More Michigan Cheating

Across The Field said:
New day, new spin from MnB. A tale as old as time. Tell me, where in the rule regarding the use of illegal recording equipment does it say "this does not pertain to instances of illegal in-person scouting of future opponents; it's totally fine then"?
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Under Prohibited Field Equipment ARTICLE 11 section H
Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited
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The entire section deals with what teams are allowed, and not allowed, to do during a game in terms of the equipment used. It has nothing to do with using video equipment at an opposing teams' game. The only reason this would apply is if Michigan had the same people at Michigan games recording the opposing team's signs; which, isn't necessarily out of the question but hasn't been accused as far as I know.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
And what I'm telling you is that this bylaw relates to in-game recording while the teams are playing. IE Michigan playing rutgers and using equipment to record/steal signs in-game.
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Once again you are reading into things that are not there.

Yes the bylaw does reference games in which the perp team is actively playing.

However, this final rule (h.) in the bylaw is a blanket statement.

Page 28 Article 11 'Prohibited Field Equipment'
h. "Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited."


Future opponents would fall under "Any attempt" and "opposing player, coach or other team personnel"
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:

Under Prohibited Field Equipment ARTICLE 11 section H


The entire section deals with what teams are allowed, and not allowed, to do during a game in terms of the equipment used. It has nothing to do with using video equipment at an opposing teams' game. The only reason this would apply is if Michigan had the same people at Michigan games recording the opposing team's signs; which, isn't necessarily out of the question but hasn't been accused as far as I know.
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Although I think this is pointless, where does it say in Article 11 that this rule only applies for the current game that a team is playing?
 
Red_Alert said:
Once again you are reading into things that are not there.

Yes the bylaw does reference games in which the perp team is actively playing.

However, this final rule (h.) in the bylaw is a blanket statement.

Page 28 Article 11 'Prohibited Field Equipment'
h. "Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited."


Future opponents would fall under "Any attempt" and "opposing player, coach or other team personnel"
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ellupo said:
Although I think this is pointless, where does it say in Article 11 that this rule only applies for the current game that a team is playing?
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The entire section is dealing with this:
ARTICLE 11 Jurisdiction regarding the presence and location of communication equipment (cameras, sound devices, etc) within the playing enclosure resides with game management personnel
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It's entirely about the rules imposed on home stadium management teams. Again, it would be a hell of a stretch to apply that in the current situation. Again, if Michigan had one of our "spies" in the stadium at Michigan games....I think THAT would apply here, but otherwise this section wouldn't apply to the situation we're being accused of.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
There's no spin cycle. That rule very specifically cites in-game stealing of the opponent. You'd have to really stretch that one to suggest it was meaning in-game stealing during illegal in-person scouting of future opponents. The intent of that rule is clear, and it's meant to prevent teams from using equipment to steal signs in game and then communicate with on-field staff.
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"h." is a blanket statement meant to cover any other nefarious actions.

"h. Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signalsgiven by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited."
 
Red_Alert said:
"h." is a blanket statement meant to cover any other nefarious actions.

"h. Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signalsgiven by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited."
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Again, this is a subsection. Meaning it applies to and relates to the heading. It isn't a stand alone section without prior context. This is a subsection to this:
ARTICLE 11 Jurisdiction regarding the presence and location of communication equipment (cameras, sound devices, etc) within the playing enclosure resides with game management personnel
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
The entire section is dealing with this:

It's entirely about the rules imposed on home stadium management teams. Again, it would be a hell of a stretch to apply that in the current situation. Again, if Michigan had one of our "spies" in the stadium at Michigan games....I think THAT would apply here, but otherwise this section wouldn't apply to the situation we're being accused of.
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Where does it say that? I see a blanked stated that said communication equipment is for game management personnel only. No where does it get into whos' game or who is playing or what stadium.
 
Handicappers said:
“Vegas pulled the Michigan line off the board. They don’t do that for no reason “

”but it’s their bye week”

DerRrr
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B(u)ying more tickets to opponent vs opponent games?
 
ellupo said:
Where does it say that? I see a blanked stated that said communication equipment is for game management personnel only. No where does it get into whos' game or who is playing or what stadium.
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It's a subsection. It, by definition, isn't a "blank slate". It relates to the section it's a sub-section of.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
The entire section is dealing with this:

It's entirely about the rules imposed on home stadium management teams. Again, it would be a hell of a stretch to apply that in the current situation. Again, if Michigan had one of our "spies" in the stadium at Michigan games....I think THAT would apply here, but otherwise this section wouldn't apply to the situation we're being accused of.
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The title is "Prohibited Field Equipment".

Not 'Prohibited Field Equipment exclusively at home stadiums"

"h." is closure and is a blanket statement (catch-all) for any nefarious actions anywhere using electronic devices to monitor communications of an opposing team.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
It's a subsection. It, by definition, isn't a "blank slate". It relates to the section it's a sub-section of.
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So you cannot point to where the words are that you are saying are there. you are just trying to infer the meaning without any written rule. I got it.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
Again, this is a subsection. Meaning it applies to and relates to the heading. It isn't a stand alone section without prior context. This is a subsection to this:
ARTICLE 11 Jurisdiction regarding the presence and location of communication equipment (cameras, sound devices, etc) within the playing enclosure resides with game management personnel
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Great..

The "heading" is "Prohibited Field Equipment".

Not..... 'Prohibited Field Equipment at home stadiums"
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:
Sounds like you just reworded what I said. In person scouting is illegal, and is illegal for more reasons than sign stealing. Sign stealing is legal.
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Everything you've been typing is nonsense and your words right here prove it.

You admit that in-person scouting is illegal, and you admit it is illegal to steal signs when you are scouting.

That is exactly what your team did.

Thanks for wrapping that up for us.
 
WhosYourDawggy said:
Everything you've been typing is nonsense and your words right here prove it.

You admit that in-person scouting is illegal, and you admit it is illegal to steal signs when you are scouting.

That is exactly what your team did.

Thanks for wrapping that up for us.
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All information is illegal to steal via in person scouting....THAT is my point. That doesn't make the thing they're using it for illegal. If Michigan gained information about formations in the same visits, that doesn't mean formation scouting is illegal.

The question is whether or not sending someone unaffiliated with the University counts as in person scouting.
 
MAIZEandBLUE09 said:

Under Prohibited Field Equipment ARTICLE 11 section H


The entire section deals with what teams are allowed, and not allowed, to do during a game in terms of the equipment used. It has nothing to do with using video equipment at an opposing teams' game. The only reason this would apply is if Michigan had the same people at Michigan games recording the opposing team's signs; which, isn't necessarily out of the question but hasn't been accused as far as I know.
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So nowhere anywhere does it say "use of illegal recording means are completely OK when illegally scouting future opponents". Thank you for clarifying.
 
NewPhoneWhoDis said:
You are right -- maybe Georgia is the one team in all of CFB who doesn't try to steal the signs during a game :facepalm:
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You have a reading comprehension problem. It is fine to try and steal during a game. That's not what is alleged here. For someone who kept trying to explain to us all day yesterday what the issues are, it's funny you don't seem to get it. No other team has a guy like this guy who had an operation of attending games of future opponents for the purpose of video-taping the sidelines so that they could create signal charts. That's because that's not allowed for a variety of reasons. So, no, we don't have one of those guys who is cheating his ass off.
 
I've gotta say, these mental gymnastics we've gotten in this thread from @MAIZEandBLUE09 and @NewPhoneWhoDis, is truly some top-shelf word-twistery! I am beyond entertained

Tom Cruise Laughing GIF by JustViral
 
ellupo said:
I have the best pearls. The most manly pearls. If you were to see my pearls you would drop to your knees and bow at the power of my pearls.
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Pics or it didn’t happen.
 
Red_Alert said:
Great..

The "heading" is "Prohibited Field Equipment".

Not..... 'Prohibited Field Equipment at home stadiums"
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During games, that your team is hosting. The entire thing has to do with the responsibility and legality for the home field team in what they can and cannot do.

If Michigan broke an NCAA rule, it's in person scouting. It isn't double illegal because he used a phone to do it.
 
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