If You Were Hoping For CFP Expansion You’re Going To Have To Wait A Few Years

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

It’s pretty widely known he was a lazy recruiter there.

What is the excuse going to be when you get the exact same type of recruiting classes with this new staff?

Kelly left because he will bring in classes at LSU he'd never be able to bring in at ND. Not because he is lazy, but because LSU has a ton of elite recruits in state.

 

[NewPhoneWhoDis]

lazy?

The blue bloods without the rich talent base of elite recruits in state come up with entertaining excuses as to why they don't/can't recruit like the select few who can.

ND i guess they are lazy

Michigan - we blame academics

OU - they blame the defensive coordinator

Nebraska - blames each coach that is hired

Reality is -- none of those schools will ever be able to recruit like Bama, Georgia, etc. because they don't have multiple 5 star recruits a year in state, they don't have 5, 6, 7 top100 recruits a year in state. They aren't surrounded by talent rich states where they can pick off one or two elite recruits.

It is entertaining to listen to the fans make new excuses though. The lazy excuse is a new one. So props to ND fans for keeping the excuses fresh

 

[jjc2009]

What is the excuse going to be when you get the exact same type of recruiting classes with this new staff?

Kelly left because he will bring in classes at LSU he'd never be able to bring in at ND. Not because he is lazy, but because LSU has a ton of elite recruits in state.

You mean classes like this?


They finished with the #7 247 composite class this year. Kelly was pretty consistently just outside the top 10 most of his tenure. So what changed? Let’s see. Must be the new head coach who’s first year on staff was this season. Maybe it’s the guy who has made it pretty clear recruiting is his top priority.

If it took Kelly this long to realize he could recruit easier elsewhere then that’s not a compliment for Kelly.

Beyond your ND hate it’s pretty clear you know nothing about this team.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

You mean classes like this?

View attachment 62534
They finished with the #7 247 composite class this year. Kelly was pretty consistently just outside the top 10 most of his tenure. So what changed? Let’s see. Must be the new head coach who’s first year on staff was this season. Maybe it’s the guy who has made it pretty clear recruiting is his top priority.

If it took Kelly this long to realize he could recruit easier elsewhere then that’s not a compliment for Kelly.

Beyond your ND hate it’s pretty clear you know nothing about this team.

- I really like your new coach.
- You are off to a great start for 2023.
- It's way to early to be pointing at 2023 classes ... UGA and ND are at the top because of quantity. Even though both have great players, too, it's too early. I know we are going to lose a couple off that list.

 

[Thiefery]

Yes. Except for maybe his first couple of years he was hardly ever directly involved. A few blue chippers said ND was late to the game in their recruiting. Some commits said they never spoke to him directly

They all say that.. there's a long list of players that said the same for Texas.. They got upset because they felt the offer was too late. Kids want offers now, they don't care about evaluations lol

You mean classes like this?

View attachment 62534
They finished with the #7 247 composite class this year. Kelly was pretty consistently just outside the top 10 most of his tenure. So what changed? Let’s see. Must be the new head coach who’s first year on staff was this season. Maybe it’s the guy who has made it pretty clear recruiting is his top priority.

If it took Kelly this long to realize he could recruit easier elsewhere then that’s not a compliment for Kelly.

Beyond your ND hate it’s pretty clear you know nothing about this team.

That's a good sign, but are we really going to use this as an example when it's still February?

 

[OlyDuck]

What was proposed is:

- 1st round is on campus of teams 5-8, playing 12-9. Likely the second or third week of December.

I still dont like this part.
going to a bowl is a big deal. on one hand the 5-8 get to just play at home. if they lose thats it. that was the culmination of the season.
6-12 get a trip but probably not the same fan fair and such.
rather a trip to the Alamodome, or Petcopark or Yankee Stadium or an NFL stadium

 

[jjc2009]

- I really like your new coach.
- You are off to a great start for 2023.
- It's way to early to be pointing at 2023 classes ... UGA and ND are at the top because of quantity. Even though both have great players, too, it's too early. I know we are going to lose a couple off that list.

True. Don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched. But I’d be surprised (barring any flips) that ND ends up outside the top 5 with this class.

But the point I am making is Freeman has made recruiting a very specific emphasis for him and the staff he hires. He may end up not being as good a CEO type as Kelly. He may even (gasp) he not as good a game day coach. But he has the energy and drive to sell the school on the top talent and not just cede it like his predecessor. People scoffing at the idea that Kelly wasn’t big on recruiting simply don’t know what they’re talking about.

 

[jjc2009]

They all say that.. there's a long list of players that said the same for Texas.. They got upset because they felt the offer was too late. Kids want offers now, they don't care about evaluations lol

That's a good sign, but are we really going to use this as an example when it's still February?

I don’t have any data points beyond this class and next years. Freeman has only been on staff a year and head coach for a couple of months.

 

[Deep Creek]

I still dont like this part.
going to a bowl is a big deal. on one hand the 5-8 get to just play at home. if they lose thats it. that was the culmination of the season.
6-12 get a trip but probably not the same fan fair and such.
rather a trip to the Alamodome, or Petcopark or Yankee Stadium or an NFL stadium

Screw the bowls...especially the arrogant Rose Bowl. If a trip is desired do like Harbaugh and haul 'em to Italy for spring practice.....errrr, I mean an educational trip.

 

[Thiefery]

True. Don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched. But I’d be surprised (barring any flips) that ND ends up outside the top 5 with this class.

But the point I am making is Freeman has made recruiting a very specific emphasis for him and the staff he hires. He may end up not being as good a CEO type as Kelly. He may even (gasp) he not as good a game day coach. But he has the energy and drive to sell the school on the top talent and not just cede it like his predecessor. People scoffing at the idea that Kelly wasn’t big on recruiting simply don’t know what they’re talking about.

They will end up outside the top 5 unless they get at least 1 5 star in a 30 player class.

FL is loaded this class the way Texas was last cycle. It's going to be a war between the new UF/Miami staff down there. CA is also pretty loaded as well.. Let's see if Freeman can work some magic in those two states.

I'm not a ND hater or anything but I don't think it's fair to call BK lazy, especially coming off his two predecessors at ND. I feel BK at LSU his first class will be ranked higher than ND under Freeman, and I tend to be bullish that BK will have his best class ever in his first cycle at LSU.

Time will tell.

 

[Thiefery]

Screw the bowls...especially the arrogant Rose Bowl. If a trip is desired do like Harbaugh and haul 'em to Italy for spring practice.....errrr, I mean an educational trip.

yankee stadium for a bowl game looked like it sucked.. Alamo bowl has better swag bags for the players too

 

[jjc2009]

They will end up outside the top 5 unless they get at least 1 5 star in a 30 player class.

Could happen any day if Daunte Moore pills the trigger. They currently have 2 5* commits.

 

[jjc2009]

I'm not a ND hater or anything but I don't think it's fair to call BK lazy, especially coming off his two predecessors at ND. I feel BK at LSU his first class will be ranked higher than ND under Freeman, and I tend to be bullish that BK will have his best class ever in his first cycle at LSU.

Well he wasn’t a better recruiter than Weis. He inherited a lot of talent from Weis. You or I could out-recruit Ty “when’s my tee time” Willingham so that’s not a high bar. Outside the 2022 class maybe his best ever was 2011 and 2013. The rest were but top program standards, mediocre.

 

[outofyourmind]

OU - they blame the defensive coordinator

I thought this was obvious to everyone.
That's what everyone was telling us for years.

 

[Thiefery]

Well he wasn’t a better recruiter than Weis. He inherited a lot of talent from Weis. You or I could out-recruit Ty “when’s my tee time” Willingham so that’s not a high bar. Outside the 2022 class maybe his best ever was 2011 and 2013. The rest were but top program standards, mediocre.

i looked back and I did see that Weiss had 3 top 10 classes (which 2 were top 5). His lowest class was 15.

However, even though BK had just 1 top 5 class at ND.. he had a lot more players drafted to the NFL than those Weiss classes. Doing a rough number estimate.. 17 players off those 4 classes of Weiss were drafted in the NFL. If we do the same first 4 BK cycles, he had 21 players drafted in the NFL. But look at the '19-'21 NFL drafts alone.. BK had 20 players drafted..

While Weiss certainly brought some talent in.. To me it looks like BK was the better evaluator despite the differences in rankings.

Time will tell, but just as an outsider, BK was actually underrated at ND

 

[Thiefery]

I thought this was obvious to everyone.
That's what everyone was telling us for years.

That's old news, the offensive coaching declined and was the reason why they struggled this past season. Can't expect the defense to carry the team over and over

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

True. Don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched. But I’d be surprised (barring any flips) that ND ends up outside the top 5 with this class.

But the point I am making is Freeman has made recruiting a very specific emphasis for him and the staff he hires. He may end up not being as good a CEO type as Kelly. He may even (gasp) he not as good a game day coach. But he has the energy and drive to sell the school on the top talent and not just cede it like his predecessor. People scoffing at the idea that Kelly wasn’t big on recruiting simply don’t know what they’re talking about.

I've been impressed with him since his days at Cincy. He's a sharp dude, got good training.

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

I still dont like this part.
going to a bowl is a big deal. on one hand the 5-8 get to just play at home. if they lose thats it. that was the culmination of the season.
6-12 get a trip but probably not the same fan fair and such.
rather a trip to the Alamodome, or Petcopark or Yankee Stadium or an NFL stadium

The home games is one of the coolest parts of the 12 CFP. The excitement of having home games in the playoff? Also, you have to do this as people just can't afford to travel to CC, Rnd1, Rd2, Semis, Finals ... that's 5 trips, most on very little advance notice.

Also, there is some thought that the losers of Round1 would be able to play in a Bowl game.

 

[OlyDuck]

The home games is one of the coolest parts of the 12 CFP. The excitement of having home games in the playoff? Also, you have to do this as people just can't afford to travel to CC, Rnd1, Rd2, Semis, Finals ... that's 5 trips, most on very little advance notice.

Also, there is some thought that the losers of Round1 would be able to play in a Bowl game.

as we mentioned before tho most 5-12 teams wont be in the cc games anyway

 

[WhosYourDawggy]

as we mentioned before tho most 5-12 teams wont be in the cc games anyway

Actually, many will have been and will have lost. UGA this last year would have been the no. 5, and we lost the SEC. OkStU would have and they lost. tOSU would be a good example of a team that didn't play in the CC and would get in. Same with Ole Miss.

It's interesting, the home game scenario was actually one of the most popular parts of the proposal. You're the first I've seen that doesn't like that.

FWIW, here is the scenario applied to this past year:

This is what you would have had in round 1 this year:

Byes to Bama, Michigan, Cincy and Baylor.

Pitt @ UGA
Utah @ ND
Mich State @ tOSU
OkState @ Ole Miss

First, those are way more interesting as they are 4 home field games in the second week of December. They would all have been better games than any bowl games that were played. Our game might not have been competitive, but we are the outlier as the best team but laid an egg in the SECCG.

The second round would have been in the Sugar, Peach, Rose, and Fiesta:

Bama v. winner OkState @ Ole Miss (Peach)
Michigan v. winner Mich State @ tOSU (Rose)
Cincy v. winner Utah @ ND (Fiesta)
Baylor v. Pitt @ UGA (Sugar)

Bama and UGA probably win easily
The other two games are likely very competitive.

That means that so far we would have had 8 games, at least 5 would have been competitive.

Semis would have been:

Bama v. UGA (Cotton)
tOSU v. Utah (Orange)

Having our game as a semi would have been a let down, but the winner would have take on tOSU which would have been a great game, I am guessing.

UGA v. tOSU - UGA National Champs. (IndY)

That is actually an exciting playoff right there, with way more competitive games than you get with the 4 team plus NY6 bowl games with people opting out.