More Michigan Cheating

ellupo said:
Wrong. They used an illegal method to steal signs. See all relevant.
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...and probably other information. Their violation was in person scouting. Scouting being an all encompassing term on purpose.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
But that isn't the argument. Sign stealing is irrelevant. Sign stealing is legal.

In person scouting by coaches is illegal, irrelevant of what information is being gathered.
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But they were filming what - other teams cheerleaders?

Sign stealing is completely relevant, it’s just a matter of how and when/where it was done. We aren’t discussing stolen popcorn and hot dogs here. For Petes sake!
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
Sign stealing is legal. In person scouting is illegal.

There's a discussion to be had here but there's too much trolling on both sides to actually have it. Michigan didn't commit an NCAA infraction relating to sign stealing, it's being framed that way for clicks and it absolutely is not that. If Michigan committed an NCAA violation it's in their use of in-person scouts. Now, the NCAA rules are vague at best. Which leads to the discussion part. Is it a violation of the NCAA rule to have a staff member buy tickets to give to other unaffiliated people to go to games and film them. THAT is the question in all of this. THAT is the potential violation. It certainly violates the ethics of the rule but there is, at best, ambiguity in if it actually is a violation and what are the ramifications of 1. making it a violation and 2. what would the punishments be.

This has, and will never have, anything to do with sign stealing. The "WHAT" being gathered at the game is absolutely irrelevant here. Because, in reality, what was being gathered was probably more than just information about signs.
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There are actually 2 violations.

1) In-person scouting of a future opponent.
2) Using electronic means to video the future opponents sideline to steal their signals.
 
Red_Alert said:
There are actually 2 violations.

1) In-person scouting of a future opponent.
2) Using electronic means to video the future opponents sideline to steal their signals.
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#2 has been readily disproven at this point -- in terms of the context of these allegations. Unless there are entirely new ones, this would not apply. That only relates to IN GAME. "Sign stealing does not violate NCAA rules unless the team uses in-game, electronic equipment to relay the information to players on the field or amongst coaches. "

Michigan did not do this (at least according to any of the allegations we're talking about).
 
osubuckeye89 said:
The “sign stealing is legal so it shouldn’t matter how it’s done” argument is equal to arguing that drunk driving should be ok because driving is legal.
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Judge: You are accused of reckless driving for racing on Elm Street. How do you plead.

Perp: Innocent. Racing is legal at Daytona Speedway.
 
Red_Alert said:
There are actually 2 violations.

1) In-person scouting of a future opponent.
2) Using electronic means to video the future opponents sideline to steal their signals.
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Link to #2. Let's see it.
 
Red_Alert said:
Judge: You are accused of reckless driving for racing on Elm Street. How do you plead.

Perp: Innocent. Racing is legal at Daytona Speedway.
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No, it's more like -- accusing a person operating a car legally on the road, with all the necessary credentials, of illegally operating a vehicle because they stole the tires.
 
Huskers4me said:
He wants a huge sausage link to his #2? :noidea:
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Shredding Jerk Off GIF by hamlet
 
"Sign stealing isn't illegal, it actually happens at every program, but what's not allowed is sending scouts to watch opponents on the current year's schedule, or using electronic devices to communicate the sign stealing."

www.si.com

Jim Harbaugh Issues Statement Regarding Sign-Stealing Allegation

The Michigan football head coach issued a statement regarding the NCAA allegations.
www.si.com www.si.com

i.e. The "in-person" gathered video (using an electronic device) was 'communicated' to and used by the Michigan football program.
If the perps would have verbally reported back what they saw, there would only be the one "scouting" violation. In this case there are at least 2 violations.

Not to mention even Harbaugh states there is an "illegal" means of stealing signals.

"I do not have any knowledge or information regarding the University of Michigan football program illegally stealing signals, nor have I directed any staff member or others to participate in an off-campus scouting assignment. I have no awareness of anyone on our staff having done that or having directed that action."
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
There absolute is. And we discussed this yesterday. The assumption that a section applies to anyone would make it illegal for you and I to film anything at a CFB game. It would make it illegal for any "insiders" to go to games. And I think we can both agree that the section does not apply in that sense. The sub-sections very clearly mention what university affiliated staff, and the very easy assumption to argue is that the main section is then dealing with what those same staff can't do.
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Just so we're clear, you think that Stalions buying all these tickets and sending people to illegally film games of teams on michigan's upcoming schedule and michigan using this film to steal signs will not be deemed a violation? I just need to hear you admit you are actually that stupid.
 
From the Detroit Free Press....

"The Wolverines are under NCAA investigation again, this time because of alleged sign-stealing using in person scouts at other Big 10 games in violation of NCAA rules. It reportedly also includes video evidence of electronics used to steal signs, which is prohibited."

Once again.... There are 2 separate violations minimum.
 
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