins is above average. Demarcus Robinson has been a solid back up. I agree they haven’t had great rb play until this year but it hasn’t been any worse than the Texans. Hyde was ok. Miller was solid. David Johnson is not his old self. Mahomes has had Kareem Hunt and Clyde Helaire two of his three seasons.

The difference between Stafford with Calvin and Deshaun? Well Deshaun has actually won in the playoffs. And if it wasn’t for an O’Brien and defensive collapse last year, was in a position to make a deep run.

If people really don't think a franchise QB has a say in a HC, OC and QB coach I really don't know what to say LOL. A perfect example: Baker has a 2nd year QB and he wanted Kitchens as HC and they hired him (bad decision in this example lol), and that is a 2nd year QB. It's crazy people think otherwise.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Tom Brady got told "too bad" a lot.
Also seems the Packers are doing okay, despite what Aaron Rodgers has wanted.
he didnt want LaFleur as a head coach originally. but he is a grown ass man & did his job anyways. he wanted them to draft a player to help him on offense. The packers said nah! But he went out & did his job anyways. They were only the #1 seed this year.
Allowing QBs to make Front office decisions is how you become a shitty organization.
Patriots & Packers are living proof it is better to tell your star Qb to stay in their lane!

I never said they make the decisions, I said they go to the franchise QB and involve him...yes that is a thing. The QB doesn't make the final decision, I thought that was clear. You are acting like these franchise QB's just sit back and one day they are watching ESPN and they get a new coordinator. Sorry, that's not how it works! From rumors it sounds like that is what basically happened to Watson, so I get it.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I never said they make the decisions, I said they go to the franchise QB and involve him...yes that is a thing. The QB doesn't make the final decision, I thought that was clear. You are acting like these franchise QB's just sit back and one day they are watching ESPN and they get a new coordinator. Sorry, that's not how it works! From rumors it sounds like that is what basically happened to Watson, so I get it.

Listening to the opinion of your QB is one thing. Tom Brady & Aaron Rodgers. Both have dealt with team going against it.
If a team interviews a GM & wants to give them a contract. They dont say we would offer you a contract but we got to check with our QB 1st. Go ahead & go to your next interview. We will call you back.

 

[RubinRock]

Listening to the opinion of your QB is one thing. Tom Brady & Aaron Rodgers. Both have dealt with team going against it.
If a team interviews a GM & wants to give them a contract. They dont say we would offer you a contract but we got to check with our QB 1st. Go ahead & go to your next interview. We will call you back.

Who has said the qbs get to make the decision on the GMs? No one is even saying the qbs get to make the decisions on HC, OC, or players. We're saying they get a say in the matter.

 

[wazzu31]

Watson was playing at a high level and getting his team to the playoffs until they decided to trade away his star WR for scraps, I'm sure that didn't go over with him too well. I do think a team's goal is to make sure your franchise QB is happy and that is at least letting him know about some major coaching decisions...I think most would agree with that.
Also, how do you know he is whining? Have we actually heard Watson say this at a press conference. Everything gets out these days from social media, sources, etc. whether it is true or false. That's just how it is this day and age so I think people need to slow their roll on him acting like a baby and whining...the facts are this is a dysfunction franchise and there is no fixing it right now. Watson had enough of it and like I said, I don't blame him for the stupid moves and decisions the front office has made over the past couple years.

Most of these seem to be rumors at this point, all I am saying is if these rumors are true there is no way he will be a Texan next year especially knowing how the Texans handled their business in the past. TBH I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get full value out of this trade bc they are that bad.

I am not saying Watson isn’t a great player at all. But I just don’t see with his playoff performances the talk as though he is in Mahomes category. I agree they should want him happy, but him being happy with a GM shouldn’t be priority. But you are correct about actually hearing him speak besides some tweets that are well tweets. So I am going off of all the internet speak that are though as though Watson is a perennial Super Bowl contending QB to where he deserves to choose the GM and HC. The Browns gave Mayfield the controls of HC and how did that turn out. Plus I guess it is all internet stuff that makes it appears Watson is being an entitled asshole athlete over him wanting Bienemy.

I have totally admitted the Texans seem to be a jacked up organization. Which is why I wouldn’t mind if they just said screw it, and call his bluff. They aren’t going to win regardless of the haul they get for him anyway.

 

[DJ Fieri]

He officially requested a trade after the Texans hired Culley.

 

[Shanemansj13]

He officially requested a trade after the Texans hired Culley.

Yeah that confirms it like I thought...he will be traded.

 

[Wild Turkey]

He officially requested a trade after the Texans hired Culley.

Yeah that confirms it like I thought...he will be traded.

So what's the process here because I'm assuming Houston doesn't have to trade him but I also assume that Watson will probably do something stupid like threaten to sit out.

I don't recall this type of scenario before but I haven't followed the NFL that closely either.