Do FSU & Clemson Have A Landing Spot?

[huskers1217]

This is becoming an interesting question because the B1G does not seem interested:

Big Ten reportedly not interested in adding pair of premier ACC programs

If the Big Ten is looking to expand again, it apparently will not include a pair of premier ACC programs

sports.yahoo.com

The SEC does not seem interested:

Greg Sankey on future expansion: SEC can remain at 16 teams for 'a long, long time'

Greg Sankey comments on the SEC's role in potential future conference realignment at SEC Media Days.

www.saturdaydownsouth.com

There are even rumors that FSU and Clemson have had talks with the Big 12 which if true is pretty shocking. I think what we are seeing is that both the B1G and SEC realize that at their current size, it is going to be really hard to get additional money to pay new members and that there are only so many time slots available to air games.

Now all this could be smoke an mirrors so that it doesn't seem like they are tampering but when you weigh the pros and cons does additional expansion make sense? I honestly don't think it does.

The Big 12 talked included ND... so that right there tells me its bullshit

 

[huskers1217]

This is becoming an interesting question because the B1G does not seem interested:

Big Ten reportedly not interested in adding pair of premier ACC programs

If the Big Ten is looking to expand again, it apparently will not include a pair of premier ACC programs

sports.yahoo.com

The SEC does not seem interested:

Greg Sankey on future expansion: SEC can remain at 16 teams for 'a long, long time'

Greg Sankey comments on the SEC's role in potential future conference realignment at SEC Media Days.

www.saturdaydownsouth.com

There are even rumors that FSU and Clemson have had talks with the Big 12 which if true is pretty shocking. I think what we are seeing is that both the B1G and SEC realize that at their current size, it is going to be really hard to get additional money to pay new members and that there are only so bmany time slots available to air games.

Now all this could be smoke an mirrors so that it doesn't seem like they are tampering but when you weigh the pros and cons does additional expansion make sense? I honestly don't think it does.

B1G can't add them as they aren't AAU members. Nebraska wouldn't get in right now and its the reason Baylor hasn't jumped ship over there.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

I think the conversation changes drastically once FSU and Clemson leave the ACC. Once they become available, we will see how interested the Big Ten and SEC are. There are some smart people who think the FSU/Clemson to the Big 12 thing has legs. I'm honestly shocked by that but we'll see how it plays out.

Oh and FSU won't be in the ACC by 2026. Argue with your mommas

Yeah, they will be. They won't leave until the lawsuits are over, and that isn't happening for at 3-4 years. ACC has no incentive to settle.

The B12 stuff seems to be made up. I can't see such a lateral move. The only thing would be (1) adding them raised the B12 contract a ton, and (2) the other teams are prepared to give them larger shares. I don't see either of those being true.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

would it still be more than what they are making in the ACC? as far as I know the 2 conference are making about the same right now per school. so a move by those 2 would likely move the Big XII deal up

Even if this is true ... and I can't imagine the addition of those two teams adding the $120 million per year needed, nor the other teams giving it all to the two teams, why would the B12 want two teams that are (1) actively trying to destroy their conference, and (2) would jump in a second to move to the P2?

 

[CoalTrain]

SEC Votes Not To Add Texas A&M

The SEC has voted not to extend Texas A&M an invitation to join their conference in time for the 2012-2013 school year, according to reports. All signs pointed Friday to the Aggies being invited to...

dallas.sbnation.com

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

i would be interested to know what the value of the ACC would be today if it werent for the rediculous contract and GOR they are in would be. more than now? which would then be more than the Big XII. also wonder how much those 2 schools alone would add to the current Big XII

This is a common misperception ... the ACC contract is bad because they were terrible negotiators, it's bad because they are a bad football conference. And, it's gotten worse, not better. Before when markets dictated value, they were in solid markets. Now it's all about viewership and that does them no favors. I think they would find a re-negotiation would not be favorable to them.

 

[CoalTrain]

SEC and BIG do not have to be in a rush to get FSU,Clemson, Notre Dame or anybody else at this point because they are the place to be when it comes to financial security for your football program. They have new members coming in and will rightfully parade those new members into their new homes with all due hoopla, it’s the right thing to do.

That said, either one would be stupid to publicly say that they have interest or have an invite waiting ect. For those schools in the ACC as it could potentially lead to lawsuits but rest assured, FSU as well as some of the other desirable brands know that they have a spot in the Power 2 once they are free of their obligations to the ACC.

 

[Top Cat]

The Big 12 talked included ND... so that right there tells me its bullshit

Swaim is an idiot. Scheer saying something is more interesting.

 

[rfjeff9]

USF twitter is that stupid, yes.

Most of it is based on the idea that B1G wants into Florida and they are both a large school and have AAU status.

But no. They are crazy to think they are getting an invite.

 

[Wild Turkey]

This is a common misperception ... the ACC contract is bad because they were terrible negotiators, it's bad because they are a bad football conference. And, it's gotten worse, not better. Before when markets dictated value, they were in solid markets. Now it's all about viewership and that does them no favors. I think they would find a re-negotiation would not be favorable to them.

They aren't getting P2 money but with FSU, Clemson plus you get about 3 ND games a year they should be the 3rd highest paid conference.

Honestly, if Miami and Virginia Tech would get their act together and those markets would actually watch them play football (actually include UNC in that list as well) they could bring value. They are just the conference that can't get their shit together.

The ACC should have gone hard after Colorado because a Colorado vs Miami game would have captured the entire rapper community. People would probably get shot.

 

[Hu War Yu]

i would be interested to know what the value of the ACC would be today if it werent for the rediculous contract and GOR they are in would be. more than now? which would then be more than the Big XII. also wonder how much those 2 schools alone would add to the current Big XII

Good point about their value as of today without that monstrous GOR. As basketball leagues, they are quite comparable, both really solid. As football conferences, I'd give a slight nod to the ACC just based on CLemson's and FSU's prior championships. Nobody in the XII has such a history.

 

[Deep Creek]

The basic contradiction for me is this was never about competition, but about eyeballs, but it's also anti-competition. There is no universe where Indiana, Minnesota, [insert middling BIG school here] is more valuable than Florida State. Florida State doesn't fit as easily as people think when you factor in this was never about free competition and the creme of the crop per se. It's about money yes, but it's anti-competitive in nature.

Though I am sure lawyers will pout and say it's not anti-competitive or some ish.

Agree 100%. There are already several schools in tne B1G and SEC that really don’t merit the dollars they are deserving.

If it had been Iowa State and Texas Tech petitioning for admission to the SEC they’d have said no thanks.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

The basic contradiction for me is this was never about competition, but about eyeballs, but it's also anti-competition. There is no universe where Indiana, Minnesota, [insert middling BIG school here] is more valuable than Florida State. Florida State doesn't fit as easily as people think when you factor in this was never about free competition and the creme of the crop per se. It's about money yes, but it's anti-competitive in nature.

Though I am sure lawyers will pout and say it's not anti-competitive or some ish.

When you use the term "anti-competition" are you specifically discussing anti-trust law? Violations of the Sherman Act? I mean a conference telling a school they do or don't want them is not in any way illegal. All the anti-trust/anti-competitive stuff we've talked about is the players getting screwed over by the schools. One school being "screwed over" by other schools is something no one cares about. The conferences are selective for different reasons - the SEC wants southern flagship universities and don't really care all that much about academics. The B1G are snobs and want you to be good academically and want you in the AAU so that you are generating research dollars. Nothing illegal about any of that. Apologies if I misunderstood that.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Agree 100%. There are already several schools in tne B1G and SEC that really don’t merit the dollars they are deserving.

If it had been Iowa State and Texas Tech petitioning for admission to the SEC they’d have said no thanks.

Depends on how you look at it - Vandy is a founding member of the SEC, provides a W for most teams they play, and a great trip to Nashville for a game. They excel academically which has some value to the conference, and they are good at other sports.

The thing you always get wrong with this line of thought - it's a mainstay of your posting - is that there is a difference when you compare schools who are already in the club and those who are trying to get in. Sure FSU is more valuable than half the existing SEC, but the existing SEC teams are already in the club. FSU is on the outside looking in.

 

[Top Cat]

When you use the term "anti-competition" are you specifically discussing anti-trust law? Violations of the Sherman Act? I mean a conference telling a school they do or don't want them is not in any way illegal. All the anti-trust/anti-competitive stuff we've talked about is the players getting screwed over by the schools. One school being "screwed over" by other schools is something no one cares about. The conferences are selective for different reasons - the SEC wants southern flagship universities and don't really care all that much about academics. The B1G are snobs and want you to be good academically and want you in the AAU so that you are generating research dollars. Nothing illegal about any of that. Apologies if I misunderstood that.

It’s not illegal as far as I can tell as a layman. It is plain sight anti-competitive. I won’t argue it’s a violation of anti-trust law, however.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

It’s not illegal as far as I can tell as a layman. It is plain sight anti-competitive. I won’t argue it’s a violation of anti-trust law, however.

Okay, let me tell you why I don't think it's anti-competitive. I've stated this before here - if you get rid of Vandy, someone else has to become the Vandy in your new league.

Let's say we take the top 24 teams in CFP, past and present (you are welcome Gators), and make a super conference:

Alabama SEC
Auburn SEC
Florida SEC
Georgia SEC
LSU SEC
Oklahoma SEC
Ole Miss SEC
Tennessee SEC
Texas SEC
Texas A&M SEC
Michigan B1G
Michigan State B1G
Nebraska B1G
Ohio State B1G
Oregon B1G
Penn State B1G
UCLA B1G
USC B1G
Washington B1G
Wisconsin B1G
Notre Dame Indy
Clemson ACC
FSU ACC
Miami ACC

That looks great, right? Except you now have UCLA being Vandy and going 3-9. UF, AU, Nebraska, all 4-8. Then half the other teams will go 6-6. Your best teams will go 9-3. That sounds terrible.

Now, you have some great games for sure, but no one is voting for that nonsense.

So, having a mix of levels of competition in your league isn't anti-competitive, if you ask me. It makes for a more nationally competitive environment that will draw more eyes and be more fun. IMO.

 

[TheReal_NU]

. UF, AU, Nebraska, all 4-8.

Been there. Done that.
Sometimes.

 

[Deep Creek]

but the existing SEC teams are already in the club. FSU is on the outside looking in.

No, we are saying the same thing…almost. Yes, they were alteady in the “country club.” But, A&M, Mizzou, Texas and Oklahoma WEREN’T original “country club” members though so that reasoning doesn’t hold water imho.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

Been there. Done that.
Sometimes.

But every year, with no chance ever? No one wants that.

 

[TheReal_NU]

But every year, with no chance ever? No one wants that.

Seems like it.