Don't stick a fork in the ACC yet...

I'm not underestimating the ACC. The conference isn't good, and was way behind the SEC in the CFP era. Hell ND won something like 31 regular seasons games in a row against the ACC until losing to UL last year. You're underestimating how good those Clemson teams were. If they would have shown up and got blown out, like ND and OU(for the most part) you'd have a better point. But they took down Bama and OSU twice. And blew each of them once.
You keep highlighting one-off games as if playing an SEC or B1G schedule for the entire year is the same thing as beating a team once. It's not. The grind of better conferences wears you down. They don't get that in the ACC.
 
No doubt there are pros to being in an easier conference. The question becomes is it worth giving up the revenue difference to stay in that easier conference. Oklahoma dominated the easier path in the Big 12. They were willing to give up that dominance in a heartbeat in order to move. UCLA, Maryland, Rutgers, etal didn't even dominate and they were willing to give it up for the money.
Let's see what OU fans think about that if they don't stay in the top in the SEC. They should be able to, but we will see.

Now that I think about it some more and yours and other's responses, one other thing that Clemson and FSU are thinking about is that the $50 million difference gets spread out over all their sports. They won't be as dominant in football, but they will have money for all their other sports. That makes more sense.
 
Let's see what OU fans think about that if they don't stay in the top in the SEC. They should be able to, but we will see.

Now that I think about it some more and yours and other's responses, one other thing that Clemson and FSU are thinking about is that the $50 million difference gets spread out over all their sports. They won't be as dominant in football, but they will have money for all their other sports. That makes more sense.
I don’t think OU fans expect to dominate like they did in the Big 12. Some of those years they benefitted from crappy UT teams and a down Big 12 overall. Heck, OU hasn’t even dominated the Big 12 the past few years. But they’ll be competitive year in and year out in the SEC for sure.

And yes, moving into higher payout conferences has helped with facility improvement and non rev sports. Texas AD Del Conte said when he was at TCU that they wouldn’t have been able to do what they did w/o Big 12 revenue. Football was in decent shape prior to the move. Hell, it is my opinion that the 2010 team was better than the one that made the CFP. But the move helped out with everything.
 
You keep highlighting one-off games as if playing an SEC or B1G schedule for the entire year is the same thing as beating a team once. It's not. The grind of better conferences wears you down. They don't get that in the ACC.

This was Bama's schedule in 2018:

vs. Louisville
Arkansas State
5-7 Ole Miss
#16 Texas A&M
Louisiana
2-10 Arkansas
8-5 Missouri
5-7 Tennessee
#6 LSU
8-5 Miss State
Citadel
8-5 Auburn
UGA in the SECCG

Clemson is rolling through that schedule based on how good they were.
 
This was Bama's schedule in 2018:

vs. Louisville
Arkansas State
5-7 Ole Miss
#16 Texas A&M
Louisiana
2-10 Arkansas
8-5 Missouri
5-7 Tennessee
#6 LSU
8-5 Miss State
Citadel
8-5 Auburn
UGA in the SECCG

Clemson is rolling through that schedule based on how good they were.
And, again, Clemson that almost lost to Syracuse that year is going to get additional scares and they are going to get the shit beat out of them even if they win far more than they did against their pussy ACC schedule.

Here was their schedule - LOL - the two ranked teams they beat by a combined 6 points:

Furman
@ #16 TAMU
Ga Southern
@ Ga Tech
#15 Syracuse
Wake Forest
NC State
@FSU
Lousiville
@Boston College
Duke
USCjr
Pittsburgh (ACCG)

You seem offended as if I am saying that Clemson was not good. I have stated the contrary many times.
 
And, again, Clemson that almost lost to Syracuse that year is going to get additional scares and they are going to get the shit beat out of them even if they win far more than they did against their pussy ACC schedule.

Here was their schedule - LOL - the two ranked teams they beat by a combined 6 points:

Furman
@ #16 TAMU
Ga Southern
@ Ga Tech
#15 Syracuse
Wake Forest
NC State
@FSU
Lousiville
@Boston College
Duke
USCjr
Pittsburgh (ACCG)

You seem offended as if I am saying that Clemson was not good. I have stated the contrary many times.

Yeah, I never said they played a difficult schedule. But it's not like Bama played some murderers row. You said most of their success was because they played in a shitty conference. That's a shitty take given what they did outside of the conference. Between 2015 and 2020, they won 6 CFP games, swept a home and home with A&M, swept a home and home with Auburn, and went 5-0 against South Carolina. The SEC could have prevented them from winning both of their titles, and prevented them from making the CFP in general if they'd had beaten them. If my math is correct I think they were 11-4 against the SEC in that timeframe.
 
Yeah, I never said they played a difficult schedule. But it's not like Bama played some murderers row. You said most of their success was because they played in a shitty conference. That's a shitty take given what they did outside of the conference. Between 2015 and 2020, they won 6 CFP games, swept a home and home with A&M, swept a home and home with Auburn, and went 5-0 against South Carolina. The SEC could have prevented them from winning both of their titles, and prevented them from making the CFP in general if they'd had beaten them. If my math is correct I think they were 11-3 against the SEC in that timeframe.
You simply refuse to acknowledge the difference between playing an ACC slate and an SEC slate, and how that makes a difference at the end of the year. That's the point I have been clearly making, @Thiefery also made it. That's the beauty of playing in the ACC ... for example you get Pitt in the CCG, not UGA, Bama, LSU or the like. FSU got Lousiville last year while Bama and UGA played. That's the ACC for you.
 
You simply refuse to acknowledge the difference between playing an ACC slate and an SEC slate, and how that makes a difference at the end of the year. That's the point I have been clearly making, @Thiefery also made it. That's the beauty of playing in the ACC ... for example you get Pitt in the CCG, not UGA, Bama, LSU or the like. FSU got Lousiville last year while Bama and UGA played. That's the ACC for you.

I have acknowledged it several times. I have said the ACC was a shitty conference in most those years(if not all). I'm saying it wouldn't have mattered. You said their success is attributed to their easy schedule. I'm saying it's because they had NFL dudes all over the field, and elite QB play over that stretch. They clearly weren't a product of their schedule because they blasted OSU, ND, OU and Bama in CFP games. Playing on avg 1 more ranked opponent with an SEC schedule wouldn't have mattered given how elite they were.
 
You haven’t been paying attention. EVERY team in the SEC (and B1G according to Gorden Gee) plays a murderer’s row schedule. No hurry exceptions..
i get it's not a murderers row but so wasn't Clemson.. I think my 2005 Horns are the best team in my lifetime but even I wouldn't guarantee that they would have finished the season undefeated.. people just going by eye test.. same people had SC beating UT in the Rosebowl that season too
 
i get it's not a murderers row but so wasn't Clemson..
I was being a little sarcastic just to rag conference nutswingers. But not totally because some over exaggerate the difficulty just because of conference affiliation. No doubt Ohio State is more difficult to play than Oklahoma State. But Purdue isn’t any more difficult to play than Iowa State or West Virginia. But according to conference honks, Purdue is a “murderer”.

And I agree with you. You are correct, too many go by the eye test. Too many also go by perception and reputation.
 
I have acknowledged it several times. I have said the ACC was a shitty conference in most those years(if not all). I'm saying it wouldn't have mattered. You said their success is attributed to their easy schedule. I'm saying it's because they had NFL dudes all over the field, and elite QB play over that stretch. They clearly weren't a product of their schedule because they blasted OSU, ND, OU and Bama in CFP games. Playing on avg 1 more ranked opponent with an SEC schedule wouldn't have mattered given how elite they were.
You say you have acknowledged it but then you don't. Just say you don't believe that playing against tougher teams with better player each week can wear you down, cause injuries that you otherwise you don't get playing shitty teams with lesser players. Going into the CFP healthy instead of being beat up. Just say that isn't true because that is what you keep typing. And, that's the difference they are really going to see when they get into the P2.
 
You haven’t been paying attention. EVERY team in the SEC (and B1G according to Gorden Gee) plays a murderer’s row schedule. No hurry exceptions..
I am truly going to enjoy seeing what happens when some of the teams moving into the P2 have to play tougher schedules. You can call it being conference homers, I don't care. And I am addressing the SEC not the B1G because that is what I know. Each year the SEC:

- Gets the most of the best players
- Puts the most players in the NFL
- Has more ranked teams, and generally does better in OOC and bowl games (there are obvious swingers there, but it trends toward the SEC)
- Wins more NCs

So, yes, any team that doesn't play an SEC schedule dodges better players and tougher teams. That doesn't mean that the no. 9 SEC teams would beat the best team in the league ... that's true conference homerism. But it is simply objective fact that for the past 20 years the SEC has been deeper, more talented, and that means you get beat up more in that league than you do in others. So to ignore the fact that the Clemson NC teams played in the ACC isn't going to be a factor in the future if they move to a better conference is to ignore objective reality.

I know you hate it when SEC "fans" say this, and the dislikes, and bullshit votes from the same non-SEC posters will show that. But I believe that to be inarguable objective fact.
 
You say you have acknowledged it but then you don't. Just say you don't believe that playing against tougher teams with better player each week can wear you down, cause injuries that you otherwise you don't get playing shitty teams with lesser players. Going into the CFP healthy instead of being beat up. Just say that isn't true because that is what you keep typing. And, that's the difference they are really going to see when they get into the P2.

I have acknowledged that the ACC was an inferior conference. Did you know that between 2015 and 2020 Bama played 3 more ranked opponents than Clemson did? Again, Clemson, with their elite teams in 2015, 2016, and 2018 would have rolled through that league just like Bama did. I'll give you they were worse than LSU in 2019 because we saw it happen, but with that said they were still the 2nd best team in CFB. Is playing .5 more ranked teams per season really going to add a ton of wear and tear? According to the Colley Matrix(former BCS computer) Clemson had a tougher schedule in 2019, 2018 and 2017.

Again, Ive acknowledged the SEC as better, I'd be an idiot not too, but this notion about wear and tear bullshit by playing 3 more ranked teams over 6 seasons is ridiculous. But still my main point is those Clemson teams were loaded and it wouldn't have mattered who was on their schedule. Just like it didn't matter with Bama until 2019.
 
I am truly going to enjoy seeing what happens when some of the teams moving into the P2 have to play tougher schedules. You can call it being conference homers, I don't care. And I am addressing the SEC not the B1G because that is what I know. Each year the SEC:

- Gets the most of the best players
- Puts the most players in the NFL
- Has more ranked teams, and generally does better in OOC and bowl games (there are obvious swingers there, but it trends toward the SEC)
- Wins more NCs

So, yes, any team that doesn't play an SEC schedule dodges better players and tougher teams. That doesn't mean that the no. 9 SEC teams would beat the best team in the league ... that's true conference homerism. But it is simply objective fact that for the past 20 years the SEC has been deeper, more talented, and that means you get beat up more in that league than you do in others. So to ignore the fact that the Clemson NC teams played in the ACC isn't going to be a factor in the future if they move to a better conference is to ignore objective reality.

I know you hate it when SEC "fans" say this, and the dislikes, and bullshit votes from the same non-SEC posters will show that. But I believe that to be inarguable objective fact.
My argument isn’t the SEC isn’t the best conference. The facts like you listed prove it has been. My point is that playing an SEC (or B1G) schedule isn’t 100% murderer’s row like many make it out to be.

Out of curiosity, which teams new to the P2 are you going to enjoying seeing what happens to when they play the new P2 schedules? What are you expecting out of them?

USC? They haven’t been world beaters recently in the PAC. UCLA? They are already toward the bottom. Oregon? They’ve been competitive but not “elite” even in the PAC. Washington? Nice program and current run but also not “elite”. Texas? Until this year they hadn’t been all that great in the Big 12. OU hasn’t been their dominant self in a few years.

I don’t see any of them dominating their new conferences but they won’t consistently bring up the rear either. ( Maybe the Bruins)
 
My argument isn’t the SEC isn’t the best conference. The facts like you listed prove it has been. My point is that playing an SEC (or B1G) schedule isn’t 100% murderer’s row like many make it out to be.

Out of curiosity, which teams new to the P2 are you going to enjoying seeing what happens to when they play the new P2 schedules? What are you expecting out of them?

USC? They haven’t been world beaters recently in the PAC. UCLA? They are already toward the bottom. Oregon? They’ve been competitive but not “elite” even in the PAC. Washington? Nice program and current run but also not “elite”. Texas? Until this year they hadn’t been all that great in the Big 12. OU hasn’t been their dominant self in a few years.

I don’t see any of them dominating their new conferences but they won’t consistently bring up the rear either. ( Maybe the Bruins)
All of them. UT and OU will be interesting. We might all be surprised that the PAC was better than we thought, or maybe not.
 
I have acknowledged that the ACC was an inferior conference. Did you know that between 2015 and 2020 Bama played 3 more ranked opponents than Clemson did? Again, Clemson, with their elite teams in 2015, 2016, and 2018 would have rolled through that league just like Bama did. I'll give you they were worse than LSU in 2019 because we saw it happen, but with that said they were still the 2nd best team in CFB. Is playing .5 more ranked teams per season really going to add a ton of wear and tear? According to the Colley Matrix(former BCS computer) Clemson had a tougher schedule in 2019, 2018 and 2017.

Again, Ive acknowledged the SEC as better, I'd be an idiot not too, but this notion about wear and tear bullshit by playing 3 more ranked teams over 6 seasons is ridiculous. But still my main point is those Clemson teams were loaded and it wouldn't have mattered who was on their schedule. Just like it didn't matter with Bama until 2019.
This is laughable .. you are saying that all but 3 teams Clemson basically played the same schedule than had they been in the SEC. SMH. Moving along.
 
This is laughable .. you are saying that all but 3 teams Clemson basically played the same schedule than had they been in the SEC. SMH. Moving along.

You're acting like Bama played some gauntlet, compared to Clemson, when I just provided facts that that's not the case. If you refuse to accept those facts, I can't really help you. I'd move along too if I were you.

Anyway, we're moving further and further away from my original point, that it wouldn't have mattered. Clemson was that good and loaded.
 
I was being a little sarcastic just to rag conference nutswingers. But not totally because some over exaggerate the difficulty just because of conference affiliation. No doubt Ohio State is more difficult to play than Oklahoma State. But Purdue isn’t any more difficult to play than Iowa State or West Virginia. But according to conference honks, Purdue is a “murderer”.

And I agree with you. You are correct, too many go by the eye test. Too many also go by perception and reputation.
SEC homers are the worst.
 
You're acting like Bama played some gauntlet, compared to Clemson, when I just provided facts that that's not the case. If you refuse to accept those facts, I can't really help you. I'd move along too if I were you.

Anyway, we're moving further and further away from my original point, that it wouldn't have mattered. Clemson was that good and loaded.
You didn't provide any facts. All of your summary conclusions about playing ranked opponents, etc., don't come close to the facts that would indicate that Clemson had it way easier than had they been in the SEC. But digging into that deep enough to draw meaningful conclusions would take too much time. I think it's obvious, and you don't. So we'll have to leave it at that.
 
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