TV Series Hawkeye

[calsnowskier]

I thought this was the best of the bunch so far. I am disappointed that they decided to de-canonize the Netflix shows and make this Kingpin more “comic-booky”, but just because the show isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it wasn’t utterly enjoyable.

 

[calsnowskier]

FWIW, the MCU version of Kingpin seemed more closer to the comic version than the Netflix show. Fisk in the comics has some crazy strength. But I don't think you can say for sure its not the same. Like he was wearing the same cufflinks (which Kate used to flick at the arrows) that he did in the Netflix show.

Completely different character...

Netflix: Highly intelligent and the cultured tastes to go along with it
MCU: May be intelligent, but not the same level as was shown in the NF shows. This version is a powered street thug, not a political mover/shaker who rubs elbows with the elites.

NF: Has a cadence to his speech pattern, but does not have any special aspects to his voice outside of the slow, measured pace.
MCU: Has a similar cadence/pace, but has an animalistic growl to go along with it.

NF: Very properly dressed. His suits are perfectly tapered. His accessories are appropriate and not necessarily flashy. He is a large man, but not grossly over-sized.
MCU: His suits are ill-fitting, making him appear much larger than he actually is. This may have been done purely as a “camera trick” to make him appear more like the comic/animated version of him, but it was certainly in contrast to his NF fashion. He constantly wore flashy shirts (Hawaiian more often than not).

NF: No cane. No apparent need for one.
MCU: The cane was a key part of his ensemble and appeared to be needed. While he was powered-strong, he did seem to have some kind of limp or leg-hip issue. The cane was used in all the flashbacks as well, so it can be explained away as some kind of injury that was inflicted since the NF shows.

 

[Wild Turkey]

I thought this was the best of the bunch so far. I am disappointed that they decided to de-canonize the Netflix shows and make this Kingpin more “comic-booky”, but just because the show isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it wasn’t utterly enjoyable.

I didn't see anything that de-canonized the Netflix shows. That being said at some point one of those guys is going to get recast and they absolutely need to recast Iron Fist because that was a huge disappointment and I had high hopes after Daredevil.

 

[calsnowskier]

I didn't see anything that de-canonized the Netflix shows. That being said at some point one of those guys is going to get recast and they absolutely need to recast Iron Fist because that was a huge disappointment and I had high hopes after Daredevil.

It has been stated after I made that post that the Fisk from Hawkeye is, in fact, the same Fisk as the one from the NF shows.

But I don’t buy it. The two characters are VERY different. I hope they somehow address his major character changes, though I doubt they will.

 

[Wild Turkey]

It has been stated after I made that post that the Fisk from Hawkeye is, in fact, the same Fisk as the one from the NF shows.

But I don’t buy it. The two characters are VERY different. I hope they somehow address his major character changes, though I doubt they will.

I don't see the character being that much different. The Kingpin in Hawkeye can obviously take more punishment but that isn't a huge difference and I chalk it up to artistic license. The Marvel movie universe seems to lean towards increased capabilities in most of the heroes and I could probably list 10 examples of that.

I think a bigger complaint would be how Hawkeye seemed to take a step back in his abilities and seemed much more vulnerable than what we saw in the movies. Again its artistic license so not a huge deal.

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't see the character being that much different. The Kingpin in Hawkeye can obviously take more punishment but that isn't a huge difference and I chalk it up to artistic license. The Marvel movie universe seems to lean towards increased capabilities in most of the heroes and I could probably list 10 examples of that.

I think a bigger complaint would be how Hawkeye seemed to take a step back in his abilities and seemed much more vulnerable than what we saw in the movies. Again its artistic license so not a huge deal.

His power level is not what I am concerned about. That can be explained away by him getting his hands on on some super serum.

My problems are about the man‘s personality.

In the NF shows, he was very educated and prided himself as being part of high society. He took himself very seriously and wanted everyone to only see him as such. He was not a street-level actor at any point (maybe after he got out of prison things could have changed since “the cat was out of the bag”). His attire was always very well tapered. He always wore a black suit that fit like a glove. His accessories were very proper and appropriate.

In Hawkeye (and particularly in the flashbacks), he was kinda a mess. He made personal appearances all the time and got his own hands dirty at every turn. He may have been intelligent, but did not come across as high society. He acted like a street-level mob boss. He wore white, loose-fitting suits that seemed more off the rack than custom made. His accessories were loud and showed more personality. He had a cane that was a major part of his ensemble going back to when Echo was just a child (well before his DD time, where he NEVER had a cane).

 

[Wild Turkey]

His power level is not what I am concerned about. That can be explained away by him getting his hands on on some super serum.

My problems are about the man‘s personality.

In the NF shows, he was very educated and prided himself as being part of high society. He took himself very seriously and wanted everyone to only see him as such. He was not a street-level actor at any point (maybe after he got out of prison things could have changed since “the cat was out of the bag”). His attire was always very well tapered. He always wore a black suit that fit like a glove. His accessories were very proper and appropriate.

In Hawkeye (and particularly in the flashbacks), he was kinda a mess. He made personal appearances all the time and got his own hands dirty at every turn. He may have been intelligent, but did not come across as high society. He acted like a street-level mob boss. He wore white, loose-fitting suits that seemed more off the rack than custom made. His accessories were loud and showed more personality. He had a cane that was a major part of his ensemble going back to when Echo was just a child (well before his DD time, where he NEVER had a cane).

I see where you are going but you haven't calculated that Daredevil was before the blip and Hawkeye after. That changes everything and Kingpin probably had to rebuild his organization because he lost half the resources that he had.

 

[calsnowskier]

I see where you are going but you haven't calculated that Daredevil was before the blip and Hawkeye after. That changes everything and Kingpin probably had to rebuild his organization because he lost half the resources that he had.

But the flashbacks were pre-blip and pre DD. And he wore white, used the cane and was making street-level appearances.

The Fisk that was established in DD1 would not have sullied his hands or image by ever appearing at a street-level gang house (Fat Man Auto). DD1 made a BIG point of saying he wouldn’t wear white (that was part of the ”indignity” of having to wear white in prison) and that he was socially awkward. He never would have built a bond with a young deaf girl with 1 leg.

 

[Wild Turkey]

But the flashbacks were pre-blip and pre DD. And he wore white, used the cane and was making street-level appearances.

The Fisk that was established in DD1 would not have sullied his hands or image by ever appearing at a street-level gang house (Fat Man Auto). DD1 made a BIG point of saying he wouldn’t wear white (that was part of the ”indignity” of having to wear white in prison) and that he was socially awkward. He never would have built a bond with a young deaf girl with 1 leg.

Maybe you should step away from these shows for a while as you are WAY TOO invested. I'm scared to bring up the fact that there are at least 5 versions of Bruce Wayne active in the DC universe right now as it may cause you to go into depression.

My advice is just accept it's the same character that hasn't been fundamentally changed but only modified for the story and artistic license. You'll be much happier.

 

[calsnowskier]

Maybe you should step away from these shows for a while as you are WAY TOO invested. I'm scared to bring up the fact that there are at least 5 versions of Bruce Wayne active in the DC universe right now as it may cause you to go into depression.

My advice is just accept it's the same character that hasn't been fundamentally changed but only modified for the story and artistic license. You'll be much happier.

DC sucks. Their cinematic division is a complete shitshow. I gave up on the Arrow-verse a year or so ago, and have struggled getting through the latest Titans season (and haven’t even been tempted to start the new Doom Patrol season). I MIGHT watch the new John Cena show, but that is not a given at all. I don’t anticipate watching the new Batman movie at all, unless it falls in my lap somehow.

 

[jjc2009]

In the NF shows, he was very educated and prided himself as being part of high society. He took himself very seriously and wanted everyone to only see him as such. He was not a street-level actor at any point (maybe after he got out of prison things could have changed since “the cat was out of the bag”). His attire was always very well tapered. He always wore a black suit that fit like a glove. His accessories were very proper and appropriate.

He even cooked his own breakfast.

 

[calsnowskier]

He even cooked his own breakfast.

My point is that they made a very strong point of spelling out WHO Fisk was, as a person. They took a lot of time to meticulously describe his personality, his motives, his rituals. The Hawkeye version does not fit into any of those personality traits.


Again, eventually I will “accept it”, like how they constantly change Banner/Hulk’s personality and his motives and the same for Thor. I am just disappointed that they have decided to take Fisk in a much more comic-booky direction than how he was portrayed in the NF shows.

 

[jjc2009]

My point is that they made a very strong point of spelling out WHO Fisk was, as a person. They took a lot of time to meticulously describe his personality, his motives, his rituals. The Hawkeye version does not fit into any of those personality traits.


Again, eventually I will “accept it”, like how they constantly change Banner/Hulk’s personality and his motives and the same for Thor. I am just disappointed that they have decided to take Fisk in a much more comic-booky direction than how he was portrayed in the NF shows.

I wouldn’t worry. Dinofrio is going to play the part true to his DD performance. He was just there to bridge over to the Echo series where he’ll probably have a bigger role. Also if they try to bring daredevil back.